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Yeah.... I didn't explain that well at all.... odd jump for sure

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no problem. I don't see this as a you vs me thing. It' an exercise in my own understanding. Take your time and get back whenever you want to.

I do sort of wonder why people don't think annihilation counts as judgement. After all, non-existentence is the single greatest "existential" anxiety for pretty much all of human history and probably prehistory as well. To live for less than 100 years and then be removed from existence. You'd be forgotten by the eternal people who lived on, and eventually in the scope of eternity your life and existence would have been essentially meaningless. People crave life, relevance, and meaning, and annihilation effectively removes all of those things. You don't need eternal conscious torture as a consequence of rejecting God. The above is plenty terrifying

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I do sort of wonder why people don't think annihilation counts as judgement.

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I was probably misunderstanding gordo (my fault), but I think annihilation is in line with judgement. I would probably stop at "possibility with no statement on probability" though.

This thread started with virtually nothing to do with hell. The issue is that some Christian entertainer can, by virtue of his musical ability, pass himself off as a great spiritual and intellectual leader, when in reality he's just another Forrest Gump running down the highway with a legion of groupies, right until the point where he says he's tired and is gonna go home now. Well, bye. I'm sorry if you thought you were wise, or important, or spiritual just because you had a bunch of groupies. You weren't really a leader; you were a codependent. Hope that helps.

I grew up Southern Baptist. My father was a deacon. I converted to Catholicism at 26.

My opinions of the Church, including recently on this forum, are VERY negative. I literally believe it has been infiltrated by demons at the highest level.

However.

The Sacraments - primarily, the Eucharist - provide a grounding, a "source and summit" for the Christian life.

We need liturgy.

We need Sacraments.

How far can go with emotions?

The Bible came from the Church. It is a product of the Church.

Turn to the Logos in the Sacraments.

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This thread started with virtually nothing to do with hell. The issue is that some Christian entertainer can, by virtue of his musical ability, pass himself off as a great spiritual and intellectual leader, when in reality he's just another Forrest Gump running down the highway with a legion of groupies, right until the point where he says he's tired and is gonna go home now. Well, bye. I'm sorry if you thought you were wise, or important, or spiritual just because you had a bunch of groupies. You weren't really a leader; you were a codependent. Hope that helps.

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Agree. Christian leaders should be the most Christ-like people among us. People whose faith has been tested and is stable. Unfortunately, a lot of churches take the most talented, attractive, or popular people and make them leaders. They use wordly criteria. I'm guessing the goal is to attract the world to the church with talent, beauty or popularity. And this is what happens when you go down that road. Now your talented, popular, attractive leaders don't pass a test of faith, and the blowback is terrible

In all my years of faithful practice, I have come to two undeniable facts.

1. There is a God
2. I'm not him.

In all my previous years as a Christian I have come to one solid conclusion.

If hell exists then God is evil and we shouldn't worship evil.

You have no problem with an eternal reward I assume but God must be evil because of YOUR view of "justice"?

Got it

Is an eternal reward worth it to you if it requires millions to eternally suffer?

Job (38:2), is that you?