Christ died for us!
Praise God for his mercy and grace.
Praise God for his mercy and grace.
While we were yet sinners....
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Last: 5 yr ago by kurt vonnegut
Amen
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The greatest demonstration of God's love.
This is probably one of the most powerful verses as it puts obedience and salvation in their proper order...as in it confirms that "God went first".
The reason I posted this was because of Kav's confirmation.
I don't believe Kav did the things accused of by the females, but I do believe that Kav was a drinker and partier during HS and college. I recalled my own experience during HS and at A&M. Binge drinking, partying, gambling, sex, living for the flesh... I had absolutely no regard for God or anything spiritual. It was all about my belly, so to speak.
It really hit me that God did not condemn me; instead he was merciful and patiently waited for me to come around despite my sinning. I could have died in my sins, but by God's grace I'm saved. I had not thought back to that time in my life in a long time.
I don't believe Kav did the things accused of by the females, but I do believe that Kav was a drinker and partier during HS and college. I recalled my own experience during HS and at A&M. Binge drinking, partying, gambling, sex, living for the flesh... I had absolutely no regard for God or anything spiritual. It was all about my belly, so to speak.
It really hit me that God did not condemn me; instead he was merciful and patiently waited for me to come around despite my sinning. I could have died in my sins, but by God's grace I'm saved. I had not thought back to that time in my life in a long time.
Such strange knots we twist ourselves into to avoid simply saying "I care more about making the court conservative than anything else".
You have no idea whether he did those things or not, and you have no evidence that he clearly did not do them. it's also a strange analogy to equate letting a possible rapist on the highest court of the land to the fallen nature of all of us.
Just accept your cultural Christianity and move on.
You have no idea whether he did those things or not, and you have no evidence that he clearly did not do them. it's also a strange analogy to equate letting a possible rapist on the highest court of the land to the fallen nature of all of us.
Just accept your cultural Christianity and move on.
Quote:
it's also a strange analogy to equate letting a possible rapist on the highest court of the land to the fallen nature of all of us.
I find it stranger yet that a Holy, sinless, God, would have Rahab the Harlot be in the lineage of Messiah, that He would use a murdering Moses to lead people out of Egypt, that He would forgive David for murder and adultery, that He would take the largest objector to Jesus in the 1st century and use Him to write approximately 1/2 of the New Testament, that He would use a disobedient person like Jonah, that He would rather die for my sins than punish me.
I must say I didn't see the Kavanaugh angle coming.... but I guess I should have expected something political to follow the OP
Quote:
I find it stranger yet that a Holy, sinless, God, would have Rahab the Harlot be in the lineage of Messiah, that He would use a murdering Moses to lead people out of Egypt, that He would forgive David for murder and adultery, that He would take the largest objector to Jesus in the 1st century and use Him to write approximately 1/2 of the New Testament, that He would use a disobedient person like Jonah, that He would rather die for my sins than punish me
While all true, you wouldn't recommend being a Harlot, murdering people, committing adultery or persecuting and asking for permission to kill followers of a certain "cult", nor would you accept these things as long as your own goals/wants were met.
diehard03 said:
Such strange knots we twist ourselves into to avoid simply saying "I care more about making the court conservative than anything else".
You have no idea whether he did those things or not, and you have no evidence that he clearly did not do them. it's also a strange analogy to equate letting a possible rapist on the highest court of the land to the fallen nature of all of us.
Just accept your cultural Christianity and move on.
You completely missed the point.
I'll pray for you though.
Quote:
You completely missed the point.
I'll pray for you though.
No no. I got the point. If you were just making some loose connection, then there would be no reason to mention how innocent you thought he was, but you just couldn't help yourself.
Your theoretical point was made completely without ever bringing it up his innocence, or not even mentioning Kavanaugh. You could just told the story of how you partied your way through A&M.
Exactly. If the point were simply the wonder God's grace and mercy, then the OP was enough. Absolutely no need to tie it to man's politics, especially when those of his tribe certainly have rejected that kind of grace for his accuser.diehard03 said:Quote:
You completely missed the point.
I'll pray for you though.
No no. I got the point. If you were just making some loose connection, then there would be no reason to mention how innocent you thought he was, but you just couldn't help yourself.
Your theoretical point was made completely without ever bringing it up his innocence, or not even mentioning Kavanaugh. You could just told the story of how you partied your way through A&M.
But, at least you got a passive aggressive prayer out of it.
Quote:
especially when those of his tribe certainly have rejected that kind of grace for his accuser.
I mean, can you blame him? they are just "the females".
Also, why stop at passive aggressive? Maybe i can get an aggressive aggressive prayer out of it.
diehard03 said:Quote:
You completely missed the point.
I'll pray for you though.
No no. I got the point. If you were just making some loose connection, then there would be no reason to mention how innocent you thought he was, but you just couldn't help yourself.
Your theoretical point was made completely without ever bringing it up his innocence, or not even mentioning Kavanaugh. You could just told the story of how you partied your way through A&M.
The reason I brought up Kav was because that's what initiated my reflection in the first place. I didn't just think about that scripture and decide to post it on the board. My editorial about the accusation was not intended for any purpose other than as a juxtaposition against the fact that I do believe he was a drinker and partier during his youth, same as me.
You seem very angry. Not sure why. If you hate Kav and believe he's guilty, that's you're prerogative and is between you and the Lord.
God bless.
Pretty low bar for "possible" rapist. Ford never accused him of such.
garc said:
The reason I posted this was because of Kav's confirmation.
I don't believe Kav did the things accused of by the females, but I do believe that Kav was a drinker and partier during HS and college. I recalled my own experience during HS and at A&M. Binge drinking, partying, gambling, sex, living for the flesh... I had absolutely no regard for God or anything spiritual. It was all about my belly, so to speak.
It really hit me that God did not condemn me; instead he was merciful and patiently waited for me to come around despite my sinning. I could have died in my sins, but by God's grace I'm saved. I had not thought back to that time in my life in a long time.
You do realize that if you think he was a drinker and partier, then you must think he lied under oath before the Senate.
Dr. Watson said:garc said:
The reason I posted this was because of Kav's confirmation.
I don't believe Kav did the things accused of by the females, but I do believe that Kav was a drinker and partier during HS and college. I recalled my own experience during HS and at A&M. Binge drinking, partying, gambling, sex, living for the flesh... I had absolutely no regard for God or anything spiritual. It was all about my belly, so to speak.
It really hit me that God did not condemn me; instead he was merciful and patiently waited for me to come around despite my sinning. I could have died in my sins, but by God's grace I'm saved. I had not thought back to that time in my life in a long time.
You do realize that if you think he was a drinker and partier, then you must think he lied under oath before the Senate.
Actually, no.
God bless.
If you want to discuss politics, you know how to click the link.
Of course not.
Quote:
Pretty low bar for "possible" rapist. Ford never accused him of such.
You can have that political debate if you want, but that wasn't the point of my comment.
Quote:
My editorial about the accusation was not intended for any purpose other than as a juxtaposition against the fact that I do believe he was a drinker and partier during his youth, same as me.
You seem very angry. Not sure why. If you hate Kav and believe he's guilty, that's you're prerogative and is between you and the Lord.
But you know that's not true. You would have just left it at your A&M party days. You just needed tell people that you think he's innocent for whatever reason. Maybe you just wanted to take another victory lap or something. I don't know.
I don't know that he's guilty - i just think it's foolish to make a positive assertion either way.
I will admit that i do tire of the typical Christian "oh woe is me I was so bad back in the day but saved by grace" mantra that goes around. It's not that it's wrong...it's just that people tend to not talk about it like they actually regret it and seem to lean on the grace so they can have their cake and eat it too. I am not saying you are doing this...you haven't typed that many words. But it reminds me of this attitude....especially when you write off what women did or did not see/experience based on political gain.
I mean... him "writing off what women did or did not see based on political gain" seems to be the entire basis of your argument. It's a pretty big assumption on your part.
diehard03 said:Quote:
My editorial about the accusation was not intended for any purpose other than as a juxtaposition against the fact that I do believe he was a drinker and partier during his youth, same as me.
You seem very angry. Not sure why. If you hate Kav and believe he's guilty, that's you're prerogative and is between you and the Lord.
But you know that's not true. You would have just left it at your A&M party days. You just needed tell people that you think he's innocent for whatever reason. Maybe you just wanted to take another victory lap or something. I don't know.
I don't know that he's guilty - i just think it's foolish to make a positive assertion either way.
I will admit that i do tire of the typical Christian "oh woe is me I was so bad back in the day but saved by grace" mantra that goes around. It's not that it's wrong...it's just that people tend to not talk about it like they actually regret it and seem to lean on the grace so they can have their cake and eat it too. I am not saying you are doing this...you haven't typed that many words. But it reminds me of this attitude....especially when you write off what women did or did not see/experience based on political gain.
I don't appreciate being called a liar. This is my last response to you.
God bless.
Quote:
I mean... him "writing off what women did or did not see based on political gain" seems to be the entire basis of your argument. It's a pretty big assumption on your part.
Seems like a fairly logical inference as to why he might possibly bring up something that had nothing to do with his point to wave some political flag.
Quote:
I don't appreciate being called a liar. This is my last response to you.
God bless.
Ok. Thanks for injecting your political nonsense into an otherwise good OP
To get back to the OP, thank God for His mercy and grace. May we imitate such mercy and grace towards terrorists, undocumented immigrants, political rivals, unbelievers, murderers, rapists, fundamentalists, LGBT persons, and all others.
Please I beg you don't bring "logical inference" into a thread after you've said this:
I can't handle it man, it is too ridiculous.
Quote:
You have no idea whether he did those things or not, and you have no evidence that he clearly did not do them. it's also a strange analogy to equate letting a possible rapist on the highest court of the land to the fallen nature of all of us.
I can't handle it man, it is too ridiculous.
This thread is well and truly derailed so I'm going to expand a bit on the absolute chutzpah on display here.
The tactic being employed takes so much gall I can't believe it works, but here we are.
The idea - shift the burden of proof to the opposite of whatever it is you'd like to prove. Consider your stance to be the null hypothesis, what is granted or assumed as the basis for your point.
Next, raise the standard to prove your null hypothesis false to an absurd level, and every time the standard is met raise the bar ever-higher. Even better, provide new and more outrageous claims which become their own null hypothesis.
For example:
Claim: Kavanaugh sexually assaulted an anonymous person 36(ish) years ago.
Null hypothesis: As a perpetrator of sexual assault and a possible rapist he is unfit for the court.
Immediately we have performed a feat of slight-of-hand, by placing the burden of proof on the defendant! In broad daylight! Answer the charge sir! Where were you on an unspecified night in an unspecified location in an unspecified year?
Oh -- "you have no idea whether he did those things or not, and you have no evidence that he clearly did not do them." This statement is an insult to thinking people everywhere regardless of on which side of the political spectrum you fall.
Prove to me the moon is not made of cheese. "You have no idea whether the moon is made of cheese or not. You have no evidence that it clearly is not made of cheese." The "moon rocks" that the astronauts brought home (perhaps Kavanaugh's calendars) are not exculpatory evidence - in fact, quite the opposite, they affirm the miscarriage ofscientific investigation justice! They obviously didn't investigate thoroughly. Surely if they'd drilled beneath the crust, they would have found that the cheese is below the surface. And if they don't, it's because they didn't drill deep enough. Investigate enough and we will find that Kavanaugh is in fact an alcoholic, a rapist - not only that, but even a gang rapist! And we can't let a possible rapist on the highest court of the land, can we?
Logical inference. My goodness.
The tactic being employed takes so much gall I can't believe it works, but here we are.
The idea - shift the burden of proof to the opposite of whatever it is you'd like to prove. Consider your stance to be the null hypothesis, what is granted or assumed as the basis for your point.
Next, raise the standard to prove your null hypothesis false to an absurd level, and every time the standard is met raise the bar ever-higher. Even better, provide new and more outrageous claims which become their own null hypothesis.
For example:
Claim: Kavanaugh sexually assaulted an anonymous person 36(ish) years ago.
Null hypothesis: As a perpetrator of sexual assault and a possible rapist he is unfit for the court.
Immediately we have performed a feat of slight-of-hand, by placing the burden of proof on the defendant! In broad daylight! Answer the charge sir! Where were you on an unspecified night in an unspecified location in an unspecified year?
Oh -- "you have no idea whether he did those things or not, and you have no evidence that he clearly did not do them." This statement is an insult to thinking people everywhere regardless of on which side of the political spectrum you fall.
Prove to me the moon is not made of cheese. "You have no idea whether the moon is made of cheese or not. You have no evidence that it clearly is not made of cheese." The "moon rocks" that the astronauts brought home (perhaps Kavanaugh's calendars) are not exculpatory evidence - in fact, quite the opposite, they affirm the miscarriage of
Logical inference. My goodness.
1. garc simply said the exposure of Kav's drinking during his nomination brought up memories of his own past and God's grace and mercy.diehard03 said:
Such strange knots we twist ourselves into to avoid simply saying "I care more about making the court conservative than anything else".
You have no idea whether he did those things or not, and you have no evidence that he clearly did not do them. it's also a strange analogy to equate letting a possible rapist on the highest court of the land to the fallen nature of all of us.
Just accept your cultural Christianity and move on.
2. He did not make the analogy you thought he did.
3. What evidence would there be of Kav not doing it? A body cam of his entire life?
Uh, it's most definitely made from Casu Marzu cheese.Quote:
Prove to me the moon is not made of cheese.
I thought it was BBQ spare ribs.
But, to your actual point, I agree. We had this discussion w/ some friends of ours. My personal view is that both the accuser and Kavanaugh could be acting honestly and in good faith. I think something did happen to her, and she probably honestly believes it was Kavanaugh. Kavanaugh, though, could be absolutely certain that he didn't do it. Memories are tricky things like that. Regardless, though, these were things that he's alleged to have done something like 35 years ago as a teenager/young man. I surely hope that our 17 yr old versions do not accurately represent who we are 35 years later. And even if the accusations are true, I don't think it is a disqualifier for the role he was nominated for. I mean, look at the recent/current moral filth Americans have put into the highest office in America on multiple occasions.
Yep. This commentary on the guilty or innocence was extra, however.Quote:
1. garc simply said the exposure of Kav's drinking during his nomination brought up memories of his own past and God's grace and mercy.
Maybe.Quote:
2. He did not make the analogy you thought he did.
Why are you asking me? I'm not the one whos asserting that he didn't do it. I have no idea whether he did or not.Quote:
3. What evidence would there be of Kav not doing it? A body cam of his entire life?
The preestablished burden of evidence required to disqualify you from a job already seems quite low. A DUI arrest, even without a conviction, is enough to disqualify you from many white-collar jobs if it shows up on a background check. I don't think that's a good rule to follow, but it is what it is. I think Ford's allegation in and of itself rises to that level. The question is on what basis do we deviate from the low standard of evidence we've already established for this sort of thing? Or is this somehow a fundamentally different sort of thing from what I've described?
One thing that I think lends some credence to your criticism of the OP injecting a political subject is a post the OP made on the Pol board stating that several of the "deranged" responses here help him understand how people can be so "depraved". It seems like the talk of "grace and mercy" doesn't carry over to other boards.
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