I have no problem with the USCCB being pro-immigrant and seeking to help get an opportunity for desperate people while pretty much disregarding national borders. Their priorities have nothing to do with the national sovereignty of the United States of America.

That being the case, I don't expect them to step into the overtly political framework of these discussions; it is not helpful. That political framework is why people (like me I suppose, I voted for the buffoon) elected someone that would take a poorly thought out "zero tolerance lite" approach to combat a politically exploitative crisis. Highlighting one tragedy because it draws attention to your other cause is shallow opportunistic punditry designed to appeal to emotion to be able to ignore parts of the issues that you'd rather pretend don't matter.

Meanwhile, the Guatemalan, El Salvadoran, Honduran and Mexican bishops aren't heard from at all.

The answers to his questions can be boiled down to this observation:

Quote:

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The response of Democrats and the media were virtually identicalnear-silence about the Far-Left Dayton shooting, but loud condemnation of the Far-Right El Paso shooting, linking it to the allegedly hate-filled, xenophobic rhetoric and bigotry of President Trump and his administration. No surprise there. To Democrats and the media, murder by someone on the Right is almost always a despicable act encouraged by hateful conservatives whereas the same act by someone on the Left is simply tragic.

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When you control the media...

UTExan said:

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If anything, the Catholic hierarchy is anti-American

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Wow.. and this passes the smell test moderators??

+pablo

chimpanzee said:

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Meanwhile, the Guatemalan, El Salvadoran, Honduran and Mexican bishops aren't heard from at all.

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I mean.. you know why right?? Those countries are anti-clerical. Recommend you check out the movie "Romero." True story. Better yet, talk to missionaries, they will tell you. Those countries are fine with feel good religions that don't advocate for human rights and encourage workers to organize.

+Pablo

Thaddeus73 said:

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apparently for the DNC...

Politically Correct USCCB

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Read it. Wasted 10 mins. Peanut gallery stuff.

+Pablo

PabloSerna said:

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UTExan said:

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If anything, the Catholic hierarchy is anti-American

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Wow.. and this passes the smell test moderators??

+pablo

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Yep. I am just as tough on the mainline Protestant denominations.

PabloSerna said:

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UTExan said:

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If anything, the Catholic hierarchy is anti-American

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Wow.. and this passes the smell test moderators??

+pablo

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Sure because as already pointed out by himself UTExan does not discrimination in calling groups unAmerican. For example the R&P board is the most unAmerican on all of TexAgs.

PabloSerna said:

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chimpanzee said:

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Meanwhile, the Guatemalan, El Salvadoran, Honduran and Mexican bishops aren't heard from at all.

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I mean.. you know why right?? Those countries are anti-clerical. Recommend you check out the movie "Romero." True story. Better yet, talk to missionaries, they will tell you. Those countries are fine with feel good religions that don't advocate for human rights and encourage workers to organize.

+Pablo

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Exactly.

Romero was a martyr, one would have hoped more would have picked up his cause, but I suppose the thugs just keep winning and the laity tolerates the political oppression of their faith despite their overwhelming demographics. These countries are deeply dysfunctional, but the RCC is still an important cultural force, perhaps it's not the native church that needs to speak out, but Rome and the USCCB.

We get things wrong, frequently, but we can at least discuss and redress our issues in elections.

With a few exceptions, the USCCB has become the religious wing of the DNC...Ignoring the hateful rhetoric of the left who say they want to assassinate Trump, while ballyhooing Trump's tweets as being racist, which he is not.

And then there is the George Soros $$$$$$

SOROS $$$

jkag89 said:

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PabloSerna said:

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UTExan said:

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If anything, the Catholic hierarchy is anti-American

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Wow.. and this passes the smell test moderators??

+pablo

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Sure because as already pointed out by himself UTExan does not discrimination in calling groups unAmerican. For example the R&P board is the most unAmerican on all of TexAgs.

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To be fair, I said anti-American, not un-American.

PabloSerna said:

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UTExan said:

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If anything, the Catholic hierarchy is anti-American

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Wow.. and this passes the smell test moderators??

+pablo

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That is not really debatable. The Catholic Church has certain aims that are directly at odds with the best interests of the US, even when they don't have a marxist fraud as pope.

Buck Turgidson said:

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PabloSerna said:

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UTExan said:

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If anything, the Catholic hierarchy is anti-American

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Wow.. and this passes the smell test moderators??

+pablo

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That is not really debatable. The Catholic Church has certain aims that are directly at odds with the best interests of the US, even when they don't have a marxist fraud as pope.

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I tell my kids all the time, "If you want people to take you seriously, don't exaggerate."

Both of you are exaggerating, cherry picking, whatever you want to call it. It is not true. Also, as an American and a Catholic, I take offense to the suggestion put forth. It is a clear bias by anti-religious. Can't argue with them, they will dig in and ignore truth. So I don't bother, but would hope that moderators of this board would, umm... moderate.. such nonsense.

+Pablo

Hey.. while we are at it. Put your names to some this will 'ya? We are full grown men and women aren't we?

EDIT to correct spelling.

Buck Turgidson said:

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PabloSerna said:

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UTExan said:

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If anything, the Catholic hierarchy is anti-American

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Wow.. and this passes the smell test moderators??

+pablo

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That is not really debatable. The Catholic Church has certain aims that are directly at odds with the best interests of the US, even when they don't have a marxist fraud as pope.

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Please expound on the bolded section with specific aims that are in direct conflict with US interest.

Thanks

SoulSlaveAG2005 said:

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Buck Turgidson said:

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PabloSerna said:

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UTExan said:

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If anything, the Catholic hierarchy is anti-American

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Wow.. and this passes the smell test moderators??

+pablo

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That is not really debatable. The Catholic Church has certain aims that are directly at odds with the best interests of the US, even when they don't have a marxist fraud as pope.

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Please expound on the bolded section with specific aims that are in direct conflict with US interest.

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+1

Also why do you believe the Catholic Church's aims should be in the best interest of the U.S.?

Catholicism is and will always be inherently at odds with philosophical liberalism. Always.

The meaning of "freedom" is opposite. Does it mean uniting suffering to Christ, and the freedom of overcoming the passions toward the beatific vision? Does a man have as many masters as he has vices? Or - is freedom the absence of restraint? The elevation of an abstracted "liberty," and "equality?"

The US is philosophical liberalism within the Enlightenment context to its very core.
So: problem for Catholics.

SoulSlaveAG2005 said:

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Buck Turgidson said:

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PabloSerna said:

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UTExan said:

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If anything, the Catholic hierarchy is anti-American

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Wow.. and this passes the smell test moderators??

+pablo

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That is not really debatable. The Catholic Church has certain aims that are directly at odds with the best interests of the US, even when they don't have a marxist fraud as pope.

---

Please expound on the bolded section with specific aims that are in direct conflict with US interest.

Thanks

---

He's right if he adjust his statement to say 'the pope and a sizable number of American bishops' instead of 'The Catholic Church (and I'm Catholic).

We don't know why God is allowing this horrible pope to run our Church at this time. But we've survived worse and I'm confident we'll survive this.

One way to untie the knot is what Ann Barnhardt has derailed pretty comprehensively, IMO: Benedict's "resignation" was not valid (meaning, did not follow established protocol), and we've got our 35th or so anti-pope. The case is not weak.

Stay faithful. The days are dark.

I don't know anything about Catholics, but it's church structure seems much more centralized compared to Protestantism. To go along with that, when there is a Pope who some Americans disagree with, then that may reflect negatively on the church.

texan12 said:

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I don't know anything about Catholics, but it's church structure seems much more centralized compared to Protestantism. To go along with that, when there is a Pope who some Americans disagree with, then that may reflect negatively on the church.

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It's worth getting to know. The history of the Roman Catholic Church shares a common root structure with the Protestants and all Christians. It's fascinating stuff.

The hierarchy and centralization will mean different things to everyone, some will practice as obsequious veneration of the earthly leader as they can manage while others will dismiss the Pope and the whole Curia as cranks and slime balls, and I'm only speaking of faithful churchgoing Catholics.

I pray for forgiveness of my sinfulness wherever I personally land on that spectrum, which varies by the day, hopefully never too close to the ends, however He may define "too close".

jkag89 said:

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SoulSlaveAG2005 said:

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Buck Turgidson said:

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PabloSerna said:

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UTExan said:

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If anything, the Catholic hierarchy is anti-American

---

Wow.. and this passes the smell test moderators??

+pablo

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That is not really debatable. The Catholic Church has certain aims that are directly at odds with the best interests of the US, even when they don't have a marxist fraud as pope.

---

Please expound on the bolded section with specific aims that are in direct conflict with US interest.

---

+1

Also why do you believe the Catholic Church's aims should be in the best interest of the U.S.?

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I am agreeing with the previous poster who used the term "anti-American". When you push an agenda that is bad for America, I believe that fits the definition of "anti-American".

Buck Turgidson said:

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I am agreeing with the previous poster who used the term "anti-American". When you push an agenda that is bad for America, I believe that fits the definition of "anti-American".

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To be fair, Christianity has an agenda that, at times, is against American policies. Does that mean Christianity is "anti-American"? Does that mean Christianity is wrong?

Buck Turgidson said:

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jkag89 said:

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SoulSlaveAG2005 said:

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Buck Turgidson said:

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PabloSerna said:

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UTExan said:

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If anything, the Catholic hierarchy is anti-American

---

Wow.. and this passes the smell test moderators??

+pablo

---

That is not really debatable. The Catholic Church has certain aims that are directly at odds with the best interests of the US, even when they don't have a marxist fraud as pope.

---

Please expound on the bolded section with specific aims that are in direct conflict with US interest.

---

+1

Also why do you believe the Catholic Church's aims should be in the best interest of the U.S.?

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I am agreeing with the previous poster who used the term "anti-American". When you push an agenda that is bad for America, I believe that fits the definition of "anti-American".

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Which does not answer the question, why do you (or UTExan) believe the Catholic Church's aims should be in the best interest of the U.S.?

jkag89 said:

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Buck Turgidson said:

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jkag89 said:

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SoulSlaveAG2005 said:

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Buck Turgidson said:

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PabloSerna said:

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UTExan said:

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If anything, the Catholic hierarchy is anti-American

---

Wow.. and this passes the smell test moderators??

+pablo

---

That is not really debatable. The Catholic Church has certain aims that are directly at odds with the best interests of the US, even when they don't have a marxist fraud as pope.

---

Please expound on the bolded section with specific aims that are in direct conflict with US interest.

---

+1

Also why do you believe the Catholic Church's aims should be in the best interest of the U.S.?

---

I am agreeing with the previous poster who used the term "anti-American". When you push an agenda that is bad for America, I believe that fits the definition of "anti-American".

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Which does not answer the question, why do you (or UTExan) believe the Catholic Church's aims should be in the best interest of the U.S.?

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I never said they should be. A previous poster said, and I agreed, that the Catholic Church and America's interests weren't aligned - that the pope was anti-American. You seem to be confusing should/shouldn't with are/aren't. It is not really debatable that the current pope specifically and the Catholic Church generally DO NOT have the best interest of the US at heart. They have their own agenda that is bad for America. That is a factual, stand-alone statement. I have said nothing so far about what SHOULD be the case.

PacifistAg said:

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Buck Turgidson said:

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jkag89 said:

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SoulSlaveAG2005 said:

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Buck Turgidson said:

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PabloSerna said:

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UTExan said:

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If anything, the Catholic hierarchy is anti-American

---

Wow.. and this passes the smell test moderators??

+pablo

---

That is not really debatable. The Catholic Church has certain aims that are directly at odds with the best interests of the US, even when they don't have a marxist fraud as pope.

---

Please expound on the bolded section with specific aims that are in direct conflict with US interest.

---

+1

Also why do you believe the Catholic Church's aims should be in the best interest of the U.S.?

---

I am agreeing with the previous poster who used the term "anti-American". When you push an agenda that is bad for America, I believe that fits the definition of "anti-American".

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If the Church's agenda is "anti-American", then that says far more about "American" interests than anything else. The Church (not just RCC) should always stand against worldly power, violence, and empire.

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1) The entire history of the Roman Catholic Church is ALL ABOUT worldly power, violence and empire. You're talking about the perpetrators of the "inquisition", participants in most of Europe's wars, enslavers and murderers of Indians in the New World (all as part of conversion), and priests who helped smuggle Nazis out of Germany at the end of WWII.

2) Your post would lead one to believe that the US is on some sort of imperialistic expansion and the Catholic Church was trying to thwart it. That's not even remotely the issue. Any student of geopolitics knows the US is rapidly pulling back from foreign entanglements and returning to its isolationist roots (read some Peter Zeihan books). The issues over which the US interests and those of the Catholic Church conflict have little to do with "power, violence and empire". They have more to do with screwing over the US in favor of broader globalist/Marxist aims.

No I'm not. UTExan made the statement that many of the "aims" of the Catholic Church are against to best interest of the U.S, and was simply wondering why he believed that the "aims" of the Church and the U.S. should coincide.

Buck Turgidson said:

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SoulSlaveAG2005 said:

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Buck Turgidson said:

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PabloSerna said:

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UTExan said:

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If anything, the Catholic hierarchy is anti-American

---

Wow.. and this passes the smell test moderators??

+pablo

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That is not really debatable. The Catholic Church has certain aims that are directly at odds with the best interests of the US, even when they don't have a marxist fraud as pope.

---

Please expound on the bolded section with specific aims that are in direct conflict with US interest.

Thanks

---

I am equating the Pope with the Catholic Church in this response. Just off the top of my head:

- The Catholic Church favors open borders and would love to see the US overrun with migrants from Central and South America. That's probably because those migrants would be overwhelmingly Catholic

- The current Pope is promoting the liberal lie of manmade climate change, which is a transparent scheme to hamper western economies and transfer wealth to less developed portions of the world

- The current Pope is anti-capitalist

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Would it be more fair for you to claim instead that the current pope has aims that are directly at odds with American interest? While the Pope is the figurative leader of the Church, would it have been fair for you to claim during President Obama's tenure that all of America is at odds with XYZ place or that the ideals/morals/teachings of America are at odds with XYZ place ?

Quote:

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2) Your post would lead one to believe that the US is on some sort of imperialistic expansion and the Catholic Church was trying to thwart it. That's not even remotely the issue. Any student of geopolitics knows the US is rapidly pulling back from foreign entanglements and returning to its isolationist roots (read some Peter Zeihan books). The issues over which the US interests and those of the Catholic Church conflict have little to do with "power, violence and empire". They have more to do with screwing over the US in favor of broader globalist/Marxist aims.

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Are we conquering lands and absorbing them anymore? No. Are we sending our military around the world to murder countless numbers and spread terror to force state's compliance to our demands? Absolutely. I was part of that machine and saw our evil firsthand.

And the RCC's job isn't to worry about "screwing over the US" or not. I'm not Catholic, and yes I know that they have a bloody history, just as Protestants do. But the Church (not RCC specifically, but the universal catholic church) is one that is borderless and their interests should never match the interests of inherently violent nation-states, which includes the US. The US isn't special.

So, one of the reasons I even post on this board is to witness to the truth of being a Catholic. Not just a "cafeteria Catholic" but a Catholic that is active in ministry, knowledgeable about the doctrine, and church history.

I say this because some of the things I am reading here are false. That the RCC sees migrants and poor people as "blessed" and in keeping with the principle of "preferential option for the poor" (you can Google it) is the RCC walking the walk - not just talking the talk. Politics has nothing to do with this teaching straight from the mouth of Jesus himself (what so ever you do to the least of these, so you do it unto me).

I want to remind you my brothers and sisters of that one commandment that goes along the lines of bearing false witness against thy neighbor. When you summarily judge the RCC as "anti-American" even after being witnessed that it is false - but you dig in - well, hopefully JC will see your point. I sure don't.

My advise - don't go there. Heck, I don't go there. I know zero, zip, nada, about Islam. Except that they too worship the God of Abraham. Same with LDS, Church of Christ, Jehovah Witness... no need to go there, unless there is a question or point of clarification.

Got a question.. ask! I will search and find the answer and then we can discuss the finer points.

+Pablo