I think division, bickering, and exclusion are the work of Satan. But I am out there. But in my reading, Jesus never excluded anyone. The goats exclude themselves.ramblin_ag02 said:
Well at least we finally found the right church. Now we only have to find the right faction within the right church, so that after the split we're still in God's good graces. Hate to be in the right church but wrong faction. You have no idea how much God hates those guys
The pastor at the church I went to growing up shared a similar story one Sunday morning. He was checking out at the grocery store, shooting the breeze with the other people in line and the guy behind him remarked that he was a pastor too. Of course the standard conversation happened. 'Oh which church?' The other guy responded, "THE Church, the one they talk about in the new testament."dermdoc said:
Do not disagree. I will say in my experience in Church leadership arguments were usually on petty things based on the usual things power, pride, and ego. Very rarely did I see actual moral things like adultery, etc. present as dividing subjects.
And my point was how can anyone read the verse I put on here and think only one specific church or whatever are the beneficiaries of God's Grace is hard to reconcile with Scripture.
The Thessalonians (TM) and Corinthians (TM) are all wholly owned subsidiaries of THE Church (TM)dermdoc said:
Didn't Paul write letters to numerous churches? And not just one?
I don't think that's in line with Christian thinking. The gospel is not exclusive. The scriptures say Christ died for all, that God wills all men to come to salvation. Christ Jesus is the firstborn from among the dead - not only for those who came after, but also before. He's the firstfruit, one of many, Jew and Gentile alike, i.e., all humans.Quad Dog said:
You guys are semi-mocking this small church for saying that out all of humanity that ever existed, only a few hundred people at the right place and right time is getting salvation. But isn't that basically main-stream Christianity, just on a smaller scale?
Main-stream Christianity believes that members of other religions don't get salvation, right? (I know someone is going to quote some priest or somebody and prove that sentence wrong, but if we could magically poll all Christians the vast majority would believe that) Therefore, all the billions of humans born in Asian countries have no realistic chance at salvation through Christianity. Also, all the billions of humans born before Christianity started also missed the boat. This Church seems to me the same mindset, just on a smaller scale.
Ya no doubt. Its silly.dermdoc said:
Do not disagree. I will say in my experience in Church leadership arguments were usually on petty things based on the usual things power, pride, and ego. Very rarely did I see actual moral things like adultery, etc. present as dividing subjects.
And my point was how can anyone read the verse I put on here and think only one specific church or whatever are the beneficiaries of God's Grace?
You are correct, and it's equally ridiculous when Christians of any kind say definitely that only they are saved. It's not up to usQuote:
You guys are semi-mocking this small church for saying that out all of humanity that ever existed, only a few hundred people at the right place and right time is getting salvation. But isn't that basically main-stream Christianity, just on a smaller scale?
Main-stream Christianity believes that members of other religions don't get salvation, right? (I know someone is going to quote some priest or somebody and prove that sentence wrong, but if we could magically poll all Christians the vast majority would believe that) Therefore, all the billions of humans born in Asian countries have no realistic chance at salvation through Christianity. Also, all the billions of humans born before Christianity started also missed the boat. This Church seems to me the same mindset, just on a smaller scale.
I give credit to most denominations that stand by John 3:16 and do not tack on any requirement to believe in a certain interpretation of the Bible.Quad Dog said:
You guys are semi-mocking this small church for saying that out all of humanity that ever existed, only a few hundred people at the right place and right time is getting salvation. But isn't that basically main-stream Christianity, just on a smaller scale?
Main-stream Christianity believes that members of other religions don't get salvation, right? (I know someone is going to quote some priest or somebody and prove that sentence wrong, but if we could magically poll all Christians the vast majority would believe that) Therefore, all the billions of humans born in Asian countries have no realistic chance at salvation through Christianity. Also, all the billions of humans born before Christianity started also missed the boat. This Church seems to me the same mindset, just on a smaller scale.
Texaggie7nine said:I give credit to most denominations that stand by John 3:16 and do not tack on any requirement to believe in a certain interpretation of the Bible.Quad Dog said:
You guys are semi-mocking this small church for saying that out all of humanity that ever existed, only a few hundred people at the right place and right time is getting salvation. But isn't that basically main-stream Christianity, just on a smaller scale?
Main-stream Christianity believes that members of other religions don't get salvation, right? (I know someone is going to quote some priest or somebody and prove that sentence wrong, but if we could magically poll all Christians the vast majority would believe that) Therefore, all the billions of humans born in Asian countries have no realistic chance at salvation through Christianity. Also, all the billions of humans born before Christianity started also missed the boat. This Church seems to me the same mindset, just on a smaller scale.
Saying that all you need to do is believe in and give your heart to Jesus is much broader than "our particular interpretation of the bible is the only way to heaven".
I don't see how that is analogous to Christianity vs the other religions.
The churches I grew up in did. The CoC private school I went to for a year did not. Nor did the CoC my step mother went to.dermdoc said:Texaggie7nine said:I give credit to most denominations that stand by John 3:16 and do not tack on any requirement to believe in a certain interpretation of the Bible.Quad Dog said:
You guys are semi-mocking this small church for saying that out all of humanity that ever existed, only a few hundred people at the right place and right time is getting salvation. But isn't that basically main-stream Christianity, just on a smaller scale?
Main-stream Christianity believes that members of other religions don't get salvation, right? (I know someone is going to quote some priest or somebody and prove that sentence wrong, but if we could magically poll all Christians the vast majority would believe that) Therefore, all the billions of humans born in Asian countries have no realistic chance at salvation through Christianity. Also, all the billions of humans born before Christianity started also missed the boat. This Church seems to me the same mindset, just on a smaller scale.
Saying that all you need to do is believe in and give your heart to Jesus is much broader than "our particular interpretation of the bible is the only way to heaven".
I don't see how that is analogous to Christianity vs the other religions.
The churches I have gone to have all believed that all you had to do was what you said. I assume the church you were at did not. Gospel means good news. A lot of Christians seem to have forgotten that.
And for me, Christianity is not a religion. It is a relationship. And John 3:17 is great too.
Plenty of room for you brother. Romans 8:1.Texaggie7nine said:The churches I grew up in did. The CoC private school I went to for a year did not. Nor did the CoC my step mother went to.dermdoc said:Texaggie7nine said:I give credit to most denominations that stand by John 3:16 and do not tack on any requirement to believe in a certain interpretation of the Bible.Quad Dog said:
You guys are semi-mocking this small church for saying that out all of humanity that ever existed, only a few hundred people at the right place and right time is getting salvation. But isn't that basically main-stream Christianity, just on a smaller scale?
Main-stream Christianity believes that members of other religions don't get salvation, right? (I know someone is going to quote some priest or somebody and prove that sentence wrong, but if we could magically poll all Christians the vast majority would believe that) Therefore, all the billions of humans born in Asian countries have no realistic chance at salvation through Christianity. Also, all the billions of humans born before Christianity started also missed the boat. This Church seems to me the same mindset, just on a smaller scale.
Saying that all you need to do is believe in and give your heart to Jesus is much broader than "our particular interpretation of the bible is the only way to heaven".
I don't see how that is analogous to Christianity vs the other religions.
The churches I have gone to have all believed that all you had to do was what you said. I assume the church you were at did not. Gospel means good news. A lot of Christians seem to have forgotten that.
And for me, Christianity is not a religion. It is a relationship. And John 3:17 is great too.
Texaggie7nine said:I give credit to most denominations that stand by John 3:16 and do not tack on any requirement to believe in a certain interpretation of the Bible.Quad Dog said:
You guys are semi-mocking this small church for saying that out all of humanity that ever existed, only a few hundred people at the right place and right time is getting salvation. But isn't that basically main-stream Christianity, just on a smaller scale?
Main-stream Christianity believes that members of other religions don't get salvation, right? (I know someone is going to quote some priest or somebody and prove that sentence wrong, but if we could magically poll all Christians the vast majority would believe that) Therefore, all the billions of humans born in Asian countries have no realistic chance at salvation through Christianity. Also, all the billions of humans born before Christianity started also missed the boat. This Church seems to me the same mindset, just on a smaller scale.
Saying that all you need to do is believe in and give your heart to Jesus is much broader than "our particular interpretation of the bible is the only way to heaven".
I don't see how that is analogous to Christianity vs the other religions.
Agree.BusterAg said:Texaggie7nine said:I give credit to most denominations that stand by John 3:16 and do not tack on any requirement to believe in a certain interpretation of the Bible.Quad Dog said:
You guys are semi-mocking this small church for saying that out all of humanity that ever existed, only a few hundred people at the right place and right time is getting salvation. But isn't that basically main-stream Christianity, just on a smaller scale?
Main-stream Christianity believes that members of other religions don't get salvation, right? (I know someone is going to quote some priest or somebody and prove that sentence wrong, but if we could magically poll all Christians the vast majority would believe that) Therefore, all the billions of humans born in Asian countries have no realistic chance at salvation through Christianity. Also, all the billions of humans born before Christianity started also missed the boat. This Church seems to me the same mindset, just on a smaller scale.
Saying that all you need to do is believe in and give your heart to Jesus is much broader than "our particular interpretation of the bible is the only way to heaven".
I don't see how that is analogous to Christianity vs the other religions.
You seriously, seriously rock. How many times have we been on opposing sides to a friendly argument about this?
Lots of love for you 79.
Texaggie7nine said:
What can I say? I'm a "cultural christian".
OK, then don't let rational thought keep you away.Texaggie7nine said:
Experience isn't the obstacle. Rational thought is.
Faith by definition is irrational. As is love.Texaggie7nine said:
Experience isn't the obstacle. Rational thought is.
