I believe in free will and salvation by grace alone provided freely by God through Christ to everyone but we have the ability to accept or reject God. After that, I honestly do not know if it is God alone through the Holy Spirit who causes us to produce fruit or whether it is a combination of my effort and God's. And I do not really care either way. I will say my mind has been transformed(slowly unfortunately)to where the most important thing to me is becoming more Christ like.diehard03 said:
yeah, yeah. But since you are excluding yourself from Calvinism...what are you including yourself in?
It is a little column A, a little of column B? (which is ok)
Good news is we all end up in the same place.Buck Turgidson said:
I can't accept Calvinist ideas either, nor do I feel the need to get locked in endless debates with Calvinists - the argument will be settled when we die.
Gee imagine that, treating someone with kindness even though they think differently about things than we do...dermdoc said:
I go to a weekly Bible study here in CS. Retired Aggie economic prof in our group is an outspoken Calvinist. And he and I have become great friends and I do not feel the need to spar with him as I know we both love the Lord.
dermdoc said:
You sure you aren't my daughter?
Oh I agree. And the Holy Spirit and the devil are very much real.i can testify.mwm said:
He has a way of doing that. Example: Paul.
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Seriously, my problem with Calvinism is with how the character of God is understood. The God that has been revealed to me through His grace and my personal relationship with Jesus Christ loves everybody. And is for them, not against them. The God I worship is sovereign, omnipotent, all powerful, yet loving and just. And I do not believe limited atonement and double predestination fit God's character. At least as revealed to me through the Holy Spirit.
Maybe. But not in the same way.dermdoc said:
The God that has been revealed to me through His grace and my personal relationship with Jesus Christ loves everybody.
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True, and God is God and can do whatever He wants.
Can he be something other than how you understand his character? e.g. not loving everybody the same?dermdoc said:
True, and God is God and can do whatever He wants.
Sure. I could be wrong. I hope not. And none of my Calvinist friends would type what I just did.Martin Q. Blank said:Can he be something other than how you understand his character? e.g. not loving everybody the same?dermdoc said:
True, and God is God and can do whatever He wants.
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I don't know if he is wrong. But he thinks I am. There is a difference. And that is the rub. Sometimes it seems being a Calvinist trumps everything else.
I'm sure they would agree that you could be wrong.dermdoc said:Sure. I could be wrong. I hope not. And none of my Calvinist friends would type what I just did.Martin Q. Blank said:Can he be something other than how you understand his character? e.g. not loving everybody the same?dermdoc said:
True, and God is God and can do whatever He wants.
I see it as God is all those things but in His divine wisdom he gave us choice. And I do not understand why that concept is hard to understand. Otherwise we are just robots without any sayso in anything we do.diehard03 said:Quote:
I don't know if he is wrong. But he thinks I am. There is a difference. And that is the rub. Sometimes it seems being a Calvinist trumps everything else.
Well, I can see the argument for it since you believe in a different characteristic about God that I would say it pretty significant. That's not to say you can't be brothers in Christ...but it will shape how you view different things.
Personally, I don't know how you square omnipotence/omniscience/creator with free will. So, you have to pick one or the other. To me, the only "wrong" thing is trying to do both.
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Otherwise we are just robots without any sayso in anything we do.
diehard03 said:Quote:
True, and God is God and can do whatever He wants.
Then how do you know your Calvinist friend is wrong?
