The Benefits of Temperance (re: Alcohol)

7,631 Views | 59 Replies | Last: 5 yr ago by SoulSlaveAG2005
UTExan
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The conventional wisdom is that Prohibition was a failure. In that it corrupted hundreds if not thousands of officials to take bribes and look the other way, it exposed a systemic failure of basic morality. It also robbed government of tax revenues from alcohol sales.

But we overlook the health benefits:

Quote:

The lesson drawn by commentators is that it is fruitless to allow moralists to use criminal law to control intoxicating substances. Many now say it is equally unwise to rely on the law to solve the nation's drug problem.

But the conventional view of Prohibition is not supported by the facts.

First, the regime created in 1919 by the 18th Amendment and the Volstead Act, which charged the Treasury Department with enforcement of the new restrictions, was far from all-embracing. The amendment prohibited the commercial manufacture and distribution of alcoholic beverages; it did not prohibit use, nor production for one's own consumption. Moreover, the provisions did not take effect until a year after passage -plenty of time for people to stockpile supplies.

Second, alcohol consumption declined dramatically during Prohibition. Cirrhosis death rates for men were 29.5 per 100,000 in 1911 and 10.7 in 1929. Admissions to state mental hospitals for alcoholic psychosis declined from 10.1 per 100,000 in 1919 to 4.7 in 1928.
and there is this:

Quote:

Arrests for public drunkennness and disorderly conduct declined 50 percent between 1916 and 1922. For the population as a whole, the best estimates are that consumption of alcohol declined by 30 percent to 50 percent.

Third, violent crime did not increase dramatically during Prohibition. Homicide rates rose dramatically from 1900 to 1910 but remained roughly constant during Prohibition's 14 year rule. Organized crime may have become more visible and lurid during Prohibition, but it existed before and after.

Fourth, following the repeal of Prohibition, alcohol consumption increased. Today, alcohol is estimated to be the cause of more than 23,000 motor vehicle deaths and is implicated in more than half of the nation's 20,000 homicides. (1989 article-my comment)
https://www.nytimes.com/1989/10/16/opinion/actually-prohibition-was-a-success.html


Now I am not a prohibitionist, but a wineglass filled with tart cherry juice or (non-alcoholic) apple cider or even buttermilk certainly passes muster as an evening drink rather than paying for an alcoholic beverage!
schmendeler
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AG
Where do you get free buttermilk, cherry juice, or cider?
UTExan
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schmendeler said:

Where do you get free buttermilk, cherry juice, or cider?
cost comparison---it isn't that difficult. My $ 3.59 bottle of tart cherry juice from Krogers or my $ 1.59 carton of buttermilk is much cheaper. If I need alcohol as a solvent it is much cheaper to buy as Everclear.
Serotonin
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AG
This is one historical topic where expert and public opinion seem to diverge. Prohibition was pretty successful at shutting down saloon culture and making men more responsible. Rates of violence and death went down apparently. And alcohol consumption rates have never risen to pre-prohibition rates.

But the popular conception is that it was a failure. Apparently it was one of the main issues in 1928 and the prohibition side won. Without the Great Depression who knows what would've happened.

Even today most people do not drink much in this country. The heavy lifting is done by the top 10%:
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2014/09/25/think-you-drink-a-lot-this-chart-will-tell-you/?noredirect=on&utm_term=.678efe520878
dermdoc
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AG
Obesity and gluttony are much bigger health risks imho.
No material on this site is intended to be a substitute for professional medical advice, diagnosis or treatment. See full Medical Disclaimer.
dermdoc
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AG
And that chart made me feel a lot better about myself.
No material on this site is intended to be a substitute for professional medical advice, diagnosis or treatment. See full Medical Disclaimer.
UTExan
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dermdoc said:

Obesity and gluttony are much bigger health risks imho.
Agreed. Sugar is called "Mormon Crack" where I live.
Serotonin
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AG
dermdoc said:

And that chart made me feel a lot better about myself.

Ha! Yeah there are some heavy drinkers out there.
kurt vonnegut
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AG
dermdoc said:

And that chart made me feel a lot better about myself.


Not me. I'd say I'm good for 6-10 drinks a week. Pushing 20 in the summer when the pool is open for business.
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Aggie4Life02
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AG
The problem is drunkenness, not drinking.
Win At Life
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AG
Why doesn't the DEA just list alcohol as a schedule one drug like K2 or any other substance of the day and be done with it?
kurt vonnegut
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AG
Aggie4Life02 said:

The problem is drunkenness, not drinking.


It's only a problem if your an ******* drunk.
Zobel
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AG
I saw an interesting posit once that prohibition was society trying to deal with the results of PTSD after the civil war without knowing what PTSD was.
UTExan
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k2aggie07 said:

I saw an interesting posit once that prohibition was society trying to deal with the results of PTSD after the civil war without knowing what PTSD was.

Well, the aforementioned saloon culture and the alcohol-fueled beatings of wives and children was likely a factor as well. During the Methodist revivals in England it was said that many taverns in the port of Bristol were forced to close due to lack of patronage.
PacifistAg
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AG
Is it better to never consume alcohol? Sure. Is it wrong to consume alcohol? No. Is it wrong to use an inherently violent state to stop your neighbor from consuming alcohol? Absolutely.
Frok
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AG
My brother-in-law ruined his life because of his drinking. Lost his wife and his career. Last year he lost his life. I've seen my father-in-law sober up and it is astonishing the difference. He is a completely different person in a very good way.

Thus my consumption is dropping. Really wondering if I should just quit for good.

(But I do agree it is not a sin to drink. I'm also against prohibition because the government sucks)
dermdoc
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AG
Blue star for your last sentence.
No material on this site is intended to be a substitute for professional medical advice, diagnosis or treatment. See full Medical Disclaimer.
chimpanzee
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What goes better together than Rum and Romanism?
GiggityAg01
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AG
Aggie4Life02 said:

The problem is drunkenness, not drinking.
Exactly. I don't care what people do in their homes but as I've gotten older and seen what sponges my kids are I'm tired of seeing all the alcohol in public. I could get behind a zero tolerance policy for any level of intoxication in public and making any place that serves alcohol 21-and-up only with no boozing visible from outside.
Zobel
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AG
What? Why? Of all the things to pearl clutch about, this seems really low on the list.
PacifistAg
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AG
Why not just use it as a teaching opportunity? I mean, I don't really get why a wine bar needs to be blacked out, unless the owners want to do so of their own free will. Heck, I think using government coercion to violate the rights of business owners to be far more offensive than my son seeing someone sip a glass of wine. But that's just me.
NonReg85
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AG
That chart makes me feel bad. At 10-14 drinks a week I'm in the 8th or 9th decile. I don't drink every night but I do drink most nights...usually 1 or 2.
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Zobel
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Oh. Is it? If so, well played.
Beer Baron
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GiggityAg01 said:

Aggie4Life02 said:

The problem is drunkenness, not drinking.
Exactly. I don't care what people do in their homes but as I've gotten older and seen what sponges my kids are I'm tired of seeing all the alcohol in public. I could get behind a zero tolerance policy for any level of intoxication in public and making any place that serves alcohol 21-and-up only with no boozing visible from outside.
Mee Maw? Who taught you how to Texags?
ETFan
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Gator03 said:

This is one historical topic where expert and public opinion seem to diverge. Prohibition was pretty successful at shutting down saloon culture and making men more responsible. Rates of violence and death went down apparently. And alcohol consumption rates have never risen to pre-prohibition rates.

But the popular conception is that it was a failure. Apparently it was one of the main issues in 1928 and the prohibition side won. Without the Great Depression who knows what would've happened.

Even today most people do not drink much in this country. The heavy lifting is done by the top 10%:
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2014/09/25/think-you-drink-a-lot-this-chart-will-tell-you/?noredirect=on&utm_term=.678efe520878
Unbelievably out of touch.
kurt vonnegut
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AG
Is this the right thread to post what we're drinking his weekend?
chimpanzee
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Never really registered any benefits to drinking personally. It honestly never did anything for me. I used to have a beer in my hand to walk around with at the odd party or function that I ended up at, and I periodically would have a beer with a meal if the taste seemed to go together well (typically salty foods, like pizza or Tex-Mex), but now I don't even bother with that, don't need the calories.

diehard03
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Quote:

I periodically would have a beer with a meal if the taste seemed to go together well (typically salty foods, like pizza or Tex-Mex), but now I don't even bother with that, don't need the calories.

Those foods seem lost without their alcoholic counterparts, and the logic on the calories is lost on me.
UTExan
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kurt vonnegut said:

Is this the right thread to post what we're drinking his weekend?

Well, er, okay..

SoulSlaveAG2005
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AG
kurt vonnegut said:

Is this the right thread to post what we're drinking his weekend?



Old pic, but finished this bottle off tonight while cooking chicken tacos... on to beer

747Ag
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PacifistAg
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PacifistAg
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