Federalist: Pedophilia Not Main Priesthood Problem--- It is Homosexuality

3,308 Views | 31 Replies | Last: 5 yr ago by FightinTexasAggie08
UTExan
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Interesting take on the problem of clergy sexual abuse within the RCC:

Quote:

The editorial board of the New York Times declared it had identified the source of "The Catholic Church's Unholy Stain." It names pedophilia and asks: "How have so many pedophiles been allowed into the priesthood?"

The question was purely rhetorical because the board had an answer ready. It cited the usual grounds: "the all-male priesthood and the celibacy imposed on Catholic priests; the elitism, careerism and clericalism of the church hierarchy; the lack of transparency or accountability among bishops." Most damning is "the power a man of God has over a child."
The writer then distinguishes between pederasty and pedophilia:

Quote:

With few exceptions, sexual abuse by priests has been visited overwhelmingly upon pubescent boys, and young men, most often teenagers. This is pederasty, not pedophilia. And pederasty is endemic to gay culture. (For an unsparing indictment of that culture by a gay man, read Jason Hill's "Loveless, Narcissistic Sex Addicts" in The Federalist.)
But she goes further with rather scathing language about society's unconditional acceptance of homosexuality:
Quote:

Homosexuality has been normalized, officially approved, ratified, and okayed. Since the American Psychiatric Association removed homosexuality from the roster of mental disorders in 1973, activists have parlayed homosexuals into a protected species, more like black rhinos or orangutans than moral beings. The church's ancient description of homosexuality as an "objective disorder" is dismissed as the last gasp of the 19th-century Society for the Suppression of Vice.
And she debunks the idea that celibacy is the root cause of sexual misconduct:
Quote:

Priestly celibacy is both a free choice and a free gift.
Unchosen celibacy, by contrast, is the condition of many menand womenwho are celibate by happenstance: no opportunity for marriage presented itself; marriage was disallowed by health problems, disability, or disfigurement; a spouse was removed by divorce or death. Many single people live without alternative. Yet no one would be so doltish as to believe unsought singlehood leads to rapacity.
Just so, it is grossly simplistic to present marriage as a cure for sexual predation. Andrew Greeley, both priest and sociologist, was a passionate, outspoken advocate for victims of abusive priests. No naf, Greeley was also a vigorous defender of the celibate life: "Anyone who thinks that marriage or sexual relations solve many male (or female) problems has not paid much attention to the human condition."
https://thefederalist.com/2018/09/28/pedophilia-isnt-main-problem-catholic-priests-homosexuality/




Very interesting article for about 8-10 minutes of your time if you can read it and her perspective is one I haven't really considered in depth.
americathegreat1492
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If there is a higher incidence of homsexuality or pedophilia in the clergy, I would think it's more likely that people who feel unable to express aspects of their sexuality in the open are more attracted to the kind of positions and careers where they can at least present an asexual front. Others' perceptions can be a defense mechanism against having to confront one's own problems. If people believe I am a certain way, then it's easier to convince myself that maybe I am.

What other explanations can you offer?
UTExan
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americathegreat1492 said:

If there is a higher incidence of homsexuality or pedophilia in the clergy, I would think it's more likely that people who feel unable to express aspects of their sexuality in the open are more attracted to the kind of positions and careers where they can at least present an asexual front.
I think you present a very compelling argument there. But how much of their attraction to the ministry is driven by Christian piety as opposed to career security or even a form of status? Someone going into the clergy in a pentecostal denomination such as the Church of God or Assemblies of God has a generally modest expectation of prosperity or job security (unless they land at a megachurch) so it would seem their attraction to ministry based on piety or love of God is very high. But the Roman Catholic Church? I am not certain.

Quote:

Others' perceptions can be a defense mechanism against having to confront one's own problems. If people believe I am a certain way, then it's easier to convince myself that maybe I am.

What other explanations can you offer?
And the church(es) of today does not seem to have cogent plans for dealing with sexual sin (or other sin/misbehavior) from clergy. In the old Methodist societies, people were expelled until they had repented, but were generally freely re-admitted.
It is better to light a flamethrower than to curse the darkness- Sir Terence Pratchett
“ III stooges si viveret et nos omnes ad quos etiam probabile est mittent custard pies”
StorminAg
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AG
I'm sure none of you will watch it. It's only 7 minutes but he lays it out perfectly.

Ag_of_08
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AG
Funny, most studies show that adults who molest the pre-pubescent are more likely to identify as straight in their adult attraction.

But nice deflection.
FightinTexasAggie08
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Ag_of_08 said:

Funny, most studies show that adults who molest the pre-pubescent are more likely to identify as straight in their adult attraction.

But nice deflection.


Wouldn't that be expected though since the number of men who identify as straight vs gay is like 45:1? Is the proportionality the same?

Or is this another "omg whites commit almost as many murders as blacks" arguments that ignores per capita numbers?
Ag_of_08
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AG
I didn't say it was suprising just pointing out that blaming homosexuality for pedophilia is a classical deflection of the problem. They're two distinct things, and the catholic church, and many evangelicals, keep trying to conflate the two.
747Ag
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AG
Ag_of_08 said:

I didn't say it was suprising just pointing out that blaming homosexuality for pedophilia is a classical deflection of the problem. They're two distinct things, and the catholic church, and many evangelicals, keep trying to conflate the two.
The vast majority of cases don't deal with pedophilia.
PacifistAg
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AG
Never mind.
UTExan
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That was the point of the article: there is a difference between pedophilia and pederasty. It is the author's contention that not homosexuality itself, but rather contemporary prevailing morality in the gay community which induces some of these gay priests to commit pederasty.
It is better to light a flamethrower than to curse the darkness- Sir Terence Pratchett
“ III stooges si viveret et nos omnes ad quos etiam probabile est mittent custard pies”
Ag_of_08
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AG
Which is directly inferring that homosexuality and pedophilia are linked, and including that the evil immoral homosexuals are true root of the issue.

I read it....its a semnatical twist on the same old arguments. Instead of taking responsibility for the fact the modern priesthood system causes a great many of the issues, let's blame someone else.

I'm sure they'll shuffle some more money into a cemetary fund, and look for some more victims to blame next.
AGC
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Ag_of_08 said:

Which is directly inferring that homosexuality and pedophilia are linked, and including that the evil immoral homosexuals are true root of the issue.

I read it....its a semnatical twist on the same old arguments. Instead of taking responsibility for the fact the modern priesthood system causes a great many of the issues, let's blame someone else.

I'm sure they'll shuffle some more money into a cemetary fund, and look for some more victims to blame next.


No, it's not. Mccarrick (referenced earlier) preyed on seminarians. I'm not catholic but follow quite a few and this is a bigger problem in the church than you're willing to concede. Stop hiding behind the rainbow flag and read up on the scale and scope of the problem.
Marco Esquandolas
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AG
It's not homosexuality it's the Catholicism.
Ag_of_08
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I have actually. The problem goes far past the problem at hand.... or did the childhood raping by the head of the legionaries of christ, or the Milwaukee diocese scandal.... or...or.... not happen? The bulk of the problem is not seminarians.
UTExan
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Ag_of_08 said:

Which is directly inferring that homosexuality and pedophilia are linked, and including that the evil immoral homosexuals are true root of the issue.

I read it....its a semnatical twist on the same old arguments. Instead of taking responsibility for the fact the modern priesthood system causes a great many of the issues, let's blame someone else.

I'm sure they'll shuffle some more money into a cemetary fund, and look for some more victims to blame next.
If same sex attraction was the issue I doubt she would have cited the critique of contemporary gay behavior by a gay scholar who wants very much to be in a committed relationship. Instead, the critique of the scholar is entirely directed against a promiscuous lifestyle.
It is better to light a flamethrower than to curse the darkness- Sir Terence Pratchett
“ III stooges si viveret et nos omnes ad quos etiam probabile est mittent custard pies”
Kool
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AG
Homosexuality was, and may still be, very prevalent within seminaries. My uncle is a retired Bishop within the Catholic Church. He stated that, when he was a seminarian, he struggled mightily with giving up his chances at marriage and raising a family. His vow of chastity was truly a sacrifice, but his first love was God and he persisted. Meanwhile, many of his fellow seminarians, to his shock, were carrying out homosexual relationships with fellow students within the seminary. Back in the day, there were even some of the seminaries which were known as "pink palaces". I'm not sure if those persist to this day.

Once they become ordained, most priests are sent off to parishes where they are relatively isolated from many of their brethren. It would certainly follow that some of those men, once they became ordained as priests, found entire new populations of young men on which to prey. Obviously, any predation upon young people is horrific and needs to be prevented and prosecuted. But the statistics do point out that the vast majority of offenses were against postpubertal males. It doesn't make it right, it just points to a part of the problem.
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AGC
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Ag_of_08 said:

I have actually. The problem goes far past the problem at hand.... or did the childhood raping by the head of the legionaries of christ, or the Milwaukee diocese scandal.... or...or.... not happen? The bulk of the problem is not seminarians.


So you're saying gays are pedophiles?
Bryanisbest
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The male sexual urge is more powerful than a locomotive. Celibacy blocks this urge. It must break out in illegal ways if legal outlet is not allowed. Children happen to be available and can be coaxed not to talk.
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RAB91
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'Why Men Like Me Should Not Be Priests'
https://www.firstthings.com/web-exclusives/2018/08/why-men-like-me-should-not-be-priests

Ag_of_08
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AG
The bulk of pedophiles, including I the catholic church, have proven to be "straight" adults.
Orko
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Ag_of_08 said:

The bulk of pedophiles, including I the catholic church, have proven to be "straight" adults.


Not this sh-- again! Your statement is about absolutes rather than incidence rates in the general population. The ratio of gay pedophiles to straight pedophiles is much higher than gay males to straight males in the general population. It isn't even close.
Remember, patriot, what they took from you. Your nation's identity, its religion, and its people are no more. Remember how we got here.
Ag_of_08
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Orko said:

Ag_of_08 said:

The bulk of pedophiles, including I the catholic church, have proven to be "straight" adults.


Not this sh-- again! Your statement is about absolutes rather than incidence rates in the general population. The ratio of gay pedophiles to straight pedophiles is much higher than gay males to straight males in the general population. It isn't even close.


Links? Not on a Christian "family" site?
Van Til
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Kind of a weird request.
Ag_of_08
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A request for links to proof? That's 99% of the responses I get on this forum...a demand for links.

Or the request they not come from incredibly biased sources with political agendas?
jkag89
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Ag_of_08 said:

Orko said:

Ag_of_08 said:

The bulk of pedophiles, including I the catholic church, have proven to be "straight" adults.


Not this sh-- again! Your statement is about absolutes rather than incidence rates in the general population. The ratio of gay pedophiles to straight pedophiles is much higher than gay males to straight males in the general population. It isn't even close.


Links? Not on a Christian "family" site?
You did not provide a source either. I accept the first part of your statement, the second is the one in which I question. The bulk of the sexual abuse cases within the Catholic Church were not pedophilia but ephebophilia.
FightinTexasAggie08
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https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/1556756

This test by freund deals with attraction and not action; but is still relevant. Heterosexuals with pedophiliac tendencies outnumber homosexuals with pedophiliac tendencies by 11:1. The prevalence of gay people in the U.S was estimated at anywhere from 1.5-4% in the 90's; meaning that heterosexuals outnumber gays 66:1 or 25:1 showing that gays are anywhere from 2.5x to 6x as likely to be attracted to children as heterosexuals.
NonReg85
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AG
Someone struck a nerve with Ag_of_08.
FightinTexasAggie08
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NonReg85 said:

Someone struck a nerve with Ag_of_08.
Well he's a transexual so that's to be expected.
NonReg85
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AG
Sullys Guy said:

NonReg85 said:

Someone struck a nerve with Ag_of_08.
Well he's a transexual so that's to be expected.
In my experience Ag_of_08 is a pretty good poster who sticks to facts and lays out logical arguments. This time, not so much.
FightinTexasAggie08
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NonReg85 said:

Sullys Guy said:

NonReg85 said:

Someone struck a nerve with Ag_of_08.
Well he's a transexual so that's to be expected.
In my experience Ag_of_08 is a pretty good poster who sticks to facts and lays out logical arguments. This time, not so much.
Well I look forward to experiencing that myself with Ag_of_08
Ag_of_08
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AG
NonReg85 said:

Sullys Guy said:

NonReg85 said:

Someone struck a nerve with Ag_of_08.
Well he's a transexual so that's to be expected.
In my experience Ag_of_08 is a pretty good poster who sticks to facts and lays out logical arguments. This time, not so much.


You and I disagree on things, sometimes vehemently, but stay civil.

Sully's guy is really just trolling by all appearances, I kind of ignore them. Given some of the things I've seen them posting, I think it's for the best as well.
FightinTexasAggie08
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Ag_of_08 said:

NonReg85 said:

Sullys Guy said:

NonReg85 said:

Someone struck a nerve with Ag_of_08.
Well he's a transexual so that's to be expected.
In my experience Ag_of_08 is a pretty good poster who sticks to facts and lays out logical arguments. This time, not so much.


You and I disagree on things, sometimes vehemently, but stay civil.

Sully's guy is really just trolling by all appearances, I kind of ignore them. Given some of the things I've seen them posting, I think it's for the best as well.


Nah, I actually posted a study that refuted one of your talking points, since you were asking for studies. That's not trolling.
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