Are there any more fellow SSPXers on the board?

SoulSlaveAG2005 said:

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Not me. But I do enjoy the music of NOFX & MXPX.

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I am unfamiliar

Benedictus Dominus said:

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SoulSlaveAG2005 said:

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Not me. But I do enjoy the music of NOFX & MXPX.

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I am unfamiliar

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MXPX is Christian Green Day

So I had to look it up

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The Society of Saint Pius X, also known as the SSPX, the FSSPX or Lefebvrians, is an international priestly fraternity founded in 1970 by Marcel Lefebvre, the French titular archbishop of the Roman Catholic diocese of Synnada in Phrygia.

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Sounds kinky

according to wiki there are only like 983 members worldwide. it's a very exclusive secret club.

schmendeler said:

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according to wiki there are only like 983 members worldwide. it's a very exclusive secret club.

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Really? I would think we have about that many clergy. If I remember correctly we have around 700,000 or so members.

I think you misread, here is what Wiki says

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As of 22 April 2018, the Society has 637 priests present in 37 countries and active in 35 more, 772 Mass centers, 167 priories, 123 religious brothers, 200 religious sisters, 79 oblates, 204 seminarians in six seminaries, 56 pre-seminarians in three pre-seminaries, more than 100 schools, 7 nursing homes, 4 Carmelite convents, 19 Missionary Sisters of Kenya, and 2 university-level institutes.

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schmendeler said:

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according to wiki there are only like 983 members worldwide. it's a very exclusive secret club.

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It is also a club not in communion with the Holy See and is borederline schismatic.

http://canonlawmadeeasy.com/2011/10/05/canon-law-and-the-sspx/

Benedictus Dominus said:

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Are there any more fellow SSPXers on the board?

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First rule of SSPX is to not talk about SSPX. But welcome brother.

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Membership

971 (637 priests)

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https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Society_of_Saint_Pius_X

perhaps i'm looking at the wrong club?

I have a friend from high school who WAS a priest in SSPX. After about 20 years, he grew to believe they were schismatic and left.

There is now an FSSP in our diocese if one just really prefers that Mass. Is yours just a Mass preference or are you a sede vacantist?

schmendeler said:

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Quote:

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Membership

971 (637 priests)

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https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Society_of_Saint_Pius_X

perhaps i'm looking at the wrong club?

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They're just counting clergy and religious I believe; not the laity.

wbt5845 said:

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I have a friend from high school who WAS a priest in SSPX. After about 20 years, he grew to believe they were schismatic and left.

There is now an FSSP in our diocese if one just really prefers that Mass. Is yours just a Mass preference or are you a sede vacantist?

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FSSP are a great group of guys, they were the breakaways from SSPX who left after the Econe consecrations. We are not sedevacantists either, we acknowledge the legitimate authority of all Popes.

Win At Life said:

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Benedictus Dominus said:

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wbt5845 said:

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I have a friend from high school who WAS a priest in SSPX. After about 20 years, he grew to believe they were schismatic and left.


There is now an FSSP in our diocese if one just really prefers that Mass. Is yours just a Mass preference or are you a sede vacantist?

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FSSP are a great group of guys, they were the breakaways from SSPX who left after the Econe consecrations. We are not sedevacantists either, we acknowledge the legitimate authority of all Popes.

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And I can appreciate how they really want to reform things back to the original Latin language of Jesus.

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I love the universality of the latin mass, I have had the great joy of participating in the sacrifice of the mass in many different countries; and it is a true testament to the catholicity of our faith with the priest offering the sacrifice in the same direction, in the same language. It is beautiful. As a people our bodies and our actions give meaning and import to the occasion, and the Tridentine mass shows the gravity and solemnity of what is actually occurring during the sacrifice far better than the Novus Ordo mass, where the priest gives a joke homily, and a bunch of your friends go up to the altar to frisbee out the body of Christ to the laity.

"...what is actually occurring during the sacrifice far better than the Novus Ordo mass, where the priest gives a joke homily, and a bunch of your friends go up to the altar to frisbee out the body of Christ to the laity."

Come on man.

XUSCR said:

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"...what is actually occurring during the sacrifice far better than the Novus Ordo mass, where the priest gives a joke homily, and a bunch of your friends go up to the altar to frisbee out the body of Christ to the laity."

Come on man.

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it was surely hyperbole; but the majesty of the mass has been lost I feel in a rush to try and make things more palatable and "interesting" to the laity.

Altar rails take too long so just do away with them, receiving on the tongue is icky and a broach of personal space so just take it into your hand, communion takes too long so just recruit a bunch of lay people to distribute the precious body and blood of Christ rather than a Priest or Deacon, discussing the Gospel is boring so have the Priest tell some jokes about something funny that happened during the week.

With these novelties we have lost so much about what makes us special, and it shows in the weakening of our core beliefs.

Look at the huge disparity in beliefs between those attending the Tridentine mass and those attending Novus Ordo mass

[url=https://imgbb.com/][/url]

AstroAg17 said:

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45% of Catholics who attended church weekly said contraception was acceptable. 42% said it wasn't a moral issue. Your chart claims 89% of Catholics approve of contraception (that it's referring to Catholics who attend weekly is implied).

So the first stat is a lie and that's the only one I've checked.

http://www.pewforum.org/2016/09/28/4-very-few-americans-see-contraception-as-morally-wrong/

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I think your numbers are still a little off, 41% said morally unacceptable, 48% said not a moral issue; I'm sure they just added the two to get the 89%

Universality of Latin? As in universally no one in the laity is fluent?

AstroAg17 said:

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I was looking at those who attend weekly because I misread your post. I'm not sure how your poll collected its numbers but I bet they're biased with respect to attendance.

You can't add the number of people who describe something as "acceptable" to the number of those who think the question doesn't apply and then say that many "aprove". That's a lie.

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It does seem misleading, however I can tell you in the traditional catholic circles; saying something that gravity of contraception is "not a moral issue" could be considered as saying it is acceptable or approving of such a behavior; there isn't a lot of shades of grey as far as moral issues are concerned, at least as far as the objective action goes.

wbt5845 said:

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So, you accept primacy of all the popes and yet joke and belittle the Ordinary Form of the Mass that is promulgated by these popes?

The Ordinary Form is just as licit as the Tridentine and the Extraordinary Forms. At least I have no doubt the priest who sanctifies the Eucharist I receive is in communion with the Church. You may claim the same, but your comments about the Church made above cast doubt on the sincerity of that claim.

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I agree. There is certainly a debatable point about the aesthetics of the EF and the Tridentine and OF, but there is no debate about the relative "licitness" of any of them. They are all licit and it's the real presence of the body, blood, soul and divinity of Christ that we receive in the consecrated bread and wine from any of these.

I have never claimed that the ordinary form is not licit, merely that it's a shame and a travesty, especially with how the rules and regs for how the NOM have even been stretched to the max. EMHC's are supposed to be extraordinary, and I've yet to participate in a NOM that didnt have them. I haven't seen an altar rail at regular Parish for years.

They've had halloween costume masses that have been licit, I've seen a priest dressed in jogging shorts and tennis shoes with a race timer behind the altar who had a starter's piston fire at the procession and sprinted out the doors into his marathon, I hear clapping after homilies, none of that invalidate the consecration or the Sunday obligation, but that doesn't make them appropriate.

Benedictus Dominus said:

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I have never claimed that the ordinary form is not licit, merely that it's a shame and a travesty, especially with how the rules and regs for how the NOM have even been stretched to the max. EMHC's are supposed to be extraordinary, and I've yet to participate in a NOM that didnt have them. I haven't seen an altar rail at regular Parish for years.

They've had halloween costume masses that have been licit, I've seen a priest dressed in jogging shorts and tennis shoes with a race timer behind the altar who had a starter's piston fire at the procession and sprinted out the doors into his marathon, I hear clapping after homilies, none of that invalidate the consecration or the Sunday obligation, but that doesn't make them appropriate.

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I don't doubt those things have happened. But if they happened at my parish, I would walk out and find a new parish.

We routinely have 2000 at our 10 AM Sunday mass. If we had to go to the altar rail, we'd be there all day. If someone wants to kneel to receive, they are welcome to do so.

wbt5845 said:

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Benedictus Dominus said:

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I have never claimed that the ordinary form is not licit, merely that it's a shame and a travesty, especially with how the rules and regs for how the NOM have even been stretched to the max. EMHC's are supposed to be extraordinary, and I've yet to participate in a NOM that didnt have them. I haven't seen an altar rail at regular Parish for years.

They've had halloween costume masses that have been licit, I've seen a priest dressed in jogging shorts and tennis shoes with a race timer behind the altar who had a starter's piston fire at the procession and sprinted out the doors into his marathon, I hear clapping after homilies, none of that invalidate the consecration or the Sunday obligation, but that doesn't make them appropriate.

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I don't doubt those things have happened. But if they happened at my parish, I would walk out and find a new parish.

We routinely have 2000 at our 10 AM Sunday mass. If we had to go to the altar rail, we'd be there all day. If someone wants to kneel to receive, they are welcome to do so.

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I think your comment hit the nail on the head. The post Vatican II Catholic Church values quantity over quality, convenience over solemnity and reverence. I hope your church is special, and you have 2,000 dogmatic orthodox zealots, but the truth is so few believe absolutely fundamental Catholic precepts. 50% or so believe in the real presence, 20% attend weekly mass, you literally cannot be logically considered in communion with the Church if those two are not met, barring some incredible lapse in formation leading to genuine ignorance.

What if your church was 400 true believers instead of 2000 warm bodies? Would you be able to give the risen lord the respect he deserves? Rather than speed everyone through an emhc?

All I can control is the respect and belief I give. My only preference is in regards to my own disposition.

wbt5845 said:

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All I can control is the respect and belief I give. My only preference is in regards to my own disposition.

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That sounds very protestant, as if you're saying that your personal relationship with christ is all that matters. We are members of the Body of Christ, not the individuality of Christ. Everything we do emphasize the universality and communion of our profession. The bible emphasizes the role of the church in correcting our brothers and sisters.

Perhaps you misspoke and I'm being too harsh, if so I apologize

Because, let's be honest. The Tridentine mass Is not the liturgy described by Justin martyr.

Ordhound04 said:

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While I am a personal fan of smells & bells. One should be careful when flippantly dismissing a homily simply because it contains humorous rhetoric.

Fulton Sheen would often began each of his own talks and sermons with a joke. From what I remember, the homilies of Thomas Aquinas we're not exactly doctoral dissertations either, when compared to his summa.

Maybe rather than denigrating the Novus ordo, maybe focus on Liturgical abuse. Because it's a bit disingenuous to say that the lack of the Latin mass is the reason why Catholics Are less In agreement with Certain Catholic teachings.

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Liturgical abuse I believe is a direct effect of the loss of reverence and solemnity of the mass. You do not see liturgical abuses in TLM because the laity is so clued into the mass and the clergy is so focused on the liturgy there are no room for mistakes.

The Novus Ordo itself is problematic, but I will meet you halfway and say that the liturgical abuses are the real horror, I consider the two linked however.

Quick question, I think I met you at a trade show once. Was your brother in FDT?