Have you ever been through a split?
If you ask me the whole problem was born of Catholicism in the first place. There is a fundamental part of Catholicism that doesn't tolerate any dissent. Despite all the other reforms made by the initial Protestants, they took that intolerance of dissent to heart. Even a church of 15 people can't tolerate having 3 of them disagree with the pastor on a point of theology. To me the problem isn't difference of opinion, but lack of tolerance for difference of opinion. Catholicism avoids the constant schisms but asserting authority and demanding submission. Protestant churches can't do that, because they existy by defying that authority. So instead you end up with repeated schisms, but the root cause is the sameQuote:
Does the Spirit speak against Himself, especially on such a fundamental issue?
One of the reasons I converted to Catholicism.
There are actually only a few things in the Catholic Church that demand submission.ramblin_ag02 said:If you ask me the whole problem was born of Catholicism in the first place. There is a fundamental part of Catholicism that doesn't tolerate any dissent. Despite all the other reforms made by the initial Protestants, they took that intolerance of dissent to heart. Even a church of 15 people can't tolerate having 3 of them disagree with the pastor on a point of theology. To me the problem isn't difference of opinion, but lack of tolerance for difference of opinion. Catholicism avoids the constant schisms but asserting authority and demanding submission. Protestant churches can't do that, because they existy by defying that authority. So instead you end up with repeated schisms, but the root cause is the sameQuote:
Does the Spirit speak against Himself, especially on such a fundamental issue?
One of the reasons I converted to Catholicism.
yippee2 said:
What were the reasons?
Also, have you ever seen a church recover from a near split?
Dad-O-Lot said:There are actually only a few things in the Catholic Church that demand submission.ramblin_ag02 said:If you ask me the whole problem was born of Catholicism in the first place. There is a fundamental part of Catholicism that doesn't tolerate any dissent. Despite all the other reforms made by the initial Protestants, they took that intolerance of dissent to heart. Even a church of 15 people can't tolerate having 3 of them disagree with the pastor on a point of theology. To me the problem isn't difference of opinion, but lack of tolerance for difference of opinion. Catholicism avoids the constant schisms but asserting authority and demanding submission. Protestant churches can't do that, because they existy by defying that authority. So instead you end up with repeated schisms, but the root cause is the sameQuote:
Does the Spirit speak against Himself, especially on such a fundamental issue?
One of the reasons I converted to Catholicism.
There is a tremendous variety of opinion in the Catholic Church and much tolerance for these variations.
Yes. The church building was about 70 years old at that point. It was a few blocks from the square downtown, needed expansion and extensive renovation, but that wasn't possible given city codes regarding parking. There were too many people that attended and no way to acquire nearby land to turn into parking.yippee2 said:
Have you ever been through a split?
You will find practicing Catholics, and even Catholic Priests and Bishops, who have a variety of beliefs with regard to almost every one of the items on your list; and they are all still considered Catholic.ramblin_ag02 said:
Sure, as long as you don't count:
Divorce
Birth control
Women as clergy
Married men as clergy
Immaculate conception
Works as necessary for salvation
Infant baptism
Unleavened Eucharist
Veneration of Saints
Veneration of Icons
Sunday Worship
Crucifix not empty cross
Using Natural Law as a basis for human behavior
Being permissive of alcohol
Permitting instruments in worship
Godhead as a Trinity
Adherence to the Filoque
Papal primacy
Support for monasticism
Intolerance of homosexuality
Intolerance of fornication
Belief in purgatory
You know, all the things churches actually continue to split over. If you don't count all those things, then there is a wide variety of acceptable Catholic beliefs
swimmerbabe11 said:
Why is that neccessary? Why are the men incapable of standing up and passing the collection plate?
Oh, it wasn't due to a lack of willingness on men's part to do it. It was simply about expanding some of the roles for women to serve at the church.swimmerbabe11 said:
Im not saying that I would leave a church over it, but I would definitely be crotchety and say that the men could stand their lazy selves up and walk around with the plates and that they didnt need the women to do it.
M
swimmerbabe11 said:
Oh thats how it starts alright. Then you menfolk want us doing alllllll the heavy lifting and we can't even find one of you around when it's time to do the important stuff!
(Half joking)
swimmerbabe11 said:
The story of Jael teaches us that women are capable of doing the things men can do, but that doesn't mean that it isn't a failure on the men's part to do those things.