Martin Luther and My Ignorance of History

1,909 Views | 11 Replies | Last: 5 yr ago by Zobel
boboguitar
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AG
I bought The Rise and Fall of the Third Riech on audiobook and have been making my way through it. I just got the part where the author describes the persecution of Catholics and Christians before the war. While there was some understanding between the Catholics and the Nazis at first, Hitler betrayed the terms agreed upon himself and Pope Pious shortly after agreeing to them, to which Pious publically and vocally called out the German leader. The protestant sects were a bit more split. Some opposed the Nazi's but didn't have the power to do anything and a large amount actually welcomed the Nazi ideas of racial theory and called for a quasi-state protestant religion. The author then went on to try and explain the history of Germany and anti-semitism as it wasn't anything new when Hitler took power.

He started off with Martin Luther, which due to my ignorance of history, I had no idea how pervasive and shocking where his anti-semetic jews.

He wrote a treatise on it called On the Jews and their Lies.



Quote:

"First, to set fire to their synagogues or schools This is to be done in honor of our Lord and of Christendom, so that God might see that we are Christians "
"Second, I advise that their houses also be razed and destroyed.
"Third, I advise that all their prayer books and Talmudic writings, in which such idolatry, lies, cursing, and blasphemy are taught, be taken from them."
"Fourth, I advise that their rabbis be forbidden to teach henceforth on pain of loss of life and limb "
"Fifth, I advise that safe-conduct on the highways be abolished completely for the Jews. For they have no business in the countryside "
"Sixth, I advise that usury be prohibited to them, and that all cash and treasure of silver and gold be taken from them "
"Seventh, I recommend putting a flail, an ax, a hoe, a spade, a distaff, or a spindle into the hands of young, strong Jews and Jewesses and letting them earn their bread in the sweat of their brow But if we are afraid that they might harm us or our wives, children, servants, cattle, etc., then let us emulate the common sense of other nations such as France, Spain, Bohemia, etc., then eject them forever from the country "


Before this, I had only heard about what he did to the Catholic church and then what he did for the peasant class. Anyways, this sentiment carried on far after his death and a lot of what he called the authorities to do, Hitler himself actually did.

I have no questions or statements on this topic except to welcome further clarification on history. I was just shocked at learning this as it went completely against the caricature of Luther I had in my head.
Zobel
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AG
Yeah some of the irony is that most of the accusations we make against the medieval Catholic Church are more or less ridiculous propaganda and projection that have entered the public consciousness. Especially folks of Protestant German and English descent.
Frok
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AG
From what I understand Martin Luther basically lost his mind as he got older and that is when many of his anti-semitic writings were written. But I've never read extensively on him. Maybe I should.
diehard03
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Quote:

Yeah some of the irony is that most of the accusations we make against the medieval Catholic Church are more or less ridiculous propaganda and projection that have entered the public consciousness. Especially folks of Protestant German and English descent.

I think it's a case of "if you're looking for it, you'll find it".

I have no doubt that the Catholic Church did both honorable God-abiding things as well as abominable ones throughout history.

I also have no doubt that many Protestant heros did the same thing.

To even bring it closer to me, I attended Bill Hybels church for a time and saw a great many things he did that was God honoring. His latest sins are horrific, however.

its like God had a good reason to have himself be glorified instead of man.
Zobel
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AG
Sure but there's a lot of "everybody knows" that is blatantly falsely. what "everybody knows" about Galileo and the church is wrong. And likewise the Spanish Inquisition. And persecution of Jews. Most of it is literally fake news, political propaganda. But because we inherit a lot of our cultural framework from the cultures making this propaganda, we don't test it, we just accept it as true. Because "everybody knows". Just like "everybody knows" that the ancients thought the world was flat until Columbus. Hogwash. But ignorance prevails, because the big lie works.
Win At Life
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AG
I suspect few would want to count John Calvin as a friend either.

Calvin, the Tyrant of Geneva
Win At Life
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AG
Luther, Calvin and the Popes are all examples of the Nicolaitan heresy, which is condemned in Rev 2:6 & 15 and means victory (or lordship) (Nico) over the laity. Virtually all churches use this model of leadership over THEIR flock. It's extremely hard NOT to fall into this model.

One of the best ways to avoid this is for the leadership to NOT take money from preaching God's Word. That's how we've organized the congregation I attend.
AgLiving06
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Wait what?
titan
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S
Frok said:

From what I understand Martin Luther basically lost his mind as he got older and that is when many of his anti-semitic writings were written. But I've never read extensively on him. Maybe I should.

A caution. The notable streak of anti-semitism you do find in the Medieval days (which is what Luther is somewhat inheriting, the immediate background he is coming out of) is quite real. But goes all the way back to Christian and Jewish divide in the 2nd Century (never mind also the whole Trial of Jesus imagery earlier). The reorganizers of Jewish thought after the Roman leveling of Judea (twice) and various diasporas pronounce a number of anathemas on Christians. Messianic Jews also get hammered. Instead of looking too closely at Luther, understand the anti-semitism goes way back for a number of reasons, and it not unilateral --but often mutual. Whatever word would mean reverse anti-semitism is also present. Christian vs Jew, Jew vs Christian. With various authorities sometimes trying to play balancer. Caliphs had issues with this because of Islam's initial even-handedness. So did Persian Kings.

To try to understand Martin Luther, you must immerse yourself in his age. An age where spiritual beliefs were thought to have material and eternal consequences.

AgLiving06
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I'm not intending this to be a defense of Martin Luther. The LCMS has issued a formal proclamation on this book in particular.

Before I post that, as titan mentioned, it's important to recognize a bunch of different things.

1. Luther truly believed the end times were coming (I believe this was a fairly common belief).

2. He was a huge proponent of evangelism and was one of the first people (if not the first) to use the printing press to make copies of the Koran for evangelical purposes.

3. He spent years trying to convert the Jews. He simply couldn't understand how they couldn't come to realization who Jesus was.


With that being said, here's the LCMS proclamation:

Quote:

While The Lutheran ChurchMissouri Synod holds Martin Luther in high esteem for his bold proclamation and clear articulation of the teachings of Scripture, it deeply regrets, deplores, and repudiates statements made by Luther which express a negative and hostile attitude toward the Jews.
Luther did make many positive and caring statements concerning the Jews throughout his lifetime. Nevertheless, Luther was also guilty of statements about the Jews that are full of animosity and contrary to the Word of God (Rom. 9:1-5; 10:12).

The LCMS does not seek to "excuse" these statements of Luther, but denounces them (without denouncing Luther's theology).

In 1983, the Synod adopted an official resolution addressing these statements of Luther and making clear its own position on anti-Semitism. The text of this resolution reads as follows:

WHEREAS, Anti-Semitism and other forms of racism are a continuing problem in our world; and

WHEREAS, Some of Luther's intemperate remarks about the Jews are often cited in this connection; and

WHEREAS, It is widely but falsely assumed that Luther's personal writings and opinions have some official status among us (thus, sometimes implying the responsibility of contemporary Lutheranism for those statements, if not complicity in them); but also

WHEREAS, It is plain from Scripture that the Gospel must be proclaimed to all people that is, to Jews also, no more and no less than to others (Matt. 28:18-20); and

WHEREAS, This Scriptural mandate is sometimes confused with anti-Semitism; therefore be it

Resolved, That we condemn any and all discrimination against others on account of race or religion or any coercion on that account and pledge ourselves to work and witness against such sins; and be it further

Resolved, That we reaffirm that the bases of our doctrine and practice are the Scriptures and the Lutheran Confessions and not Luther, as such; and be it further

Resolved, That while, on the one hand, we are deeply indebted to Luther for his rediscovery and enunciation of the Gospel, on the other hand, we deplore and disassociate ourselves from Luther's negative statements about the Jewish people, and, by the same token, we deplore the use today of such sentiments by Luther to incite anti-Christian and/or anti-Lutheran sentiment; and be it further

Resolved, That in our teaching and preaching we take care not to confuse the religion of the Old Testament (often labeled "Yahwism") with the subsequent Judaism, nor misleadingly speak about "Jews" in the Old Testament ("Israelites" or "Hebrews" being much more accurate terms), lest we obscure the basic claim of the New Testament and of the Gospel to being in substantial continuity with the Old Testament and that the fulfillment of the ancient promises came in Jesus Christ; and be it further

Resolved, That we avoid the recurring pitfall of recrimination (as illustrated by the remarks of Luther and many of the early church fathers) against those who do not respond positively to our evangelistic efforts; and be it finally

Resolved, That, in that light, we personally and individually adopt Luther's final attitude toward the Jewish people, as evidenced in his last sermon: "We want to treat them with Christian love and to pray for them, so that they might become converted and would receive the Lord" (Weimar edition, Vol. 51, p. 195).
Aggie4Life02
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AG
Martin Luther's hatred for Jews, like virtually everyone's in Europe at the time, was religiously motivated. Hitler's was racially motivated.

In other words, If a Hebrew converted to Christianity, Martin Luther would have no problem with that person. Hitler would have still gassed Jews regardless of their faith.
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Zobel
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AG
Nah. They told him to stay in his lane and write about science and not religion. He was bffs with the pope and got too big for his britches. He put the popes (well reasoned) objections about his theories in the mouths of a character called simplicio. The pope was pissed. Galileo's was his own worst enemy.
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