AstroAg17 said:

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AGC said:

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The book is a good read. Expect this to go the way of seamaster threads because there is no honest engagement with his points here (lately it's been 'we've had enough threads in the past you should have made those points there', though I did with the same results).

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This is false. People have engaged and also pointed out that the guy's a bad poster. They aren't exclusive. On some of the many identical stupid threads there is no discussion, but on some of the other other identical stupid threads started at the same time their is.

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Expect this to go the way of seamaster threads because there is no honest engagement with his points her

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diehard03 said:

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Expect this to go the way of seamaster threads because there is no honest engagement with his points her

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I'd argue that the way you're going about it is probably not the best. First, there's a great many posters here who agree with the very points you are trying to prove so you don't have a large sample to pull from...and second, the few who do not are not motivated by your methods of actually engaging in the topic. They would argue that you have no honest engagement either.

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kurt vonnegut said:

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AGC said:

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diehard03 said:

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Quote:

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Expect this to go the way of seamaster threads because there is no honest engagement with his points her

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I'd argue that the way you're going about it is probably not the best. First, there's a great many posters here who agree with the very points you are trying to prove so you don't have a large sample to pull from...and second, the few who do not are not motivated by your methods of actually engaging in the topic. They would argue that you have no honest engagement either.

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My methods? Something to prove? The threads normally go like this:

Seamaster: this is like gender dysphoria.
Others: no we have brain scans.
Me: yes but you also have selection bias and issues with neuroplasticity which undermines it almost entirely.
Then the thread dies.

I have honestly engaged. If you reread my posts I've discussed many things from this very book, including citing studies and authors (when asked by Watson).

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So, here's my take on this thread . . .

I'm not a neuroscientist. As far as I know, Neither are you / Seamaster. I'm not a psychiatrist and I haven't spend a career studying gender dysphoria. Neither are you / Seamaster. Congratulations on finding a potentially qualified professional who corroborates the opinion you were going to have regardless. If I find a qualified professional who disputes your professional's claims and argues that neuroplasticity in the manner you've used it is not accurate, does that constitute honest engagement? Do I just need to put my appeal to authority up against yours?

Look, I don't know what causes gender dysphoria. I don't know what it feels like to have gender dysphoria. I don't know how to correctly classify it. I don't know if it's 'fixable' or if it even needs to be / should be 'fixed'. I don't even know if I'm using the 'right' terminology. Unlike some of the posters here, I dont spend my time obsessively researching and grinding my gears over 'sexual perversion'. I believe that it's not my job to tell people how they are 'supposed' to be.

Legal implications are on thing. If you want to talk about bathroom bills and trans boys wrestling on the girls teams and all that, you'll find some sympathy from me. If you want to discredit the concept of transgenderism or call it a disease that we need to send kids to camps to so that they can be 'fixed' or otherwise get on your high horse about he immorality of the lifestyle. . . I got nothing for you.

I don't know if neuroplasticity undermines gender dysphoria. You've posted someone who thinks it does. A quick google search shows lots of people with PhD after their name who disagree. It seems clear that there is a lot to learn about the brain. So here's my honest engagement - I am not qualified to make definitive statements on the biology and psychology of gender dysphoria. Are you?

I'm happy to read everyone arguments and conclude that I still don't know the answers. I'm pretty sure no one here knows the answers. One thing I do know is that we should treat people with a bit more dignity and respect . . . Even if they are one of those sexual perverts doing stuff that is none of your business anyway.

I know one trans person. He is a programmer, married, likes to cook, and is a decent person. He was also born a she and I don't see why it's any of my *********business.

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kurt vonnegut said:

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Whether or not we permit people to have autonomy over their own body is not a matter of science.

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AGC said:

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kurt vonnegut said:

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Whether or not we permit people to have autonomy over their own body is not a matter of science.

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Considering no person has autonomy over their body and science effectively proves that, I'd say it is. Every cell has a sex which is immutable, despite their deepest desires. It's a matter of societal health that we let the sick man dictate their treatment instead of the doctor. To seek to treat symptoms instead of a disorder or disease does not benefit anyone and promoting it as healthy or autonomy is immoral, unless you think desire and desire alone is the highest good (though you may believe that and it leaves us at an impasse).

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