What is a "good" person?

5,583 Views | 114 Replies | Last: 4 yr ago by 88Warrior
FTAggies
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So one of my friends went off on a rant the other day trashing an acquaintance who, in their discussion about God and church, had expressed a traditional Christian viewpoint on how the practice of homosexuality was sinful. Well in the rant my friend says that he had said that he was proud of his wife's church that accepted everybody, in particular his gay SIL, and that all they care about at that church is whether you're a "good" person or not. I seem to hear this phrase put out a lot by people who've left the church or who use it to explain why they don't need to go to church or be a Christian. So what makes a person "good" and why does it matter in the long run?
Gig'em
diehard03
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A good person is what people think they are when they choose to see themselves as better than someone else.
gordo97
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Not being an a-hole
Frok
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gordo97 said:

Not being an a-hole


Sometimes the jerks are actually good because they will tell you the truth while everyone else was lying to you because they wanted to be polite
Ciboag96
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Now behold, one came and said to Him, "Good Teacher, what good thing shall I do that I may have eternal life?"
17 So He said to him, "Why do you call Me good? No one is good but One, that is, God. But if you want to enter into life, keep the commandments."
18 He said to Him, "Which ones?" Jesus said, " 'You shall not murder,' 'You shall not commit adultery,' 'You shall not steal,' 'You shall not bear false witness,'
19 'Honor your father and your mother,' and, 'You shall love your neighbor as yourself.'"
20 The young man said to Him, "All these things I have kept from my youth. What do I still lack?"
21 Jesus said to him, "If you want to be perfect, go, sell what you have and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven; and come, follow Me."
A Net Full of Jello
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diehard03 said:

A good person is what people think they are when they choose to see themselves as better than someone else.

Yeap. It's a person who judges himself by his intentions and often others by their actions.

It is also a sliding scale. Some people believe you are "good" if you support one specific government ideology. Others think you have to support the other side. Fact is, you can only be good if you have accepted Jesus Christ as your saviour and atonement for your sins. And even then, you agree only good because of another's actions. Goodness cannot be achieved on your own.

Further, and I would 100% argue that excusing another person's sin and not showing them the only path to salvation would be the complete opposite of good. In fact, it is pretty much quite literally telling them they can go to hell and you don't care.
chimpanzee
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Only fair measure of goodness is proximity to God, and only He can measure that for each of us.

The parable of the Pharisee and the tax collector comes to mind for this question, and we can all fall into the Pharisee's trap in the misplaced need to feel overly good about ourselves. Our perceptions of relative "goodness" among us mortals can't be all that reliable in any case.

From a practical standpoint, if a church is formally/doctrinally saying that they believe that your actions are taking you away from God, and you disagree and want to continue those actions, I'm not sure why you would want to be there in the first place.

Reminds me of someone that was just aghast that a couple couldn't go get married in a beautiful Catholic church in their city because neither the bride or groom were, in fact Catholic. Score one for traditional aesthetics, I guess.
Frok
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If I really analyze all the "good" things I do I realize they had a somewhat selfish motive attached to them. I then realize that there really isn't anything truly good that I do. Then I quickly stop thinking about it because it sounds too much like calvinism.

dermdoc
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I find it bizarre that somebody would judge "goodness" on someone's stance on homosexuality.
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chimpanzee
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dermdoc said:

I find it bizarre that somebody would judge "goodness" on someone's stance on homosexuality.
This particular issue seems to have absorbed way more bandwidth than it is actually due.
diehard03
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Quote:

I find it bizarre that somebody would judge "goodness" on someone's stance on homosexuality.

The other odd part to me, is that "I'm a good person" is a defensive statement. It's as if you already giving ground that you don't think homosexuality is right by invoking this. "They don't care if you're gay or not...as long as you're a good person".
bmks270
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Jesus said "Why do you call me good?"

The Bible instructions for behavior and thought will lead to a joyous life here on earth and eternal life apart from earth.

You set your own standard by your own thoughts. Gods power is within all men and is directed by mans thoughts. Those who purify their mind and hearts and recognize the authority and glory of God will find eternal life.


Matthew 12:35-37
"A good man out of the good treasure of his heart brings forth good things, and an evil man out of the evil treasure brings forth evil things. But I say to you that for every idle word men may speak, they will give account of it in the day of judgment. "For by your words you will be justified, and by your words you will be condemned."

Matthew 26:52
"But Jesus said to him, "Put your sword in its place, for all who take the sword will perish by the sword.""

Matthew 7:2
"For with what judgment you judge, you will be judged; and with the measure you use, it will be measured back to you."

Luke 19:22
"And he said to him, 'Out of your own mouth I will judge you, you wicked servant. You knew that I was an austere man, collecting what I did not deposit and reaping what I did not sow.'"

John 12:47-48
And if anyone hears My words and does not believe, I do not judge him; for I did not come to judge the world but to save the world. He who rejects Me, and does not receive My words, has that which judges himthe word that I have spoken will judge him in the last day."

Luke 17:20-22
Now when He was asked by the Pharisees when the kingdom of God would come, He answered them and said, "The kingdom of God does not come with observation; nor will they say, 'See here!' or 'See there!' For indeed, the kingdom of God is within you."

Matthew 5:21-22
"You have heard that it was said to those of old, 'You shall not murder, and whoever murders will be in danger of the judgment.' But I say to you that whoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment. And whoever says to his brother, 'Raca!' shall be in danger of the council. But whoever says, 'You fool!' shall be in danger of hell fire.


swimmerbabe11
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A unicorn
PacifistAg
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dermdoc said:

I find it bizarre that somebody would judge "goodness" on someone's stance on homosexuality.
It's also how many seem to judge the validity of someone's faith in Christ crucified. Very odd how central this one issue has become.

As for the OP's question, obviously none of us are "good" when compared to our Savior. What I think people mean by that is someone who treats people with kindness. Basically, I think the term "good" has come to refer to people who love as Paul defined love in 1 Cor 13. Or, it could simply be someone who isn't an abrasive ass, which is a rare commodity nowadays in our heavily partisan/political culture.
diehard03
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Quote:

Basically, I think the term "good" has come to refer to people who love as Paul defined love in 1 Cor 13

I don't think so. I think it's basically come to mean, "I'm not a horrific monster, so you can't tell me what to do"
Beer Baron
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dermdoc said:

I find it bizarre that somebody would judge "goodness" on someone's stance on homosexuality.
I do too. I think many very good people have terrible opinions on gay people.

On the other hand, I also find it bizarre that anyone would judge "goodness" by who people love or have sex with.
diehard03
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Quote:

On the other hand, I also find it bizarre that anyone would judge "goodness" by who people love or have sex with.

I don't think it has anything to do the love/sex part. The "goodness" is specifically around whether you're willing to allow someone else who does things different than you to have the same status as you enjoy.
PacifistAg
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diehard03 said:

Quote:

Basically, I think the term "good" has come to refer to people who love as Paul defined love in 1 Cor 13

I don't think so. I think it's basically come to mean, "I'm not a horrific monster, so you can't tell me what to do"
True, which is why I had added "Or, it could simply be someone who isn't an abrasive ass, which is a rare commodity nowadays in our heavily partisan/political culture."

Our culture has lowered the bar to being a "good" person so much that simply not being a total jerk qualifies one.
Martin Q. Blank
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Quote:

So what makes a person "good" and why does it matter in the long run?
Did you put "good" in quotation marks for a reason? Seems to me the thread should be "what is good?"
diehard03
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Quote:

True, which is why I had added "Or, it could simply be someone who isn't an abrasive ass, which is a rare commodity nowadays in our heavily partisan/political culture."

Our culture has lowered the bar to being a "good" person so much that simply not being a total jerk qualifies one.

I don't even think it's that. I think most people say "hey, I'm a good person. I don't smoke or litter. I don't kill people. Don't tell me what to do."

To fully achieve Godwin's law, many people equate "good" to "Not Hitler".
FTAggies
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This is always the secular answer nowadays. It's the life philosophy of this era that's not based on who you are but what you're not. I.e. you're not THAT guy. It's like we think we're justified by what we didn't do.
Gig'em
diehard03
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Quote:

It's like we think we're justified by what we didn't do.

The reality is that we all do bad things. It's just easier to measure our bad things against someone else's bad things and think ours aren't so bad.

In the end, the issue is that we don't want to stop doing our bad things.
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Aggrad08
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AstroAg17 said:

Some people are just better than others. If we compare the good and the harm they do, and the purity of their intentions, there are some who score relatively well. They are better, and as far as people go, they are good.


The good place system
AgLiving06
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diehard03 said:

Quote:

It's like we think we're justified by what we didn't do.

The reality is that we all do bad things. It's just easier to measure our bad things against someone else's bad things and think ours aren't so bad.

In the end, the issue is that we don't want to stop doing our bad things.

In Romans, Paul makes it rather clear he doesn't believe he even has the ability to stop.
Beer Baron
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Aggrad08 said:

AstroAg17 said:

Some people are just better than others. If we compare the good and the harm they do, and the purity of their intentions, there are some who score relatively well. They are better, and as far as people go, they are good.


The good place system
The "What Would Tami Taylor from Friday Night Lights do?" system is pretty good too.
DirtDiver
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Quote:

So what makes a person "good" and why does it matter in the long run?
This question assumes a standard of measurement for good and evil. If humanity chooses the standard then this will always be a moving target.

example:
A good person is one who gives to the poor, a good person is one who doesn't spank their kids, a good person is one who remains sexually pure, or doesn't embrace homosexuality, or believes the white race is superior and that Jewish people should be gassed. See where the problems arise if man selects decides what's good or bad. Also, what if a person is 'good' all of his life, but has an affair? Is he a good person? He's simply having consensual sex with another person?

The Bad News

18 But the things that proceed out of the mouth come from the heart, and those defile the man. 19 For out of the heart come evil thoughts, murders, adulteries, fornications, thefts, false witness, slanders. 20 These are the things which defile the man; but to eat with unwashed hands does not defile the man." Matt. 15

"There is none righteous, not even one;
11 There is none who understands,
There is none who seeks for God;
12 All have turned aside, together they have become useless;
There is none who does good,
There is not even one."
13 "Their throat is an open grave,
With their tongues they keep deceiving,"
"The poison of asps is under their lips";
14 "Whose mouth is full of cursing and bitterness";
15 "Their feet are swift to shed blood,
16 Destruction and misery are in their paths,
17 And the path of peace they have not known."
18 "There is no fear of God before their eyes."

All guilty and the moral standard.

23 for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God,

The good news.

7 For one will hardly die for a righteous man; though perhaps for the good man someone would dare even to die. 8 But God demonstrates His own love toward us, in that while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us.
diehard03
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Quote:

Some people are just better than others. If we compare the good and the harm they do, and the purity of their intentions, there are some who score relatively well. They are better, and as far as people go, they are good.

Yes, and this give us the clear conscience to keep doing our bad things (or to do not do good things. However you want to frame it)

In the end, it's just a mechanism to feel good, rather than doing good or being good.
Martin Q. Blank
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AstroAg17 said:

Some people are just better than others. If we compare the good and the harm they do, and the purity of their intentions, there are some who score relatively well. They are better, and as far as people go, they are good.
For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ, so that each one may receive what is due for what he has done in the body, whether good or evil.
AggieAdvisor16
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A lot of these people follow what Christian Smith termed moralistic therapeutic deism. They like the idea of a god looking out for them and being there when they want one, but don't like the restrictions on their behavior that come from following a religion. They want the benefits without any of the responsibilities. So they basically create a Santa Claus or genie who is there when they need it but doesn't place any demands on them. Often these people grew up going to church and would consider themselves Christians, but in reality they are basically just what Dean Inserra calls "cultural Christians". They aren't atheists, they went to church some as a kid and are relatively decent people, so they think they are good in God's eyes, when in reality, they don't have a true understanding of the gospel. This is especially the case for people who grew up in the Bible Belt. For them, good is a relative term compared to the rest of society, not the Biblical standard that we all fall short of. They fail to understand the severity of their sin and the necessity of repentance. As R.C. Sproul said "Why do bad things happen to good people? That only happened once, and He volunteered."
Woody2006
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A person is not good or bad, it's his / her actions that are good or bad.

Generally, we act as though people who tend towards good actions are good people and those who behave poorly too often are bad people.

Everyone has good actions and bad actions, it's all in the percentages...
schmendeler
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I think in your life you get to have a pretty good idea who is a good human being and who isn't. It may be difficult to state a hard definition but it's not hard to recognize.
dermdoc
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AggieAdvisor16 said:

A lot of these people follow what Christian Smith termed moralistic therapeutic deism. They like the idea of a god looking out for them and being there when they want one, but don't like the restrictions on their behavior that come from following a religion. They want the benefits without any of the responsibilities. So they basically create a Santa Claus or genie who is there when they need it but doesn't place any demands on them. Often these people grew up going to church and would consider themselves Christians, but in reality they are basically just what Dean Inserra calls "cultural Christians". They aren't atheists, they went to church some as a kid and are relatively decent people, so they think they are good in God's eyes, when in reality, they don't have a true understanding of the gospel. This is especially the case for people who grew up in the Bible Belt. For them, good is a relative term compared to the rest of society, not the Biblical standard that we all fall short of. They fail to understand the severity of their sin and the necessity of repentance. As R.C. Sproul said "Why do bad things happen to good people? That only happened once, and He volunteered."
I agree with what you are saying and it makes me sad that these people do not seem to realize how much better and abundant life is when you have a true relationship with the Lord. And I wonder how many people really believe in an afterlife? Seems to me if they did they would live differently and worry a lot less.

And to get back to the term "good". As a Christian I realize there are no truly good people, just people who through grace are declared righteous in God's eyes by the blood of Jesus. Praise God!
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88Warrior
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Good...bad....nice...mean etc..(to me) simply describes a person's most recent actions (behavior)....I've been all of these in the course of the same day...we are all flawed but those that have faith and believe have been saved by his grace to one day live in his mansion of many rooms..maybe then there will be "good" people....??..
dermdoc
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Agree. And after further thinking on the term "cultural Christian" I think we have to be very careful not to judge somebody else's walk with the Lord. I firmly believe that ALL who call upon the name of the Lord will be saved. That EVERY knee shall bow. That Christ will draw ALL men to Him. That this season we celebrate the Incarnation is because it is GOOD news. John 3:17 "For God did not send His Son into the world to condemn the world, but that the world through Him might be saved."
I am very leery of pastors or other people who try to set requirements for being a born again Christian other than faith brought about by God's grace.. Very slippery slope.
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