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What tribes are you pulling your assumptions from?

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Human tribes all over the world.

All successful societies all throughout history were achieved by ending violence and war amongst large populations of people. Usually through domination but also through cooperation these alliances would build more successful societies.

It is only natural that warring tribes would eventually find they enjoyed not trying to constantly kill and each one another but rather being at peace and focusing on prosperity. This is not some supernatural voice place within us. This is common sense.

Woody2006 said:

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PabloSerna said:

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Woody2006 said:

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PabloSerna said:

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Woody2006 said:

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Animals have a spirit. Humans have a soul

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This is an interesting thought. Do the animal spirits live on past their time on earth, or does only a soul remain for eternity?

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You mean Dog Heaven right?

So, I'm on record for telling my kids, that the God I have come to know and love, loves the same things I love, because God is love right? I loved my cat Fluffy (still do).. died when I was 12 years old. I believe, this animal will be there in Heaven (if and when) I get there.. that just makes sense. They just don't need to be "saved" like we do.

+Pablo

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Are you booboo? You don't quite write like him, but you kind of remind me of him.

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Lol.. booboo... nope!

Tell about this "booboo" character?

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Here's a good sampling:
https://texags.com/forums/15/topics/2922538/replies/50898124

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LOL... another Jesuit!

So - I'm not a Jesuit (SJ). My faith formation is Dominican (OP) so most of my philosophical underpinnings come from Thomas Aquinas. I pretty much start there and branch out. Views on Heaven, Hell, and Purgatory are pretty much the same between the Orders. I'm just a layperson, with an interest in a deeper understanding of certain teachings; Hell being one of them.

+Pablo

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Human tribes all over the world.

All successful societies all throughout history were achieved by ending violence and war amongst large populations of people. Usually through domination but also through cooperation these alliances would build more successful societies.

It is only natural that warring tribes would eventually find they enjoyed not trying to constantly kill and each one another but rather being at peace and focusing on prosperity. This is not some supernatural voice place within us. This is common sense.

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You mentioned cannibals. You made a broad generalization without evidence and cannot cite a tribe. These are all mere assumptions based upon how you see the world. The specific cannibals in the warring tribes I mentioned realized exactly the opposite of what you are saying.

Did they murder and eat others? Yes. Did they know it was wrong to do so? Yes. We know this because they didn't want to be eaten themselves nor offer up their children or loved ones to be eaten. They enacted revenge killings. If they didn't believe killing to be wrong, there would be no revenge. It would have been "oh you're hungry, please eat my grandpa for dinner"

All successful societies were achieved by ending violence? Name these societies and how many wars they fought.

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The specific cannibals in the warring tribes I mentioned realized exactly the opposite of what you are saying.

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They found that they were happier when they had to worry about other tribes coming in and killing their friends and family?

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Did they murder and eat others? Yes. Did they know it was wrong to do so? Yes. We know this because they didn't want to be eaten themselves nor offer up their children or loved ones to be eaten. They enacted revenge killings. If they didn't believe killing to be wrong, there would be no revenge. It would have been "oh you're hungry, please eat my grandpa for dinner"

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Are you seriously making this argument? Am I being punked?

You are saying that the tribe members knew that killing people in other tribes was objectively "wrong" because they themselves didn't want to be killed? And where are you proposing God comes in in that little equation?

Either you are making the case for morality achieved without any divine intervention and through reason alone, or you are saying that only can someone think something is not "wrong" if they are ok with it being done to them.
If the second is the case, how would you explain a soldier fighting for their country believing they were in the right, and at the same time not wanting the enemy soldier to kill them?

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All successful societies were achieved by ending violence? Name these societies and how many wars they fought.

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Any society that was large and lasted over 100 years. They mostly all fought wars outside their population, but their success was determined by how many they had in their population that did not commit violence on each other. Or in other words, how many people they acquired into their own tribe. For example, Ancient Rome fought constantly with bordering cultures, however once it conquered a culture, it integrated it, include their deities and made them a part of the "roman tribe". By having so many people included who all worked and lived together without killing each other, that is where the thriving came from.

The point is, history has proven that being at constant war with your neighbors is far more perilous to your tribes success than making allies and living in peace with them. Be that accomplished through diplomatic or military means.