Where is God in tragedy? (A God story)

1,655 Views | 24 Replies | Last: 5 yr ago by ramblin_ag02
Fightin TX Aggie
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Where is God in tragedy?

Quote:

And we know that in all things God works for the good of those who love him, who have been called according to his purpose.
Romans 8:28 (NIV)
"All things."

Two small words that at different times, Christians either hang on to with all their will or struggle mightily with in times of tragedy. Paul writes that in all things, God is working for good. In tsunamis, in the long, slow death of Alzheimer's dementia, in mass shootings, God is somehow working for good.

Sometimes, we cling to this hope. Other times, we rebel against it. Seldom, however, do we understand how the pieces fit together. It's easy to see good in some things, even hard things. Someone who experiences bullying as a child, for example, may develop a passion for justice that directs his or her entire life and brings "good" to thousands. But how does God possibly work for our "good" in the death of a child?

Sometimes, we will never know (in this life), but sometimes, we get a glimpse of God's incredible sovereignty, and when we do, it's worth talking about.

Last month, horror struck a Texas family. One of my daughter's friends, Hope (not her real name), died. Hope was 18 years old and a freshman in college, and her passing was sudden, unexpected and tragic.
In the midst of this sad story, however, a God story emerged.

Hope had immediately immersed herself in the church and in her college community. Hope was a quiet young woman, but her heart beat to love God and love her neighbors. She made an immediate impact in her college town.

The news of Hope's death hit her pastor pretty hard. In the days following her passing, he spoke with another pastor in town. "You might never know," he told the other pastor, "whether the sermon you're giving may be the last sermon someone ever hears. It challenges me to never forget to share the gospel on any Sunday."

Hope's pastor's words bounced around in the other pastor's heart for the rest of that week and even as he took to the stage to preach to his church the following Sunday. His heart was heavy for a young woman he never knew personally but also for every person who walked into his church that day.

As he preached, the pastor's eyes gazed intently at the congregants. He searched over them, wondering even as he spoke about the precious souls seated before him. And as he searched, his eyes were drawn to two young ladies, seated together in the back, quietly weeping.

On any other Sunday, he might not have noticed them, but on this Sunday, he could not help but be engrossed by them.

After he closed his sermon in prayer, the pastor discreetly approached the two young women, both still holding back tears.

When he spoke with them, the pastor learned that the girls were mourning the loss of a fellow student, a freshman who has befriended them and, in a very short time, impacted them. Their friend's name was, of course, Hope.

One of the girls had been raised in the church when she was young, but she had been uninvolved (and seemingly uninterested) for years. The other young girl was Muslim, and to my knowledge, she had never stepped foot inside a church before.

They decided to attend a church in honor of their friend Hope, who clearly loved the one she called Jesus so much that it caused her to share His love with others. And as they sobbed in the back row, God had made it so that the pastor He caused to notice them also knew Hope's story and could speak directly into their hearts. He had never met Hope, but he knew Hope.

And there, in the back row of the church sanctuary, as college students and families left for brunches, Sunday chores, kids sports or just a relaxing afternoon, both young women the long lost daughter and the Muslim girl made the decision to accept Jesus Christ as their Lord and Savior.

This story made it back to Hope's mother and even in her unspeakable loss, filled her with great joy. In Hope's passing to an eternity without tears, God had found a way to draw two more of His beloved children, his handiwork, back to Him.

In all things.

Somehow, every time.


diehard03
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Quote:

But how does God possibly work for our "good" in the death of a child?

Sometimes, we will never know (in this life), but sometimes, we get a glimpse of God's incredible sovereignty, and when we do, it's worth talking about.

I get why a parent would be angry at God for the passing of a child. God could have saved those kids without allowing for the death of a child.

While I love stories of people being saved, I think we make a mistake connecting it to tragedy or making claims that "God found a way to draw people to him tragedy".

I think Romans 8:28 is better for us to understand that if we are in the love of the Father, then nothing can be "bad". Yes, you'll have tragedies and triumphs...but, as the song says, "better 1 day in your courts, than thousands elsewhere". It's not really speaking to God saving us from circumstance.

Martin Q. Blank
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Even with evil intent, God works for the good of those who love him.

Gen. 50:20 As for you, you meant evil against me, but God meant it for good, to bring it about that many people should be kept alive, as they are today.
ramblin_ag02
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I don't see a big conflict between those two perspectives. To me, the most comforting thing is that God has a plan and everything happens to support His higher purpose. Even when we commit evil, God turns it to his purposes.

Maybe I'm just weak, but I could never be an atheist for this reason. I just couldn't face the mass of human suffering and tragedy if I truly believed it was all for nothing.
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tehmackdaddy
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Amen!
Texaggie7nine
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So the Muslim girl was saved from eternal torture? Is that what we are taking from this?
7nine
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Keep in mind, this is a true story. My daughter was friends with "Hope," and my wife has been in a women's prayer group with Hope's mom for years.

Hope's mom is an active Christ follower. She of course desperately misses her daughter, but she also has confidence her daughter is in paradise, living in the light of God.

She doesn't know why God allowed Hope to be taken so suddenly, but she absolutely felt great joy at knowing two "lost lambs" found their way to the Savior.
FightinTexasAggie08
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I'm glad you posted this, I am having a tough time myself watching my father slowly succumb to cancer at a fairly young age (mid 50's).

It is causing my family and I a lot of anguish as we had planned having my father around for another 25-30 years.

I don't know how people handle the death of a child or a spouse at an even younger age. I guess you just don't die, and you wake up, and you go to sleep, and you eventually stop feeling the pain so acutely.

I still have my faith, I still trust that in the end the Lord will wipe away every tear; and I know that my father, who is one of the best men who has ever lived will go to his eternal reward; but I sure hope I understand God's plan soon because right now it's no fun.
Texaggie7nine
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Sorry to hear.
7nine
FightinTexasAggie08
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Texaggie7nine said:

Sorry to hear.
thank you
Fightin TX Aggie
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Very sorry to hear this, and I pray that you will receive peace and strength in this time. I lost my mom to Alzheimer's in 2017.
unimboti nkum
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My takeaway is that an omnipotent being's best plan to gain converts is to allow someone to be killed.

Even I could do better than that.
Serotonin
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unimboti nkum said:

My takeaway is that an omnipotent being's best plan to gain converts is to allow someone to be killed.

Even I could do better than that.

We are all going to die.

Much better to live a short life like this young woman, who had faith and humility, and influence people in a positive manner, than to go through a long life bitter and angry at God and neighbor, filled with disgust for everything.
Fightin TX Aggie
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unimboti nkum said:

My takeaway is that an omnipotent being's best plan to gain converts is to allow someone to be killed.

Even I could do better than that.
This take misunderstands my view of God's sovereignty.

I don't think God causes evil. I think he permits it.

But God will still turn evil things to his purpose.

It's a complicated issue, more than I have the capacity to write this morning, and likely more than you would want to read.
fwheightsboy
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Idiotic interpretations of the desires and actions of a invisible guy in the sky, where your point of view is no more valid, nor based on facts, than the next persons.
My wife died a slow and painful death at the age of 36, leaving two daughters, 5 and 2, without a mother. All these years later I still cannot see any good from that. My wife was happy to be here with her children. Have you ever had to tell a child that her mother was not coming home, ever? She did not want to go to a "better place." This was the better place for her.
FightinTexasAggie08
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fwheightsboy said:

Idiotic interpretations of the desires and actions of a invisible guy in the sky, where your point of view is no more valid, nor based on facts, than the next persons.
My wife died a slow and painful death at the age of 36, leaving two daughters, 5 and 2, without a mother. All these years later I still cannot see any good from that. My wife was happy to be here with her children. Have you ever had to tell a child that her mother was not coming home, ever? She did not want to go to a "better place." This was the better place for her.



That sounds terrible, as I mentioned above I'm dealing with the impending passing of my father and that isn't 1/10th as tragic as what happened to your wife.

I will say though that there is some comfort in the understanding that there may be a deity who will make something that was bad into a good, than thinking that it was all just some capricious dice roll that went wrong.

Fightin TX Aggie
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I am very sorry for your loss.

Macarthur
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Gator03 said:

unimboti nkum said:

My takeaway is that an omnipotent being's best plan to gain converts is to allow someone to be killed.

Even I could do better than that.

We are all going to die.

Much better to live a short life like this young woman, who had faith and humility, and influence people in a positive manner, than to go through a long life bitter and angry at God and neighbor, filled with disgust for everything.
This really isn't a good answer to that response.
diehard03
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Quote:

I don't think God causes evil. I think he permits it.

But God will still turn evil things to his purpose.

How did evil come into being if God didn't create it?
diehard03
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Quote:

Idiotic interpretations of the desires and actions of a invisible guy in the sky, where your point of view is no more valid, nor based on facts, than the next persons.

My wife died a slow and painful death at the age of 36, leaving two daughters, 5 and 2, without a mother. All these years later I still cannot see any good from that. My wife was happy to be here with her children. Have you ever had to tell a child that her mother was not coming home, ever? She did not want to go to a "better place." This was the better place for her.

I'm sorry for your loss.
Fightin TX Aggie
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diehard03 said:

Quote:

I don't think God causes evil. I think he permits it.

But God will still turn evil things to his purpose.

How did evil come into being if God didn't create it?
Evil is in some ways the absence of God. Sort of like darkness is the absence of light.

God created beings with the free will to either choose Him or reject Him. He wanted real relationships with us. He didn't want little automatons.
diehard03
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Quote:

Evil is in some ways the absence of God. Sort of like darkness is the absence of light.

God created beings with the free will to either choose Him or reject Him. He wanted real relationships with us. He didn't want little automatons.

I will leave the free will portion to the other thread.

As for the first part,... if what we ascribe to God is true, then creating and removing one's self has no difference.
Macarthur
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Fightin TX Aggie said:

diehard03 said:

Quote:

I don't think God causes evil. I think he permits it.

But God will still turn evil things to his purpose.

How did evil come into being if God didn't create it?
Evil is in some ways the absence of God. Sort of like darkness is the absence of light.

God created beings with the free will to either choose Him or reject Him. He wanted real relationships with us. He didn't want little automatons.
I'm not sure I buy this. If Evil causes actual pain and suffering, that very diff than the absence of light. Darkness doesn't 'hurt'.
ramblin_ag02
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You have to be careful what you mean when you say evil. Evil can either mean sin, or it can mean misfortune. God doesn't create sin. However, God is the author of misfortune and disaster, whether directly or generally as the cause of all natural processes. This second meaning is the idea behind Isaiah 45:7.
No material on this site is intended to be a substitute for professional medical advice, diagnosis or treatment. See full Medical Disclaimer.
Macarthur
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ramblin_ag02 said:

You have to be careful what you mean when you say evil. Evil can either mean sin, or it can mean misfortune. God doesn't create sin. However, God is the author of misfortune and disaster, whether directly or generally as the cause of all natural processes. This second meaning is the idea behind Isaiah 45:7.
Completely agree!


Let's use a definition of what most of us comsider the epitome of evil - hitler.

I think we all would agree that hitler was evil and cause unconscionable pain and suffering. That is a far cry from the absence of light.

I get that we are trying to deal more in the abstract, but you can't ignore this point when many Christians believe the Bible says hell is an actual physical place of actual physical torment for eternity.
ramblin_ag02
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Fair point. It doesn't really make any sense to say God isn't the author of evil (Hilter type intentional suffering) and then turn around and warn people that He's going to send them to Hell
No material on this site is intended to be a substitute for professional medical advice, diagnosis or treatment. See full Medical Disclaimer.
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