What are suicidal thoughts?

1,452 Views | 9 Replies | Last: 5 yr ago by tehmackdaddy
swimmerbabe11
How long do you want to ignore this user?
https://theoutline.com/post/7267/living-with-passive-suicidal-ideation?zd=1&zi=axp2huf7

This article popped up in my world today and I found it fascinating, because I had been thinking about this subject the other day.

What is considered a suicidal thought? This author projects that any desire, no matter how passive, for life to end is suicidal. Had you asked me, I would have said only an active desire to end one's own life is all that counts until I read this...merely not wanting to continue isn't enough.

Do Christians get a longer leash on this definition since we look forward to the life to come?
schmendeler
How long do you want to ignore this user?
AG
I assume we are talking about things more substantive than "intrusive thoughts" that everyone can have at any time?
swimmerbabe11
How long do you want to ignore this user?
Well yeah, I guess that's the question. I'm guessing nobody would consider "i wonder what it is like to die" as suicidal. However, this author seems to consider "I'm not sure I care if I live past the season finale of Crazy Ex Girlfriend" to be suicidal. (What a show to pick to live for btw)

Is there a hard and fast rule to what counts?
Martin Q. Blank
How long do you want to ignore this user?
That's like asking what counts as being angry. What's the point here?
americathegreat1492
How long do you want to ignore this user?
Suicidal ideation or thoughts of death vary in intensity/amount along a continuum. As the years go by, there is a push to incorporate more of that into our models of disorder.
swimmerbabe11
How long do you want to ignore this user?
Martin Q. Blank said:

That's like asking what counts as being angry. What's the point here?


That's not really fair. There are words to describe the scale of anger...irritated and enraged aren't going to be confused for one another.

The point, I suppose is that the article is wishing that this scale would be discussed more.
americathegreat1492
How long do you want to ignore this user?
To answer the question regarding Christianity, I think there is certainly a "death wish" like element to longing for the age to come. It implies a dissatisfaction with one's current state. I think the current models of disorder are important to consider in trying to answer the leash question. What I am about to say may seem controversial at first pass, but it is not. Thinking of death is not problematic in and of itself. Disorder criteria incorporates the 4 D's into the discussion (where relevant).

Deviance
Dysfunction
Distress
Danger


Only when the intensity of some behavior, thought, or emotion reaches a point where it is characteristic of high levels of danger, distress, or dysfunction is it considered a disorder. One could argue that symptoms become problematic before they reach disorder levels, and that's understandable.

I think that in the case of Christians longing for the life after death, it is not usually problematic. We aren't called to live dysfunctional, distressing, or dangerous lives with respect to that symptom per se. Having said that, there is a place where the disorder model breaks down. Religious behavior can manifest itself in dangerous, distressing, or dysfunctional ways, especially when people go out proselytizing in places where they aren't welcome. I think this is where we can discard the disorder model, because where clinicians answer only to the world's sense of ethics or values, we answer to God, the ultimate arbiter of all values.
ramblin_ag02
How long do you want to ignore this user?
AG
americathegreat1492 said:

To answer the question regarding Christianity, I think there is certainly a "death wish" like element to longing for the age to come. It implies a dissatisfaction with one's current state. I think the current models of disorder are important to consider in trying to answer the leash question. What I am about to say may seem controversial at first pass, but it is not. Thinking of death is not problematic in and of itself. Disorder criteria incorporates the 4 D's into the discussion (where relevant).

Deviance
Dysfunction
Distress
Danger


Only when the intensity of some behavior, thought, or emotion reaches a point where it is characteristic of high levels of danger, distress, or dysfunction is it considered a disorder. One could argue that symptoms become problematic before they reach disorder levels, and that's understandable.

I think that in the case of Christians longing for the life after death, it is not usually problematic. We aren't called to live dysfunctional, distressing, or dangerous lives with respect to that symptom per se. Having said that, there is a place where the disorder model breaks down. Religious behavior can manifest itself in dangerous, distressing, or dysfunctional ways, especially when people go out proselytizing in places where they aren't welcome. I think this is where we can discard the disorder model, because where clinicians answer only to the world's sense of ethics or values, we answer to God, the ultimate arbiter of all values.

Great post. There is definitely a continuum of emotions ranging from "I will do everything in my power to stay alive" to "I will do everything in my power to kill myself". We tend to see everything on one side as normal and everything on the other as a disorder, but it isn't always that easy.

Extreme stress/grief and hospice are 2 times this comes up for me on a near daily basis. People in extreme stress will often passively hope for an end to their life for a short time. For instance, if your spouse of 50 years passes away you may hope that you will soon follow. Or if you lose your job, end up homeless, are abused or trafficked or addicted you may wish for the burden of your life to be lifted from you. Hopefully this is temporary and fixes itself as the situation improves. This can be a normal reaction to overwhelming circumstances.

If you have a terminal illness and accept the fact you could die at any time, then you will naturally not be distressed at the thought. The idea that you might not be alive tomorrow is no big deal, and if you're in a ton a pain you may wish the end would come sooner. I see Christianity in a similar light. Christians shouldn't have a drastic existential fear of death, and we shouldn't be distressed by the thought of our mortality. Under the right amounts of stress or hardship we may even wish to "go be with Jesus" sooner rather than later. Again, this is normal.

Sometimes the line of normal to disorder gets blurry, and the quoted post is a great way to help separate out the difference
No material on this site is intended to be a substitute for professional medical advice, diagnosis or treatment. See full Medical Disclaimer.
94chem
How long do you want to ignore this user?
Quote:

Under the right amounts of stress or hardship we may even wish to "go be with Jesus" sooner rather than later. Again, this is normal.
Seems like Paul wrote about this...
94chem
How long do you want to ignore this user?
Martin Q. Blank said:

That's like asking what counts as being angry. What's the point here?
Usually to prove whether you are Reformed enough or not. You have to drink one beer and watch an R-rated movie while having the discussion.
tehmackdaddy
How long do you want to ignore this user?
AG
94chem said:

Quote:

Under the right amounts of stress or hardship we may even wish to "go be with Jesus" sooner rather than later. Again, this is normal.
Seems like Paul wrote about this...

I desire to depart and be with Christ, which is better by far, but it is more necessary for you that I remain in the body.
Refresh
Page 1 of 1
 
×
subscribe Verify your student status
See Subscription Benefits
Trial only available to users who have never subscribed or participated in a previous trial.