Boy Erased

5,103 Views | 103 Replies | Last: 5 yr ago by AGC
PacifistAg
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AG
Boy Erased

A movie, based on the true story of a Baptist preacher's son who came out as gay and was sent to conversion therapy, is coming out this fall. Regardless of what one thinks of homosexuality, this looks like an extremely moving presentation of something that many families struggle with, as well as highlighting some of the dangers of conversion therapy.

Apparently it's based on a book. Has anyone read the book?
Martin Q. Blank
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What is conversion therapy? I've heard it referenced, but haven't heard what the practice is. Is it like shock therapy? Wikipedia just says "psychological or spiritual interventions." That could be anything from a lobotomy to listening to a sermon on Rom. 1:26-27 or prayer to help fight sin.
PacifistAg
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AG

Quote:

Wikipedia just says "psychological or spiritual interventions."
No, it says far more than "just...psychological or spiritual interventions".

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conversion_therapy#Theories_and_techniques

I'm sure you can google "studies on effects of conversion therapy" if you want to know more about the harm it inflicts.
Martin Q. Blank
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The first sentence says:

Conversion therapy is the pseudoscientific practice of trying to change an individual's sexual orientation from homosexual or bisexual to heterosexual using psychological or spiritual interventions.
PacifistAg
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AG
Martin Q. Blank said:

The first sentence says:

Conversion therapy is the pseudoscientific practice of trying to change an individual's sexual orientation from homosexual or bisexual to heterosexual using psychological or spiritual interventions.
Yes, but you said it "just says psychological or spiritual interventions". It says far more about it. You'd just have to get past the first sentence. It mentions some of the techniques, but again, you'd have to do more than read the first sentence. There's more information beyond that. If you are actually interested in knowing more about it, you also have several search engines from which to choose.
Martin Q. Blank
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Does conversion therapy only include that under the heading "Theories and techniques"? Or does it also include listening to a sermon on Rom. 1:26-27? What about praying that God help the person fight his sin?

The second sentence in the wikipedia article starts off on the wrong foot. It is antithetical to the gospel of Jesus Christ.
There is virtually no reliable evidence that sexual orientation can be changed and medical bodies warn that conversion therapy practices are ineffective and potentially seriously harmful.

Quote:

They advocated long-term therapy aimed at resolving the unconscious childhood conflicts that they considered responsible for homosexuality.
This is wrong? Now we can't even find and address root causes of them being gay?
dermdoc
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AG
I am very skeptical about conversion therapy of any sort. What is fascinating is that Christ never mentioned homosexuality and Paul's admonition have been very questionably translated. Some scholars think Paul was talking about the practice of having sex with young boys.

And edited to add that I believe Jesus can change anything, just like he can cure anything. I get pretty upset when people imply that the reason Jesus did not heal or change things that it was due to a lack of faith. That is not Christ like imho.
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Martin Q. Blank
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I think "conversion therapy" is very loaded. Like "social justice" or "feminism." It can mean anything from a lobotomy to any attempt to change one's sexual desires. Some people (most of psychology) think the latter is cruel in itself which is antichrist.
Texaggie7nine
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What makes you so sure that they aren't naturally that way? What is your logical reasoning?
7nine
dermdoc
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AG
Just curious have you read the original translations on Paul's exact words?
No material on this site is intended to be a substitute for professional medical advice, diagnosis or treatment. See full Medical Disclaimer.
Solo Tetherball Champ
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Oh look, another gay thread.
PacifistAg
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AG
Solo Tetherball Champ said:

Oh look, another gay thread.
More like "a movie about a pastor and his wife, a gay son, conversion therapy, and how they dealt with it within their family thread".
Beer Baron
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AG
Solo Tetherball Champ said:

Oh look, another gay thread.
I for one welcome a rare gay thread that doesn't begin with "CAN YOU BELIEVE HOW GAYS ARE RUINING EVERYTHING?" for once.
Martin Q. Blank
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Texaggie7nine said:

What makes you so sure that they aren't naturally that way? What is your logical reasoning?
What does it mean to be a "way", "naturally"?
Martin Q. Blank
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dermdoc said:

Just curious have you read the original translations on Paul's exact words?
What is an original translation? KJV? Latin Vulgate?
dermdoc
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AG
Young's literal translation along with Strong's Concordance and maybe even a Greek dictionary would be a starter.
No material on this site is intended to be a substitute for professional medical advice, diagnosis or treatment. See full Medical Disclaimer.
Martin Q. Blank
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dermdoc said:

Young's literal translation along with Strong's Concordance and maybe even a Greek dictionary would be a starter.
Romans 1:26-27 Young's Literal Translation (YLT)
26 Because of this did God give them up to dishonourable affections, for even their females did change the natural use into that against nature;
27 and in like manner also the males having left the natural use of the female, did burn in their longing toward one another; males with males working shame, and the recompense of their error that was fit, in themselves receiving.

Strong's
https://www.blueletterbible.org/kjv/rom/1/26/ss1/s_1047026

Greek lexicon
https://www.biblestudytools.com/lexicons/greek/
Texaggie7nine
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Martin Q. Blank said:

Texaggie7nine said:

What makes you so sure that they aren't naturally that way? What is your logical reasoning?
What does it mean to be a "way", "naturally"?
Meaning their attraction to the same sex was not caused by any environmental factors whatsoever. Of course, it is possible that some could be a result of environmental factors, but what evidence do you use to determine that 100% of gay people are that way because of environmental factors?
7nine
Martin Q. Blank
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Texaggie7nine said:

Martin Q. Blank said:

Texaggie7nine said:

What makes you so sure that they aren't naturally that way? What is your logical reasoning?
What does it mean to be a "way", "naturally"?
Meaning their attraction to the same sex was not caused by any environmental factors whatsoever. Of course, it is possible that some could be a result of environmental factors, but what evidence do you use to determine that 100% of gay people are that way because of environmental factors?
I never said that.
Frok
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AG
Do you believe homosexuality is not a sin?
AGC
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AG
dermdoc said:

I am very skeptical about conversion therapy of any sort. What is fascinating is that Christ never mentioned homosexuality and Paul's admonition have been very questionably translated. Some scholars think Paul was talking about the practice of having sex with young boys.

And edited to add that I believe Jesus can change anything, just like he can cure anything. I get pretty upset when people imply that the reason Jesus did not heal or change things that it was due to a lack of faith. That is not Christ like imho.


Is it really fascinating that Jews never talked about sexuality, given what they had in the Torah (which we know both had memorized and read in the temple)? Jesus certainly addressed marriage by quoting Genesis. Relying on an argument from absence is dangerous when one considers they didn't view themselves as Christians and a separate religions, but simply Jews.
AGC
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Texaggie7nine said:

Martin Q. Blank said:

Texaggie7nine said:

What makes you so sure that they aren't naturally that way? What is your logical reasoning?
What does it mean to be a "way", "naturally"?
Meaning their attraction to the same sex was not caused by any environmental factors whatsoever. Of course, it is possible that some could be a result of environmental factors, but what evidence do you use to determine that 100% of gay people are that way because of environmental factors?


Does it matter? All desires should be second to Christ if one is a Christian, regardless of nature or nurture. The idea of someone having inherently sinful desires isn't challenging to doctrine even if they were born that 'way'.
dermdoc
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AG
Martin Q. Blank said:

dermdoc said:

Young's literal translation along with Strong's Concordance and maybe even a Greek dictionary would be a starter.
Romans 1:26-27 Young's Literal Translation (YLT)
26 Because of this did God give them up to dishonourable affections, for even their females did change the natural use into that against nature;
27 and in like manner also the males having left the natural use of the female, did burn in their longing toward one another; males with males working shame, and the recompense of their error that was fit, in themselves receiving.

Strong's
https://www.blueletterbible.org/kjv/rom/1/26/ss1/s_1047026

Greek lexicon
https://www.biblestudytools.com/lexicons/greek/
Not trying to be argumentative but I believe Strong's has different translations besides the KJV. I know I read somewhere(and I think it may be Paul's other homosexual verse) where the literal translation was about young boys at the Temple. I may be senile however.
No material on this site is intended to be a substitute for professional medical advice, diagnosis or treatment. See full Medical Disclaimer.
Frok
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AG
I would be interested to what exactly conversion therapy is. I've seen it applauded and I've seen it demonized. My thought is most people just label it based off their inclinations in the homosexual debate.

My initial thought is whatever therapy that is done should be voluntary and never enforced.
Texaggie7nine
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Martin Q. Blank said:

Texaggie7nine said:

Martin Q. Blank said:

Texaggie7nine said:

What makes you so sure that they aren't naturally that way? What is your logical reasoning?
What does it mean to be a "way", "naturally"?
Meaning their attraction to the same sex was not caused by any environmental factors whatsoever. Of course, it is possible that some could be a result of environmental factors, but what evidence do you use to determine that 100% of gay people are that way because of environmental factors?
I never said that.
You insinuate that there is nothing wrong with finding and addressing "root causes" for people being gay. As if there is some validity in "treating the gay away".
7nine
Martin Q. Blank
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dermdoc said:

Martin Q. Blank said:

dermdoc said:

Young's literal translation along with Strong's Concordance and maybe even a Greek dictionary would be a starter.
Romans 1:26-27 Young's Literal Translation (YLT)
26 Because of this did God give them up to dishonourable affections, for even their females did change the natural use into that against nature;
27 and in like manner also the males having left the natural use of the female, did burn in their longing toward one another; males with males working shame, and the recompense of their error that was fit, in themselves receiving.

Strong's
https://www.blueletterbible.org/kjv/rom/1/26/ss1/s_1047026

Greek lexicon
https://www.biblestudytools.com/lexicons/greek/
Not trying to be argumentative but I believe Strong's has different translations besides the KJV. I know I read somewhere(and I think it may be Paul's other homosexual verse) where the literal translation was about young boys at the Temple. I may be senile however.

Strong's is a concordance of the KJV.
Martin Q. Blank
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Texaggie7nine said:

Martin Q. Blank said:

Texaggie7nine said:

Martin Q. Blank said:

Texaggie7nine said:

What makes you so sure that they aren't naturally that way? What is your logical reasoning?
What does it mean to be a "way", "naturally"?
Meaning their attraction to the same sex was not caused by any environmental factors whatsoever. Of course, it is possible that some could be a result of environmental factors, but what evidence do you use to determine that 100% of gay people are that way because of environmental factors?
I never said that.
You insinuate that there is nothing wrong with finding and addressing "root causes" for people being gay. As if there is some validity in "treating the gay away".
What is wrong with finding and addressing root causes for people being gay?
Texaggie7nine
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AGC said:

Texaggie7nine said:

Martin Q. Blank said:

Texaggie7nine said:

What makes you so sure that they aren't naturally that way? What is your logical reasoning?
What does it mean to be a "way", "naturally"?
Meaning their attraction to the same sex was not caused by any environmental factors whatsoever. Of course, it is possible that some could be a result of environmental factors, but what evidence do you use to determine that 100% of gay people are that way because of environmental factors?


Does it matter? All desires should be second to Christ if one is a Christian, regardless of nature or nurture. The idea of someone having inherently sinful desires isn't challenging to doctrine even if they were born that 'way'.
So, just a hypothetical for you. What if your belief was wrong and there isn't a god that cares what the sex of the adult you love is and also being gay was something most gay people were by nature and not by nurture. Now, in this hypothetical situation. Do you think it would be fair for these gay people to believe that they were damaged and that their love for each other was an abomination and that they needed to some how find a way to not be the way they are?
7nine
dermdoc
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AG
Maybe it was not Strong's. I honestly can not remember. I am still trying to figure out how Sheol and a Valley called Gehenna got translated into Hell.
No material on this site is intended to be a substitute for professional medical advice, diagnosis or treatment. See full Medical Disclaimer.
Solo Tetherball Champ
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Beer Baron said:

Solo Tetherball Champ said:

Oh look, another gay thread.
I for one welcome a rare gay thread that doesn't begin with "CAN YOU BELIEVE HOW GAYS ARE RUINING EVERYTHING?" for once.

You know as well as I do that no matter where we start we always end up at the same destination....
dermdoc
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AG
Martin Q. Blank said:

Texaggie7nine said:

Martin Q. Blank said:

Texaggie7nine said:

Martin Q. Blank said:

Texaggie7nine said:

What makes you so sure that they aren't naturally that way? What is your logical reasoning?
What does it mean to be a "way", "naturally"?
Meaning their attraction to the same sex was not caused by any environmental factors whatsoever. Of course, it is possible that some could be a result of environmental factors, but what evidence do you use to determine that 100% of gay people are that way because of environmental factors?
I never said that.
You insinuate that there is nothing wrong with finding and addressing "root causes" for people being gay. As if there is some validity in "treating the gay away".
What is wrong with finding and addressing root causes for people being gay?
Doesn't the verse you cited say that God gave them over to degrading passions? Would not that be the root cause and not their fault? I am not a Calvinist but that sure fits that theology.
No material on this site is intended to be a substitute for professional medical advice, diagnosis or treatment. See full Medical Disclaimer.
Martin Q. Blank
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dermdoc said:

Martin Q. Blank said:

Texaggie7nine said:

Martin Q. Blank said:

Texaggie7nine said:

Martin Q. Blank said:

Texaggie7nine said:

What makes you so sure that they aren't naturally that way? What is your logical reasoning?
What does it mean to be a "way", "naturally"?
Meaning their attraction to the same sex was not caused by any environmental factors whatsoever. Of course, it is possible that some could be a result of environmental factors, but what evidence do you use to determine that 100% of gay people are that way because of environmental factors?
I never said that.
You insinuate that there is nothing wrong with finding and addressing "root causes" for people being gay. As if there is some validity in "treating the gay away".
What is wrong with finding and addressing root causes for people being gay?
Doesn't the verse you cited say that God gave them over to degrading passions? Would not that be the root cause and not their fault? I am not a Calvinist but that sure fits that theology.
Why do you think that? You'd have a weird definition of "cause" if you think it is God's fault.
Texaggie7nine
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Martin Q. Blank said:

Texaggie7nine said:

Martin Q. Blank said:

Texaggie7nine said:

Martin Q. Blank said:

Texaggie7nine said:

What makes you so sure that they aren't naturally that way? What is your logical reasoning?
What does it mean to be a "way", "naturally"?
Meaning their attraction to the same sex was not caused by any environmental factors whatsoever. Of course, it is possible that some could be a result of environmental factors, but what evidence do you use to determine that 100% of gay people are that way because of environmental factors?
I never said that.
You insinuate that there is nothing wrong with finding and addressing "root causes" for people being gay. As if there is some validity in "treating the gay away".
What is wrong with finding and addressing root causes for people being gay?
What's wrong with finding and addressing root causes for people being....

left handed?
partial to pineapple on their pizza?
fans of country music?
A type personalities?

if you are ok with all of these, the I guess your argument makes sense.
7nine
dermdoc
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AG
Sorry I did not mean it was God's fault, but it sounds like He let it happen. Do you believe most gay people choose to be gay?
No material on this site is intended to be a substitute for professional medical advice, diagnosis or treatment. See full Medical Disclaimer.
Martin Q. Blank
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Texaggie7nine said:

Martin Q. Blank said:

Texaggie7nine said:

Martin Q. Blank said:

Texaggie7nine said:

Martin Q. Blank said:

Texaggie7nine said:

What makes you so sure that they aren't naturally that way? What is your logical reasoning?
What does it mean to be a "way", "naturally"?
Meaning their attraction to the same sex was not caused by any environmental factors whatsoever. Of course, it is possible that some could be a result of environmental factors, but what evidence do you use to determine that 100% of gay people are that way because of environmental factors?
I never said that.
You insinuate that there is nothing wrong with finding and addressing "root causes" for people being gay. As if there is some validity in "treating the gay away".
What is wrong with finding and addressing root causes for people being gay?
What's wrong with finding and addressing root causes for people being....

left handed?
partial to pineapple on their pizza?
fans of country music?
A type personalities?

if you are ok with all of these, the I guess your argument makes sense.
Of course I am ok with all of those. Why wouldn't I?
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