Immigration and the biblical law of the stranger

1,502 Views | 20 Replies | Last: 4 yr ago by UTExan
PacifistAg
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AG
Immigration and the biblical law of the stranger

Really good and interesting piece from The Christian Century. Also, I don't share this to make a point about Caesar's rules on immigration. Caesar will do what Caesar does. This is about how the body of Christ treats migrants.
Texaggie7nine
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In a world were no bad can come from allowing masses of poor people into your city/country, sure this makes sense. However, the way this article paints the picture is that those opposed to mass immigration are doing so because they don't like poor people, and don't want to help. This is a false dichotomy.

Take the Israel of today. In no way can they just simply take in poor immigrants haphazardly. They are under constant threat by those that do not want them to exist. Especially by the poorest of the region who are pawns of political power who oppose their existence as well.

The question of immigration is not one of "do we want to help out the poor or not". As long as proponents continue to frame it this way, they will get nowhere.
7nine
Martin Q. Blank
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Not sure ancient Israel is the example you want to use on how to treat neighboring citizens.
diehard03
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Quote:

However, the way this article paints the picture is that those opposed to mass immigration are doing so because they don't like poor people, and don't want to help. This is a false dichotomy.

You're not wrong, but I think the human experience shows us that racism is a bigger driver than real pragmatic altruism.
AGC
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AG
It's interesting in some respects but incomplete in others. For instance the poor are allowed to glean but any landowner with hired helpers left next to nothing for them. Gleaning was a step above starvation. I don't think that's what you're advocating for the poor immigrants. There's also an expectation of law following and a work ethic implicit, so how does that reconcile?
Texaggie7nine
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Racism plays very little role in advanced countries and xenophobia in today's age. It is primarily about cultural differences.

In this vein, there are good points on both sides. Yes, immigrants generally assimilate within a generation. But, there are also some types of immigrant groups that actively fight against assimilation and adoption of native culture. The latter is more common for immigrant groups that are fleeing bad situations and are only going to better off countries for financial reasons, and don't really care about becoming a culturally accepted member of their host country.
7nine
AGC
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diehard03 said:

Quote:

However, the way this article paints the picture is that those opposed to mass immigration are doing so because they don't like poor people, and don't want to help. This is a false dichotomy.

You're not wrong, but I think the human experience shows us that racism is a bigger driver than real pragmatic altruism.


It's not all racism. Culture matters too which was always a point of emphasis which God and His people.
AGC
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AG
Texaggie7nine said:

Racism plays very little role in advanced countries and xenophobia in today's age. It is primarily about cultural differences.

In this vein, there are good points on both sides. Yes, immigrants generally assimilate within a generation. But, there are also some types of immigrant groups that actively fight against assimilation and adoption of native culture. The latter is more common for immigrant groups that are fleeing bad situations and are only going to better off countries for financial reasons, and don't really care about becoming a culturally accepted member of their host country.


Some might call that colonialism.
Texaggie7nine
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Irrelevant in this discussion.
7nine
AGC
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Texaggie7nine said:

Irrelevant in this discussion.


I'm simply giving what you described a name. What you described is essentially colonialism, or neo-colonialism as it were. It certainly wouldn't have been tolerated in Israel of the Old Testament.
Texaggie7nine
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In that sense, it is relevant. I thought you were taking the often pushed left position that we took over the natives lands and imposed our culture, so we have no right to have a say who can come here.
7nine
AGC
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AG
Texaggie7nine said:

In that sense, it is relevant. I thought you were taking the often pushed left position that we took over the natives lands and imposed our culture, so we have no right to have a say who can come here.


Not at all. Colonialism is a multi-faceted beast and I believe it requires a more expansive definition than simply confining it to western europe's exploration of the world.
Win At Life
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PacifistAg said:

Immigration and the biblical law of the stranger

Really good and interesting piece from The Christian Century. Also, I don't share this to make a point about Caesar's rules on immigration. Caesar will do what Caesar does. This is about how the body of Christ treats migrants.


Nothing but a bunch of Old Testament quotes of ceremonial Laws that have been abrogated under the New Testament.
UTExan
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Win At Life said:

PacifistAg said:

Immigration and the biblical law of the stranger

Really good and interesting piece from The Christian Century. Also, I don't share this to make a point about Caesar's rules on immigration. Caesar will do what Caesar does. This is about how the body of Christ treats migrants.


Nothing but a bunch of Old Testament quotes of ceremonial Laws that have been abrogated under the New Testament.
The OT moral imperatives are clear, however. Even if we are frustrated by the current mass illegal immigration, these are people fleeing majority Catholic and Muslim countries where their fate is determined by their birth into the lower socioeconomic classes and as people a country which was blessed to have both abundant natural resources and the gospel of Jesus Christ proclaimed by Protestants, we should assist in their human needs.
diehard03
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Quote:

Racism plays very little role in advanced countries and xenophobia in today's age. It is primarily about cultural differences.

In this vein, there are good points on both sides. Yes, immigrants generally assimilate within a generation. But, there are also some types of immigrant groups that actively fight against assimilation and adoption of native culture. The latter is more common for immigrant groups that are fleeing bad situations and are only going to better off countries for financial reasons, and don't really care about becoming a culturally accepted member of their host country.

Sorry, I wasn't being clear. i was meaning xenophobia in general and not specifically racism. Wrong word choice.

edit: wow, me fail english, that's unpossible.
AGC
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AG
Agree with this sentiment. Our understanding of morality and Jesus' words can and should be informed by the OT and God's commands for His people, rather than our own interpretation. Though, we should not entirely confuse it with how we are to live as gentiles.
UTExan
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AGC said:

Agree with this sentiment. Our understanding of morality and Jesus' words can and should be informed by the OT and God's commands for His people, rather than our own interpretation. Though, we should not entirely confuse it with how we are to live as gentiles.

Amen.
PacifistAg
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AG
Our understanding of morality and the OT can and should be informed by the life and teachings of Jesus Christ. Only one is the exact representation of God's nature. The other is a shadow. The Word is the hermeneutic key to understanding the word.
Win At Life
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AGC said:

how we are to live as gentiles.


Are you setting up a wall of separation between Gentiles and others?
Win At Life
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UTExan said:

Win At Life said:

PacifistAg said:

Immigration and the biblical law of the stranger

Really good and interesting piece from The Christian Century. Also, I don't share this to make a point about Caesar's rules on immigration. Caesar will do what Caesar does. This is about how the body of Christ treats migrants.


Nothing but a bunch of Old Testament quotes of ceremonial Laws that have been abrogated under the New Testament.
The OT moral imperatives are clear, however. Even if we are frustrated by the current mass illegal immigration, these are people fleeing majority Catholic and Muslim countries where their fate is determined by their birth into the lower socioeconomic classes and as people a country which was blessed to have both abundant natural resources and the gospel of Jesus Christ proclaimed by Protestants, we should assist in their human needs.


So don't follow the Old Covenant that was abolished, but follow the OT imperatives?

Got it.
commando2004
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The ger being referenced in that passage refers to a convert or semi-convert to Judaism. Not just any idiot who happened to walk across the border into Israel. There were standards.
UTExan
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The OT and NT are consistent in this matter. God reminds the Israelites that they were once strangers in Egypt. And in the NT we are commanded that pure faith is caring for the orphans and widows who have no other means of support. As a people being transformed into the image of Jesus, we should have the same concerns he has. That includes society's vulnerable. We can debate how that should happen (such as tightly controlled legal immigration vs the near anarchy we see now) but the concern for Jesus' people is to minister to those immediate needs.
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