Thanks for that. I disagree with Chan on a lot of things but this is really good. Sometimes we get wrapped up in the preacher, priest, whatever rather than the worship and adoration of Christ. And think of the harmony and unity if we truly looked at each other as members of the same body of Christ.

Podcast Where Francis Chan clarifies recent statements, apologizes, and provides future outlook.

Listened to this early this morning and enjoyed this nuanced understanding and explanation from Chan.

Interesting clip. Many interesting questions, such as, why did no one question this for 1500 years? Is it because man was living by bread alone? The lack of questioning apparently went so far that Aquinas even had to call Jesus a liar in order to justify the doctrine. Had no one else considered the implications of an omnipresent physical body?

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At some point even the most ardent protestant, if he is intellectually honest, will have to resolve the cognitive dissonance that flows from professing to be Christian while pretending that the first 1,500 years of Christian history never happened

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I guess it's a good thing that no ardent protestant pretends it never happened. I think Chan was being a little loose with language as well. I think it was something he intellectually knew, but never really thought about it.

XUSCR said:

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At some point even the most ardent protestant, if he is intellectually honest, will have to resolve the cognitive dissonance that flows from professing to be Christian while pretending that the first 1,500 years of Christian history never happened

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If you read the book of Haggai, would you say that the reform-minded people were suffering from cognitive dissonance? Did Josiah suffer from cognitive dissonance? How about Hezekiah? Isaiah? Samuel? Daniel? Yet somehow Lutherans, Calvinists, anabaptists, Pentecostals are not just wrong, but a special kind of wrong? Is there more division than there has ever been? I don't know; I suspect that God, not Frances Chan, can know this for sure. But there sure has been a lot of progress in global evangelization.

diehard03 said:

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At some point even the most ardent protestant, if he is intellectually honest, will have to resolve the cognitive dissonance that flows from professing to be Christian while pretending that the first 1,500 years of Christian history never happened

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I guess it's a good thing that no ardent protestant pretends it never happened. I think Chan was being a little loose with language as well. I think it was something he intellectually knew, but never really thought about it.

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Yep. My kids take church history, just like they take US history.

XUSCR said:

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At some point even the most ardent protestant, if he is intellectually honest, will have to resolve the cognitive dissonance that flows from professing to be Christian while pretending that the first 1,500 years of Christian history never happened

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This is definitely the kind of stuff that will get us to switch to team Vatican!

Pretty far stretch to compare any Christian sect to open idolatry and worship of foreign gods... and to compare any reformers to prophets who's words are God-breathed scripture. Tsk.

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k2aggie07 said:

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Pretty far stretch to compare any Christian sect to open idolatry and worship of foreign gods... and to compare any reformers to prophets who's words are God-breathed scripture. Tsk.

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The narrative is God-breathed. The words spoken in it? Not so much. Reform is nothing new. Neither is the sinfulness of the reformers.

"For the first 1000 years..."

1. Obvious shot at RCC (Roman Catholic Church), but understandable.
2. RCC and Orthodox Church(s) are still in communion, just squabble over the top bishop which seems silly on the outside looking in, but maybe there is more to it?
3. For me it's Peter and Paul all over again. Paul was the apostle to the Gentiles, Peter eventually came around. RCC has taken the good news to the ends of the earth - our Orthdox brethren are small in number but very devout and have an incredible tradition.

I have a hard time believing that God did not inspire MLK, Billy Graham, and Mother Theresa.

+Pablo

Indeed... I was thinking ecumenical dialogue.

You bring up a good point about the size of the Orthodox Church. I have a friend that attends the Serbian Orthodox Church here in Austin - it is largely (mostly) a Serbian crowd. Maybe that is my issue with the Orthodox Church is that it has remained largely divided along ethnic lines. Maybe that can be a good thing? Thoughts?

It's not any more divided on ethnic lines than the RCC is. Communion and doctrinal unity - that is to say, union in the Eucharist and in Christ - is the criterion. Not an earthly episcopal or administrative hierarchy.

Francis Chan is claiming he healed someone in a remote village. I find this story and the divided reactions to it interesting.


https://disrn.com/news/every-person-i-touched-was-healed-francis-chan-says-he-supernaturally-healed-numerous-people-in-myanmar

k2aggie07 said:

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It's not any more divided on ethnic lines than the RCC is. Communion and doctrinal unity - that is to say, union in the Eucharist and in Christ - is the criterion. Not an earthly episcopal or administrative hierarchy.

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Why is there a Serbian Orthodox Church in the United States?

Frok said:

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Francis Chan is claiming he healed someone in a remote village. I find this story and the divided reactions to it interesting.


https://disrn.com/news/every-person-i-touched-was-healed-francis-chan-says-he-supernaturally-healed-numerous-people-in-myanmar

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That's what happens when you hang around faith healers and prosperity gospel types. He's gone off the deep end.

Martin Q. Blank said:

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Frok said:

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Francis Chan is claiming he healed someone in a remote village. I find this story and the divided reactions to it interesting.


https://disrn.com/news/every-person-i-touched-was-healed-francis-chan-says-he-supernaturally-healed-numerous-people-in-myanmar

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That's what happens when you hang around faith healers and prosperity gospel types. He's gone off the deep end.

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That's also what happens when you hang around third world pastors and Christians. I've seen it in India and the DR. My friends that run programs in Africa or that have done mission work there report the same. Healings and dreams are common.

Short answer? Communism.

But that's not the point I was getting at. Administrative jurisdiction isn't the criterion of unity. The criterion is one faith, one baptism, one bread, one cup. Everything else is details.

I'm in communion with the Serbian Orthodox church, I can go there and be perfectly at home. Likewise the Greek, Russian, Romanian, and so on. All one Church.

Is this how it should be? No -- they should roll up under one regional hierarch. And God willing that will be the case someday.

Martin Q. Blank said:

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Frok said:

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Francis Chan is claiming he healed someone in a remote village. I find this story and the divided reactions to it interesting.


https://disrn.com/news/every-person-i-touched-was-healed-francis-chan-says-he-supernaturally-healed-numerous-people-in-myanmar

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That's what happens when you hang around faith healers and prosperity gospel types. He's gone off the deep end.

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So that was my first reaction. Then I had some friends who have been missionaries in India and they believe him. So I went back and read his account. I don't think he is lying, but he could be mistaken and the reactions of the people were more because this strange guy from a far away land was there with this message.

That's why I said the reactions were interesting. Forced me to ask myself, do I believe God still does miracles?

I do not know what to think of this but Chan seems like an honest guy. Would love to see this in person.

AGC said:

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Martin Q. Blank said:

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Frok said:

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Francis Chan is claiming he healed someone in a remote village. I find this story and the divided reactions to it interesting.


https://disrn.com/news/every-person-i-touched-was-healed-francis-chan-says-he-supernaturally-healed-numerous-people-in-myanmar

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That's what happens when you hang around faith healers and prosperity gospel types. He's gone off the deep end.

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That's also what happens when you hang around third world pastors and Christians. I've seen it in India and the DR. My friends that run programs in Africa or that have done mission work there report the same. Healings and dreams are common.

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I would expect healings to be common among people who believe in that phenomena.

Martin Q. Blank said:

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AGC said:

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Martin Q. Blank said:

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Frok said:

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Francis Chan is claiming he healed someone in a remote village. I find this story and the divided reactions to it interesting.


https://disrn.com/news/every-person-i-touched-was-healed-francis-chan-says-he-supernaturally-healed-numerous-people-in-myanmar

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That's what happens when you hang around faith healers and prosperity gospel types. He's gone off the deep end.

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That's also what happens when you hang around third world pastors and Christians. I've seen it in India and the DR. My friends that run programs in Africa or that have done mission work there report the same. Healings and dreams are common.

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I would expect healings to be common among people who believe in that phenomena.

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So I am confused. You think healings are common in these areas? I thought you said that the healings did not occur.

Or maybe you are saying they believe they are healed but that nothing really happened? Sorry I am simple minded.

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So I am confused. You think healings are common in these areas? I thought you said that the healings did not occur.

Or maybe you are saying they believe they are healed but that nothing really happened? Sorry I am simple minded.

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I think it's a little of column A and a little of column B.

I have friends who also say they've seen healing in these remote villages. I believe them, but I also believe that the numbers are probably less than they lead on and the power of suggestion is a huge thing.

So, is God healing more than the US? Probably. Is it so much that its common? Probably not.

The context of the healing does make sense. The gospel is being introduced to a new group of people. Gospel is proclaimed and people are healed. That's often how it happened in the bible.

But of course being in a remote village where we can't verify it means there will certainly be skepticism.

dermdoc said:

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Martin Q. Blank said:

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AGC said:

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Martin Q. Blank said:

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Frok said:

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Francis Chan is claiming he healed someone in a remote village. I find this story and the divided reactions to it interesting.


https://disrn.com/news/every-person-i-touched-was-healed-francis-chan-says-he-supernaturally-healed-numerous-people-in-myanmar

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That's what happens when you hang around faith healers and prosperity gospel types. He's gone off the deep end.

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That's also what happens when you hang around third world pastors and Christians. I've seen it in India and the DR. My friends that run programs in Africa or that have done mission work there report the same. Healings and dreams are common.

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I would expect healings to be common among people who believe in that phenomena.

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So I am confused. You think healings are common in these areas? I thought you said that the healings did not occur.

Or maybe you are saying they believe they are healed but that nothing really happened? Sorry I am simple minded.

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I believe they were healed, but not by some supernatural activity similar to that of Jesus and the Apostles. Show me the evidence and not some story you heard once by a friend you trust.

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The context of the healing does make sense. The gospel is being introduced to a new group of people. Gospel is proclaimed and people are healed. That's often how it happened in the bible.

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I don't disagree. I also don't disagree with the notion that God might do more healings in areas where they would receive the healings as God's blessing.

From my reading of the Scriptures faith seemed required for healing. In fact, Jesus could not do as much in his home town because of lack of faith.

And I think that our Western modern skepticism has made us miss out on some blessings.

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From my reading of the Scriptures faith seemed required for healing. In fact, Jesus could not do as much in his home town because of lack of faith.

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Jesus rewarded faith with healing several times, but we really don't know if he was going to refuse healing if they didn't. So, I don't think it was a requirement, but a blessing.

Also, you have the story of the girl raised from the dead. The family didn't have faith after she passes that Christ could save her.

You are correct. Same with Lazarus.