Yea there is a different reason for that one
I am not really ignoring John 1:1. I just see the verse in a different context than most Christians. The gospel of John is completely different than the other three. The gospel of John is not a peshat writing, it is written in the sod. It is a mystic type of writing like Revelation.Quote:
As I stated, what we see is the interplay between the full humanity of Jesus and the Full divinity of Jesus. You seem to be ignoring John 1:1. Where John explicitly calls Jesus God. "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God."
Moreover Paul confirms this when he calls Jesus the Firstborn of Creation "prototokos" in Greek. Paul, notably, does not call Jesus "First Created" which is "Protoktisis".
Paul will also clarify the uncreated nature of Jesus by stating that all things were created by Jesus and that Jesus is before all "Things". Colossionas 16-17. A Jesus that is created is not God, since God is uncreated, but if Jesus, is uncreated, as Paul asserts, then Jesus is God, since only god is uncreated.
HaEmet said:
I am not really ignoring John 1:1. I just see the verse in a different context than most Christians. The gospel of John is completely different than the other three. The gospel of John is not a peshat writing, it is written in the sod. It is a mystic type of writing like Revelation.
The word logos in John 1:1 refers to God's creative self-expressionHis reason, purposes and plans, especially as they are brought into action. The logos is the expression of God, and is His communication of Himself, just as a "word" is an outward expression of a person's thoughts. This outward expression of God has now occurred through His Son, hence it is perfectly understandable why Jesus is called the "Word." Jesus is an outward expression of God's reason, wisdom, purpose and plan. For the same reason, we call revelation "a word from God" and the Bible "the Word of God."
If we understand that the logos is God's expressionHis plan, purposes, reason and wisdom, it is clear that they were indeed with Him "in the beginning." Scripture says that God's wisdom was "from the beginning" (Prov. 8:23). It was very common in Hebrew writing to personify a concept such as wisdom. No one reading Proverbs would think that God's wisdom was a separate person, even though it is portrayed as one in verses like Prov. 8:29-30: "when He marked out the foundations of the earth, I [wisdom] was the craftsman at His side."
Most Jewish readers of the Gospel of John in that time would have been familiar with the concept of God's "word" being with God as He worked to bring His creation into existence. There is an obvious working of God's power in Genesis 1 as He brings His plan into action by speaking things into being. The Targums are well known for describing the wisdom and action of God as His "word." This is especially important to note because the Targums are the Aramaic translations and paraphrases of the Old Testament, and Aramaic was the spoken language of many Jews at the time of the Messiah. Remembering that a Targum is usually a paraphrase of what the Hebrew text says, note how the following examples attribute action to the word:
- And the word of the Lord was Joseph's helper (Gen 39:2).
- And Moses brought the people to meet the word of the Lord (Ex 19:17).
- And the word of the Lord accepted the face of Job (Job 42:9).
- And the word of the Lord shall laugh them to scorn (Psalm 2:4).
- They believed in the name of His word (Psalm 106:12).
The above examples demonstrate that the Jews were familiar with the idea of God's Word referring to His wisdom and action. This is especially important to note because Jews were fiercely monotheistic, and did not in any way believe in a "Triune God." They were familiar with the idioms of their own language, and understood that the wisdom and power of God were being personified as "word."
Agree for the most part. I have read horror stories of the judgemental aspects(which I believe originated from the Lordship Salvation teachings) of his church but agree that his writings are good.DirtDiver said:
John MacArthur is a fantastic preacher and excellent student of the word. Listen to him as much as possible and learn lots. Like any pastor we must evaluate their teaching with the word of God to know if they are speaking truth. Yes, the Lordship doctrine drives me bonkers as well but I've learned so much else from his exposition. (The Battle for the Beginning is a great book)
LordShip Salvation explained: A person who truly believes in Jesus will display fruits of belief. In other words, they will submit their lives to the Lordship of Jesus. They lives would not be characterized by great sins and all will know them by their fruit (acts of obedience). They will also have desires to love others, serve, and read God's word. If they do not, this is evidence that they are not saved.
1st: This is not true. Salvation was completely paid for by the work of Jesus and is applied to our accounts through faith in Him. He gives us the Holy Spirit and with this comes a new conviction towards sin. All believers SHOULD at ALL TIMES surrender their lives to the Lordship of Jesus because He is worthy; however all Christians do not do this. Some get entangled into sin and the consequences of sin. These believers are not lost because of the grip that Jesus has on them.
2nd: The danger of this doctrine is that believers tend to look inwardly for assurance of salvation based upon their actions and desires. Their focus is removed from Jesus. Others tend to become fruit inspectors, thus looking for fruit in the lives of others and making judgments of 'saved' or 'not saved'. It's good to make these distinctions for the purpose of discipleship or sharing the gospel with them but fruit does not give us the answer.
To the Trinity discussion: This is just a way to describe what we see in the scriptures. Jesus claimed to be 'I AM". The audience responded appropriately. They either worshiped Him as God or tried to kill Him. There are tons of references both direct and indirect for the deity of Jesus.
Acts 20:28 Be on guard for yourselves and for all the flock, among which the Holy Spirit has made you overseers, to shepherd the church of God which He purchased with His own blood.
Duggins90 said:
God will do the judging is the message.
repentance of one's sin is for God's grace, not mine.
I am to Forgive 7x70.
dermdoc said:Duggins90 said:
God will do the judging is the message.
repentance of one's sin is for God's grace, not mine.
I am to Forgive 7x70.
I agree with that. You might google sgm survivors. And granted I am not a Calvinist or Lordship salvation guy as I believe salvation is a free gift of grace and faith in Christ's finished work is all one needs. I think it is a very slippery slope when "other stuff" is required as it can become pretty arbitrary. And exhorting your congregation is one thing, saying they are not saved based on your beliefs in Lordship salvation is something entirely different imho.