Observing the Sabbath

5,031 Views | 79 Replies | Last: 4 yr ago by aggiedad20
bamdvm
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Whatever happened to Agie95? This seems like a discussion he would be all over.
Haven't been on this board in awhile....
AgLiving06
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bamdvm said:

Whatever happened to Agie95? This seems like a discussion he would be all over.
Haven't been on this board in awhile....

He quit posting under that name, but he's still lurking around.
Win At Life
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AG
For a quick defense of YHWH's Sabbath:

God declares HIS Sabbath time to be HIS seventh day (Lev 32:2-3) Friday evening to Saturday evening (Lev 23:32) that HE established (Ex 16:26) for both Jews and Gentiles for all time (Num 15:15), which Yeshua kept as was HIS custom (Luke 4:16). Yeshua's resurrection was about HIS feast of First Fruits (Lev 23:10), and has nothing to do with establishing or abolishing any Sabbath, except that mankind who wants to change the Sabbath season, changed it on their own. Also, the Lord's Day, or more accurately Yom YHWH is the Day of the Lord.

Day of the LORD

It is the work of the anti-Christ to change YHWH's appointed times and Laws (Dan 7:25).
The meetings at the head of the week (translators insert "day" which is not in the text; the word is "sabbaton"), were Havdalah services honoring the closing of the Sabbath, which Jews (even ones who believe in Jesus) keep to this day.

Havdalah

Colossians 2:14 is written to a Gentile audience (2:11, 2:13, 3:11) who were being criticized by their pagan friends and family for converting to a Jewish-based religion and Paul is telling them to keep the Sabbath (not abolish it), by not giving into their judgmental attitudes.

Romans 14 is about avoiding pagan ROMAN feast days (or carrying on in spite of them) and not about the Sabbath (the word "Sabbath" is never used in Romans 14)

Roman Festivals

God cares what day you honor HIS Sabbath, whether it be HIS day or a day that seems right in your own eyes, or else He wouldn't have ordered the stoning of the man in Numbers 15:32-35. How many men must YHWH execute for you to believe He is serious? He is a jealous God (Deut 4:24). YHWH's Sabbath day is eternal, for in six days He made the heavens and the earth and declared the seven day to be a Holy Sabbath. He who has ears, let him hear.

Shalom.
bamdvm
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Win At Life said:

For a quick defense of YHWH's Sabbath:

God declares HIS Sabbath time to be HIS seventh day (Lev 32:2-3) Friday evening to Saturday evening (Lev 23:32) that HE established (Ex 16:26) for both Jews and Gentiles for all time (Num 15:15), which Yeshua kept as was HIS custom (Luke 4:16). Yeshua's resurrection was about HIS feast of First Fruits (Lev 23:10), and has nothing to do with establishing or abolishing any Sabbath, except that mankind who wants to change the Sabbath season, changed it on their own. Also, the Lord's Day, or more accurately Yom YHWH is the Day of the Lord.

Day of the LORD

It is the work of the anti-Christ to change YHWH's appointed times and Laws (Dan 7:25).
The meetings at the head of the week (translators insert "day" which is not in the text; the word is "sabbaton"), were Havdalah services honoring the closing of the Sabbath, which Jews (even ones who believe in Jesus) keep to this day.

Havdalah

Colossians 2:14 is written to a Gentile audience (2:11, 2:13, 3:11) who were being criticized by their pagan friends and family for converting to a Jewish-based religion and Paul is telling them to keep the Sabbath (not abolish it), by not giving into their judgmental attitudes.

Romans 14 is about avoiding pagan ROMAN feast days (or carrying on in spite of them) and not about the Sabbath (the word "Sabbath" is never used in Romans 14)

Roman Festivals

God cares what day you honor HIS Sabbath, whether it be HIS day or a day that seems right in your own eyes, or else He wouldn't have ordered the stoning of the man in Numbers 15:32-35. How many men must YHWH execute for you to believe He is serious? He is a jealous God (Deut 4:24). YHWH's Sabbath day is eternal, for in six days He made the heavens and the earth and declared the seven day to be a Holy Sabbath. He who has ears, let him hear.

Shalom.


Agreed. Good summation.
Zobel
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AG
Quote:

He who has ears, let him hear.
Zobel
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AG
If you're going to use scripture I think you should stick to what it says.

Lev 23:2-3 doesn't say anything about HIS seventh day. It say all the days of holy convocations are His feasts, and that for six days work is to be done but the seventh is a sabbath rest, a holy convocation to the Lord...it is a Sabbath day to the Lord.

As for Numbers 15:15, I am not a resident alien dwelling in Israel.

////

Doesn't St Paul write - I testify that if you are circumcised, you are bound to observe the whole Law? (Gal 5:3). Doesn't the converse show that those who are not circumcised are not bound to observe the whole Law? If Gentile Christians were expected to observe the Law (as they are not, in the NT) how would this make any sense? Does it make any sense for St Paul to have the power to judge them to only observe a part of the Law? No, of course not. He doesn't say "I command," he simply says, "I testify" - a kind of echo of Christ's words, it is not I who judge you but Moses (John 5:45). If you put yourself under the Law, St Paul testifies that you are well and truly under it. With one command comes all of them, including the punishments for transgressions.

What does "Become like me, for I became like you" (Gal 4:12) mean? Certainly not to become circumcised, and thereby under the whole Law, as we see later. How has he become like them? We should contemplate this carefully, along with the lesson of Hagar and Sarah at the end of Galatians 4.

He St Paul gives us a kind of answer in Philippians 3. "Circumcision on the eighth day; of the nation of Israel, of the tribe of Benjamin; a Hebrew of Hebrews; according to the Law, a Pharisee; according to zeal, persecuting the church; according to righteousness in the Law, having become faultless. But whatever things were gain to me, these I have esteemed loss because of Christ." Become like me, because I became like you.

As for keeping the Law - "You are not to sacrifice the Passover animal in any of the towns the LORD your God is giving you. You must only offer the Passover sacrifice at the place the LORD your God will choose" i.e., Jerusalem. Likewise the feast of Pentecost, and Tabernacles - all in Jerusalem. You cannot keep the Law today, including the festivals, because they all prescribe time and place and actions, including sacrifices which cannot be done without the Temple. The scriptures themselves testify, the Jews knew this. They didn't offer sacrifice in the captivity of Babylon.


Quote:

At this time there is no prince, no prophet, no leader;
There is no whole burnt offering, no sacrifice, no offering, and no incense;
There is no place to bear fruit before You and to find mercy.
Yet with a contrite soul and humbled spirit,
May we receive mercy, as with whole burnt offerings of rams and bulls,
As with thousands of fatted lambs.
So let this be our sacrifice before you today.
Daniel 3:38-39.

They didn't keep the Passover in Babylon - Daniel says he fasted for three entire weeks until the twenty fourth day of the first month (Daniel 10:2-4). No meat before and after the Passover date, fasting through what would be the feast of unleavened bread. You cannot keep the whole Law today.
Win At Life
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AG
?????

Lev 23:2 "...YHWH's appointed times..."

You had better be grafted in and adopted into Abraham's family or else you are not saved. If you are saved then you are and it's way past time you recognized that and embraced it.

I'm not sure why you changed the topic from Sabbath to circumcision, but you are missing a small, yet incredibly important distinction that I've already mentioned on this thread more than once. The entire discussion about circumcision throughout the New Testament is predicated on the bad Jewish doctrine that circumcision earns salvation (Acts 15:1). Anyone trying to earn salvation through circumcision would indeed also have to keep all the law perfectly. The Law was never given to earn salvation. The Law is God's instruction for us to live right with Him and at peace with you fellow man. That, you both could and should do.

But you're doctrine supports the desire of the Antichrist to abolish YHWH's appointed times and Law. How can you live with that? I fear you know not what you do. He who has eyes to see, let him see.

Shalom.
Zobel
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AG
What translation are you using? Nearly every translation I see uses "feast" or "festival" for "moed". Never simply "time", but an assignment. I think it is a strain to say "moed" means time in the sense you're using it, that is to say, the specificity of HIS SEVENTH day, which is why nearly none of the translators do. This is also why the Jewish translators of the Septuagint used hoerte - festival or feast - when they translated this passage. The same word used in the NT over and over again for feasts, festivals, including all of the feasts of the Jews in the gospels. In other words, what is important here is that God established these feasts, festivals - which we agree - but not that it is the SEVENTH. What is important is that this day is to Him. And, again, this is why I said no longer do Christians devote one of seven plus holidays, but 24/7/365. As we say in the liturgy, "we commend ourselves and each other and our whole lives to Christ our God."
Quote:

You had better be grafted in and adopted into Abraham's family or else you are not saved. If you are saved then you are and it's way past time you recognized that and embraced it.
You've got this precisely backwards, exactly as the Jews in the NT did. Being of Abraham's family is not what saves. Jesus Christ saves - salvation comes from out of the Jews, but we are saved by Christ, not by being Jewish. We don't become part of Abraham's family, but of God's (1 John 3:2, John 1:12). The promise is not to be "of Abraham," but to be "of Abraham" is to be part of the promise.

"Therefore it is of faith, that it might be according to grace; that the promise might be sure to all the seed [of Abraham]; not to that only which is of the Law, but to that also which is of the faith of Abraham; who is the father of all of us."

Abraham's family is a train wreck by any measure. Murder, rape, adultery, incest, polygamy, war, idolatry, rebellion. In other words, the same as all mankind. Merely being in his family is of no value - St Paul said he counted it as loss compared to Christ. So we are heirs to his promise, and sons of that promise, and therefore members of the family of God.

Quote:

I'm not sure why you changed the topic from Sabbath to circumcision, but you are missing a small, yet incredibly important distinction that I've already mentioned on this thread more than once. The entire discussion about circumcision throughout the New Testament is predicated on the bad Jewish doctrine that circumcision earns salvation (Acts 15:1). Anyone trying to earn salvation through circumcision would indeed also have to keep all the law perfectly. The Law was never given to earn salvation. The Law is God's instruction for us to live right with Him and at peace with you fellow man. That, you both could and should do.
Because the Law is the Law, and no part can be taken away from the whole.

And that small detail changes nothing whatever of what I wrote above. St Paul didn't say - don't get circumcised in order to be saved, but nevertheless be circumcised. He didn't say, don't follow the Law to be saved, but nevertheless follow the Law. He said if you become circumcised then you must follow the Law. And not as a commandment, but as as a witness. He testified to the truth of the matter.

You can replace circumcision with sabbath keeping, or ritual fasting, or any aspect of the Law in letter. To enter into a part is to accept the whole.
Quote:

But you're doctrine supports the desire of the Antichrist to abolish YHWH's appointed times and Law. How can you live with that? I fear you know not what you do. He who has eyes to see, let him see.
Same accusation made against Christ - and He said He didn't abolish, but to fulfill, to make full, to complete, to fill up. It isn't merely be holy as the Father is holy but be perfect. Not only does He do this, He is this. He is the Law. And so following the Law is to be like Potiphar's wife, who got the robe of Joseph but not what she sought.

No one abolishing anything, but extending.

And it's super pretentious to keep quoting Christ like that. And more than a bit ironic in this case, since those prophetic words of Isaiah and Christ were directed towards Law-following Jews.
aggiedad20
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God is not the author of confusion...or is He?

The sabbath (all of them) were abolished. Period. But I'm sure some still build fires on Saturday.
dermdoc
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AG
aggiedad20 said:

God is not the author of confusion...or is He?

The sabbath (all of them) were abolished. Period. But I'm sure some still build fires on Saturday.


Why be disrespectful?
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aggiedad20
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I don't consider truth to be disrespectful nor should anyone else. Scripture clearly teaches that the sabbath was abolished. The early church didn't observe it, nor should we. Actually those who attempt to reinstitute observing the Law without adherence to its totality are being disrespectful imho. Sabbath was never intended to be observed universally then and certainly not today.

Happy New Year doc
 
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