US Catholic Bishops abandoning their flock...

4,825 Views | 51 Replies | Last: 4 yr ago by PacifistAg
PabloSerna
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AG
Hmm, the Inquisition. Now that is a topic! Buck, you sound like you have your mind made up about my Church and my religious order - The Dominicans presided over many tribunals in Spain where the Order of Preachers was started by Dominic Guzman.

Is your understanding from Mel Brooks or from the Roman Catholic Church itself? There is a big difference and history has used the Inquisition as club against the RCC. This is more of a social forum, however, there are a number of scholarly books about the Inquisition that may shed light on a most misunderstood topic.

+Pablo

PacifistAg
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AG
Oh, and the US has bombed or destabilized 80+ countries in the last 70 years. If that's "American interests", then yes, the Church is absolutely, and rightly, opposed to them.
dermdoc
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AG
I love the United States but only have one Lord which is Jesus, the Son of God.

And yes, the US has done things I disagree with, but so has every religion, country, etc. in history. We are a fallen bunch and is exactly why we all need a Savior. And thank God for Him!
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dermdoc
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AG
And I have never understood the anti Catholic stuff propagated by Protestants. And anyone who does not realize that Protestants have committed as many atrocities as Catholics is not being honest imho. Does any believer believe that God allowed the Catholic/Orthodox Church to exist so long without changing it? And the Reformation was due to corruption not to significant changes in doctrine. Calvin loved Augustine. I understand the misgivings with giving a man, the Pope, infallibility. But we worship the same God. We all believe Jesus Christ is the Son of God who was crucified and then resurrected and now sits on the right side of God Almighty.

There is not going to be a Catholic section in Heaven. Or a Baptist section. Or an Orthodox section. Or whatever. It will be all those who truly love the Lord and have accepted the free gift of Grace.

And edited to add that as I read more Church father's and Orthodox beliefs actually everyone will be in the presence of God. It will be Paradise for those that love Him.
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PacifistAg
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AG
Agreed. In my experience, Protestants have gone so far (especially in Baptist circles) to avoid all things Catholic that there's a gross ignorance of Church history prior to the Reformation.
jkag89
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Quote:

. . . priests who helped smuggle Nazis out of Germany at the end of WWII.
Yes some priest with Fascist sympathies set up "ratlines" to smuggle out Nazi War criminals but I suggest you Google two names, Hugh O'Flaherty and Pere Marie-Benoit. Also you seem to ignore the thousands of Catholic clergy held at Dachau or the fact that the U.S. had their own system of "ratlines" to smuggle out Nazis they deemed valuable enough to ignore their crimes out of Soviet controlled areas.
jkag89
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It certainly goes both ways. Unfortunately It is far easier revile than to, as Aticus Finch says to Scout in to Kill a Mockingbird -

Quote:

You never really understand a person until you consider things from his point of view . . . until you climb into his skin and walk around in it.
One would hope as we would take the second road and at least try to understand the perspective of our brothers and sisters in Christ.
dermdoc
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AG
And I am not a Catholic but the KKK members were definitely not Catholics. Or Orthodox. Or Jews.
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Ordhound04
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AG
jkag89 said:

Quote:

. . . priests who helped smuggle Nazis out of Germany at the end of WWII.
Yes some priest with Fascist sympathies set up "ratlines" to smuggle out Nazi War criminals but I suggest you Google two names, Hugh O'Flaherty and Pere Marie-Benoit. Also you seem to ignore the thousands of Catholic clergy held at Dachau or the fact that the U.S. had their own system of "ratlines" to smuggle out Nazis they deemed valuable enough to ignore their crimes out of Soviet controlled areas.
Let us also not forget Saint Maximilian Kolbe, who was literally murdered at Auschwitz,

Let us not also forget that we have documents that show that German Catholic Nazis, in the 1930s, were considered to be excommunicated, and denied sacraments.
RAB91
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jkag89 said:

Quote:

. . . priests who helped smuggle Nazis out of Germany at the end of WWII.
Yes some priest with Fascist sympathies set up "ratlines" to smuggle out Nazi War criminals but I suggest you Google two names, Hugh O'Flaherty and Pere Marie-Benoit. Also you seem to ignore the thousands of Catholic clergy held at Dachau or the fact that the U.S. had their own system of "ratlines" to smuggle out Nazis they deemed valuable enough to ignore their crimes out of Soviet controlled areas.
Somehow I missed that line.... he went full ****** with that one.
PacifistAg
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AG
jkag89 said:

Quote:

. . . priests who helped smuggle Nazis out of Germany at the end of WWII.
Yes some priest with Fascist sympathies set up "ratlines" to smuggle out Nazi War criminals but I suggest you Google two names, Hugh O'Flaherty and Pere Marie-Benoit. Also you seem to ignore the thousands of Catholic clergy held at Dachau or the fact that the U.S. had their own system of "ratlines" to smuggle out Nazis they deemed valuable enough to ignore their crimes out of Soviet controlled areas.
Exactly. The US certainly holds no moral high ground w/ regards to this, given the existence of Operation Paperclip. Not to mention the S.S. St Louis travesty.
Zobel
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AG
Quote:

You're talking about the perpetrators of the "inquisition"...


Anyone who says something like this more or less has the same level of knowledge about the inquisition as someone who's seen the monte python skit.

Basically almost everything the average person knows about the Roman Catholic Church in history is wrong. And not just wrong, but dead wrong.
chimpanzee
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I grew up going mostly to (and was baptized in) the Episcopal church, but my parents were, less than committed, shall we say. They both grew up in Baptist families, but neither took to it personally. There were still mild anti-Catholic attitudes, with my maternal grandfather actually using some sort of backwood epithet for Catholics, not the only epithet he was fond of, being a life long working class Southern white guy born in the early 20th century.

I had learned the Nicene Creed in the Episcopal liturgy, and it all fit, and no one ever had any problem with Episcopals. Everything Baptist that I heard (from attending their services occasionally) worked right in to that delineation of faith and belief. I never really understood what "Nicene" referred to, so it was with some astonishment at the first Catholic Mass I attended, probably late in high school, that there I was in the pews saying the exact same profession of belief that I had known by heart for years with the people that "prayed to statues", which disappointingly didn't seem to be part of the liturgy.

People naturally look to hunker down within some larger group identity and factionalize, and the reasons for the various schisms, reformations, splits and doctrinal differences are worthy of study and debate, but it's not what's meaningful for our immortal souls, or at least I have faith that it is not.





Buck Turgidson
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RAB91 said:

jkag89 said:

Quote:

. . . priests who helped smuggle Nazis out of Germany at the end of WWII.
Yes some priest with Fascist sympathies set up "ratlines" to smuggle out Nazi War criminals but I suggest you Google two names, Hugh O'Flaherty and Pere Marie-Benoit. Also you seem to ignore the thousands of Catholic clergy held at Dachau or the fact that the U.S. had their own system of "ratlines" to smuggle out Nazis they deemed valuable enough to ignore their crimes out of Soviet controlled areas.
Somehow I missed that line.... he went full ****** with that one.
It's indisputable, documented fact.
Buck Turgidson
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RAB91 said:

SoulSlaveAG2005 said:

Buck Turgidson said:

PabloSerna said:

UTExan said:

If anything, the Catholic hierarchy is anti-American
Wow.. and this passes the smell test moderators??

+pablo



That is not really debatable. The Catholic Church has certain aims that are directly at odds with the best interests of the US, even when they don't have a marxist fraud as pope.




Please expound on the bolded section with specific aims that are in direct conflict with US interest.

Thanks
He's right if he adjust his statement to say 'the pope and a sizable number of American bishops' instead of 'The Catholic Church (and I'm Catholic).

We don't know why God is allowing this horrible pope to run our Church at this time. But we've survived worse and I'm confident we'll survive this.
Yes, it would be more accurate to say 'the pope and a sizable number of American bishops'. However, I thought the pope was supposed to be the embodiment of the Catholic Church, so I conflated the two in my posts. I do draw a distinction between the individual parishioners and the hierarchy, so I do believe that most individual Catholics are earnest Christians but I honestly doubt that your pope is even a Christian at all. Here's more insanity from the secular Marxist: https://texags.com/forums/16/topics/3063471

Buck Turgidson
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Since the thread I limked got deleted, here is a link to the article being discussed: https://www.breitbart.com/politics/2019/09/27/pope-francis-endorses-essay-trashing-u-s-conservative-christians/

A related response:
https://www.catholicworldreport.com/2017/07/14/on-that-strange-disturbing-and-anti-american-civilta-cattolica-article/


jkag89
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Buck Turgidson said:

RAB91 said:

jkag89 said:

Quote:

. . . priests who helped smuggle Nazis out of Germany at the end of WWII.
Yes some priest with Fascist sympathies set up "ratlines" to smuggle out Nazi War criminals but I suggest you Google two names, Hugh O'Flaherty and Pere Marie-Benoit. Also you seem to ignore the thousands of Catholic clergy held at Dachau or the fact that the U.S. had their own system of "ratlines" to smuggle out Nazis they deemed valuable enough to ignore their crimes out of Soviet controlled areas.
Somehow I missed that line.... he went full ****** with that one.
It's indisputable, documented fact.
And so is what I posted.
PacifistAg
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AG
When forum 16 shows up.
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