Anytime you want to come back and finish our other discussion I'm available and waiting on your response. Ball is in your court - but I can see where you are coming from a little more clearly now.
Methodist Church votes to split
10,515 Views |
94 Replies |
Last: 3 yr ago by UTExan
Faithful Ag said:
Anytime you want to come back and finish our other discussion I'm available and waiting on your response. Ball is in your court - but I can see where you are coming from a little more clearly now.
What a weird comment.
I'm sorry I've busy/burned out from working my real job plus helping my Church negotiate to get a new school in place in a week. That's on top of two toddlers.
Next time I'll prioritize an internet discussion over that...
I should have added that it's also a symptom of Rome leaving the Orthodox Church which eventually led to the reformation. Regardless Protestant churches are going to keep dividing because of these issues. They don't have a structure strong enough to stand up against the flow of culture in time.
AgLiving06 said:Faithful Ag said:
Anytime you want to come back and finish our other discussion I'm available and waiting on your response. Ball is in your court - but I can see where you are coming from a little more clearly now.
What a weird comment.
I'm sorry I've busy/burned out from working my real job plus helping my Church negotiate to get a new school in place in a week. That's on top of two toddlers.
Next time I'll prioritize an internet discussion over that...
All good. I didn't mean my comment to come across like it did...meant it more like "hey I'm still interested in your response on the thread discussion we were having about the Canon. I know we are all busy with jobs and kids and this crazy time we are living in but hoping we get to finish that conversation. The ball is in your court, so if/when you have some down time I would love to pick up the back and forth. If you don't want to reply, I understand and no big deal. Peace.
(And the I see where you are coming from now was referring to the pot-shot on the Catholic Church on this thread. I'm not defending this priest in the slightest - he's clearly off base - It just makes me think you're more of an anti-Catholic than I realized).
ETA - sorry for thread derail.
Larry Lajitas said:
I should have added that it's also a symptom of Rome leaving the Orthodox Church which eventually led to the reformation. Regardless Protestant churches are going to keep dividing because of these issues. They don't have a structure strong enough to stand up against the flow of culture in time.
There is some truth to that, although when Protestant churches divide, they grow in numbers. In the RC tradition there seems to be little motivation for bishops to overturn the corruption within the priesthood and a tendency to close ranks when it is revealed. In Prot churches discovery of corrupt practice is almost certain as whistleblowers go to the press and church boards are forced to act.
It is better to light a flamethrower than to curse the darkness- Sir Terence Pratchett
“ III stooges si viveret et nos omnes ad quos etiam probabile est mittent custard pies”
“ III stooges si viveret et nos omnes ad quos etiam probabile est mittent custard pies”
Larry Lajitas said:
I should have added that it's also a symptom of Rome leaving the Orthodox Church which eventually led to the reformation. Regardless Protestant churches are going to keep dividing because of these issues. They don't have a structure strong enough to stand up against the flow of culture in time.
Thats fair, but not a symptom of the Reformation.
Lutherans and Calvinists, for example, still exist largely unchanged.
Groups have been breaking away from the Church since the beginning (coptics, pelagians, donatists, etc).
As long as we live in this sinful world, people will put walls up between themselves and others.
Rome's structure losing strength enabled the reformation. Luther, et. al. had political support that kept them from going the way of the Cathars.
Rome (and Avignon) maintained cultural dominance at the point of the sword. When (and where) the people with the swords stopped listening, their cultural influence waned.
Rome (and Avignon) maintained cultural dominance at the point of the sword. When (and where) the people with the swords stopped listening, their cultural influence waned.
Since my posting on this thread several months ago, my wife and I have left the Methodist church. Well maybe not so much left the entirety of the denomination, but have left our church (FUMC Ft Worth) and until quarantine tried Christ Chapel a couple of times.
The turning point came when rainbow Methodist pins were being passed around our Sunday School class. When we said "no thank you", we were scolded by people we thought were our friends. We brought it up to one of the associate pastors, and they told us "we needed to embrace this new direction".
I don't know what our future holds. I grew up Methodist, my wife baptist, and the last church we attended in person (and online) is a bible church. I hope to one day find our way back to a Methodist church that more aligns with our ideals. It's painful seeing the church we baptized our daughter in be left behind, but our membership will 100% be changed.
The turning point came when rainbow Methodist pins were being passed around our Sunday School class. When we said "no thank you", we were scolded by people we thought were our friends. We brought it up to one of the associate pastors, and they told us "we needed to embrace this new direction".
I don't know what our future holds. I grew up Methodist, my wife baptist, and the last church we attended in person (and online) is a bible church. I hope to one day find our way back to a Methodist church that more aligns with our ideals. It's painful seeing the church we baptized our daughter in be left behind, but our membership will 100% be changed.
That denomination is now by, for and about an increasingly out of touch clergy trying to appeal to perhaps 1-2 % of the population, the vast majority of whom will never darken their doors.The Shank Ag said:
Since my posting on this thread several months ago, my wife and I have left the Methodist church. Well maybe not so much left the entirety of the denomination, but have left our church (FUMC Ft Worth) and until quarantine tried Christ Chapel and couple of times.
The turning point came when rainbow Methodist pins were being passed around our Sunday School class. When we said "no thank you", we were scolded by people we thought were our friends. We brought it up to one of the associate pastors, and they told us "we needed to embrace this new direction".
I don't know what our future holds. I grew up Methodist, my wife baptist, and the last church we attended in person (and online) is a bible church. I hope to one day find our way back to a Methodist church that more aligns with our ordeals. It's painful seeing the church we baptized our daughter in be left behind, but our membership will 100% be changed.
It is better to light a flamethrower than to curse the darkness- Sir Terence Pratchett
“ III stooges si viveret et nos omnes ad quos etiam probabile est mittent custard pies”
“ III stooges si viveret et nos omnes ad quos etiam probabile est mittent custard pies”
chimpanzee said:
Rome's structure losing strength enabled the reformation. Luther, et. al. had political support that kept them from going the way of the Cathars.
Rome (and Avignon) maintained cultural dominance at the point of the sword. When (and where) the people with the swords stopped listening, their cultural influence waned.
Don't forget the invention widespread use of the printer. Rome could no longer control the message when people like Luther could print and distribute large quantities of his writings before Rome even became aware.
Check out an Orthodox Church near you! Might seem odd at first but once you talk to the priest and go through the history it might be your new home.The Shank Ag said:
Since my posting on this thread several months ago, my wife and I have left the Methodist church. Well maybe not so much left the entirety of the denomination, but have left our church (FUMC Ft Worth) and until quarantine tried Christ Chapel and couple of times.
The turning point came when rainbow Methodist pins were being passed around our Sunday School class. When we said "no thank you", we were scolded by people we thought were our friends. We brought it up to one of the associate pastors, and they told us "we needed to embrace this new direction".
I don't know what our future holds. I grew up Methodist, my wife baptist, and the last church we attended in person (and online) is a bible church. I hope to one day find our way back to a Methodist church that more aligns with our ordeals. It's painful seeing the church we baptized our daughter in be left behind, but our membership will 100% be changed.
Larry Lajitas said:Check out an Orthodox Church near you! Might seem odd at first but once you talk to the priest and go through the history it might be your new home.The Shank Ag said:
Since my posting on this thread several months ago, my wife and I have left the Methodist church. Well maybe not so much left the entirety of the denomination, but have left our church (FUMC Ft Worth) and until quarantine tried Christ Chapel and couple of times.
The turning point came when rainbow Methodist pins were being passed around our Sunday School class. When we said "no thank you", we were scolded by people we thought were our friends. We brought it up to one of the associate pastors, and they told us "we needed to embrace this new direction".
I don't know what our future holds. I grew up Methodist, my wife baptist, and the last church we attended in person (and online) is a bible church. I hope to one day find our way back to a Methodist church that more aligns with our ordeals. It's painful seeing the church we baptized our daughter in be left behind, but our membership will 100% be changed.
After the Russian czars and the way they treated Old Believers?
It is better to light a flamethrower than to curse the darkness- Sir Terence Pratchett
“ III stooges si viveret et nos omnes ad quos etiam probabile est mittent custard pies”
“ III stooges si viveret et nos omnes ad quos etiam probabile est mittent custard pies”
Who are the Old Believers and what happened?
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.csmonitor.com/layout/set/amphtml/World/Europe/2018/0824/Once-banished-by-czars-a-centuries-old-sect-finds-new-life-in-modern-Russia
Patriarch Nikhon's reforms of 1652.
Patriarch Nikhon's reforms of 1652.
It is better to light a flamethrower than to curse the darkness- Sir Terence Pratchett
“ III stooges si viveret et nos omnes ad quos etiam probabile est mittent custard pies”
“ III stooges si viveret et nos omnes ad quos etiam probabile est mittent custard pies”
Sounds more like a Russian led persecution problem which is obviously common in their history.
Larry Lajitas said:
Sounds more like a Russian led persecution problem which is obviously common in their history.
Kind of like the French Catholics and the Huguenots?
It is better to light a flamethrower than to curse the darkness- Sir Terence Pratchett
“ III stooges si viveret et nos omnes ad quos etiam probabile est mittent custard pies”
“ III stooges si viveret et nos omnes ad quos etiam probabile est mittent custard pies”
What's the latest on the vote?
We are HPUMC members in Dallas and I have been since I was born. We're already looking at other churches should they choose to go the progressive route.
We are HPUMC members in Dallas and I have been since I was born. We're already looking at other churches should they choose to go the progressive route.
yukmonkey said:
What's the latest on the vote?
We are HPUMC members in Dallas and I have been since I was born. We're already looking at other churches should they choose to go the progressive route.
So far as I can determine from a now-outsider's perspective, there is a remaining UMC which will likely lose conservative congregations. This will be the Adam Hamilton wing which is somewhat traditional but leans progressive on LGBTQ issues. Meanwhile, their Discipline still is written such that it prohibits homosexual acts. So the western jurisdiction, with scant numbers of about 300,000 and falling, wants to split off and form its own pro LGBTQ denomination and has been in planning about just such a move. So basically, traditional Methodist Christianity is dead west of the Kansas-Colorado state line going west until you hit the Philippines, is dead in New England, dead in the upper Midwest and dead in many large cities.
It is better to light a flamethrower than to curse the darkness- Sir Terence Pratchett
“ III stooges si viveret et nos omnes ad quos etiam probabile est mittent custard pies”
“ III stooges si viveret et nos omnes ad quos etiam probabile est mittent custard pies”
It's interesting enough that Nikon resigned. It's not like the various bishops of the Orthodox Church approved of what the state of Russia's secret police were doing. You act as if one Patriarch represents the entire Orthodox Church. That would be The Catholic Church or endless Protestant churches who have little popes all over the place making sole decisions. Like I said it's nothing new with Russia. Millions of Orthodox Christians and other religions have been persecuted under the Soviet rule as well. We have many martyrs in Russia.UTExan said:Larry Lajitas said:
Sounds more like a Russian led persecution problem which is obviously common in their history.
Kind of like the French Catholics and the Huguenots?
As far as those VERY minor reforms it was just liturgical practices lining up with the Greeks and even things like the sign of the cross with 2 instead 3 fingers. Also looks like the Old Believers were very violent from the get go. Lol I mean are you really going to try to compare something like that to sola scriptura? Like it or not sola scriptura and the inevitable birth of secularism are devouring your church. I'm sure it hurts and I'm sorry to see it happen but the Orthodox Church won't budge on items like this. I keep telling my dad who always complains about his non denominational church that all of these modern issues he has are not found in the Orthodox Church.
Larry, I agree with you and it is refreshing to just focus on liturgical cycle and not have political/cultural issues even on the radar threatening anything, or some of the secular liberal thought that seemed to seep into everything.
But having said that there are things that many Methodists do better than many Orthodox, like generosity or even more consistent reading of scripture. My priest even mentioned that when I joined the Orthodox Church...he said that we currently don't do a fraction of what Catholics and Protestants do here in Houston when it comes to charity, but he hoped that we were moving in the right direction.
Whatever happens I'll be praying for everyone on here; it's a tough situation and can be devastating to spend decades raising children in a church and spend the time and money on it only to see it fall apart and have to find a new home.
But having said that there are things that many Methodists do better than many Orthodox, like generosity or even more consistent reading of scripture. My priest even mentioned that when I joined the Orthodox Church...he said that we currently don't do a fraction of what Catholics and Protestants do here in Houston when it comes to charity, but he hoped that we were moving in the right direction.
Whatever happens I'll be praying for everyone on here; it's a tough situation and can be devastating to spend decades raising children in a church and spend the time and money on it only to see it fall apart and have to find a new home.
The Episcopal Church in the US has lost over half its members since voting to approve the election of the practicing and avowing homosexual bishop of New Hampshire (since divorced) and proceeding to write rites for same sex marriages. The largest and fastest growing episcopal church in North America is a "Windsor Parish", one that adheres to traditional Biblical teachings on sexuality: St Martin's in Houston.
God made the country, and man made the town. William Cowper
Larry, give it up. You don't even know what church I attend.Quote:
Like it or not sola scriptura and the inevitable birth of secularism are devouring your church. I'm sure it hurts and I'm sorry to see it happen but the Orthodox Church won't budge on items like this.
Edit to say that my particular brand of Christianity (charismatic/pentecostal) is the fastest growing form of Christianity. That's nothing to brag about, but it is fact.
It is better to light a flamethrower than to curse the darkness- Sir Terence Pratchett
“ III stooges si viveret et nos omnes ad quos etiam probabile est mittent custard pies”
“ III stooges si viveret et nos omnes ad quos etiam probabile est mittent custard pies”
Delayed until September 2021.yukmonkey said:
What's the latest on the vote?
We are HPUMC members in Dallas and I have been since I was born. We're already looking at other churches should they choose to go the progressive route.
Oh I've always thought that Protestants do a fantastic job in many areas, as you said charity and the amount of missionaries is amazing. God bless them for that, in fact I still volunteer with my old non denominational pastor who does a wonderful charity work throughout Austin. I love my brothers and sisters in Christ.Gator03 said:
Larry, I agree with you and it is refreshing to just focus on liturgical cycle and not have political/cultural issues even on the radar threatening anything, or some of the secular liberal thought that seemed to seep into everything.
But having said that there are things that many Methodists do better than many Orthodox, like generosity or even more consistent reading of scripture. My priest even mentioned that when I joined the Orthodox Church...he said that we currently don't do a fraction of what Catholics and Protestants do here in Houston when it comes to charity, but he hoped that we were moving in the right direction.
Whatever happens I'll be praying for everyone on here; it's a tough situation and can be devastating to spend decades raising children in a church and spend the time and money on it only to see it fall apart and have to find a new home.
However...we are talking about something different and it's finally starting to reveal itself in the culture. Protestant fracturing is no joke and we will continue to see it's effects. The secular frame needs to be addressed in every denomination and those who mold with it should frankly reevaluate what it means to be a Christian.
That's awesome, hope it continues. Just be aware out there, which it sounds like you are. My recommendation is just for anyone who's church has been torn apart by the secular realm should consider going at least once to an Orthodox Church.UTExan said:Larry, give it up. You don't even know what church I attend.Quote:
Like it or not sola scriptura and the inevitable birth of secularism are devouring your church. I'm sure it hurts and I'm sorry to see it happen but the Orthodox Church won't budge on items like this.
Edit to say that my particular brand of Christianity (charismatic/pentecostal) is the fastest growing form of Christianity. That's nothing to brag about, but it is fact.
Larry Lajitas said:That's awesome, hope it continues. Just be aware out there, which it sounds like you are. My recommendation is just for anyone who's church has been torn apart by the secular realm should consider going at least once to an Orthodox Church.UTExan said:Larry, give it up. You don't even know what church I attend.Quote:
Like it or not sola scriptura and the inevitable birth of secularism are devouring your church. I'm sure it hurts and I'm sorry to see it happen but the Orthodox Church won't budge on items like this.
Edit to say that my particular brand of Christianity (charismatic/pentecostal) is the fastest growing form of Christianity. That's nothing to brag about, but it is fact.
Excellent advice! Have a blessed day. Edit to say that the saddest thing about event cancellations so far is the cancellation of the local September Greek Festival, which is held on the property adjacent to Holy Trinity cathedral in downtown Salt Lake.
I love going there because the cathedral area also has the Utah Hellenic Museum.
It is better to light a flamethrower than to curse the darkness- Sir Terence Pratchett
“ III stooges si viveret et nos omnes ad quos etiam probabile est mittent custard pies”
“ III stooges si viveret et nos omnes ad quos etiam probabile est mittent custard pies”