Paul added to Torah (baptism). Paul subtracted from Torah (circumcision).
Did Paul follow Torah after his vision?
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Last: 5 yr ago by powerbelly
Paul added baptism?
Immersion (baptism) is a purely Jewish concept:
Women after childbirth or menstruation
A bride before her wedding
Priests (in the Temple) before divine service
Men on Kol Nidre (eve of Yom Kippur) (also optionally, before Shabbat)
For converts to Judaism
In preparation of a dead person for burial
For new kitchen utensils
In Jewish literature it is said that going through the split sea was an immersion.
Wasn't Yeshua immersed?
Paul did nothing of the sort.
If Paul got rid of circumcision, then Timothy got circumcised for nothing. In the Third Temple, if you are not circumcised in the flesh, you can't get in (Ezekiel 44:9).
Did Paul follow Torah? I provided several Scriptures which says he did. He called himself a pharisee late in his ministry. What do Pharisees do? Follow Torah.
Immersion (baptism) is a purely Jewish concept:
Women after childbirth or menstruation
A bride before her wedding
Priests (in the Temple) before divine service
Men on Kol Nidre (eve of Yom Kippur) (also optionally, before Shabbat)
For converts to Judaism
In preparation of a dead person for burial
For new kitchen utensils
In Jewish literature it is said that going through the split sea was an immersion.
Wasn't Yeshua immersed?
Paul did nothing of the sort.
If Paul got rid of circumcision, then Timothy got circumcised for nothing. In the Third Temple, if you are not circumcised in the flesh, you can't get in (Ezekiel 44:9).
Did Paul follow Torah? I provided several Scriptures which says he did. He called himself a pharisee late in his ministry. What do Pharisees do? Follow Torah.
"what has been sacrificed to idols, and from blood, and from what has been strangled, and from sexual immorality. If you keep yourselves from these, you will do well. Farewell."
This is his advice. He also says to eat anything put in front of you that hasn't been sacrificed to an idol in Corinthians I think. So the question is did Paul follow his own advice?
I would probably think so.
This is his advice. He also says to eat anything put in front of you that hasn't been sacrificed to an idol in Corinthians I think. So the question is did Paul follow his own advice?
I would probably think so.
Please show me the command to be baptized in the name of the Father, Son, and Holy Ghost in the first 5 books of the Bible - what you call the Torah.agie95 said:
Paul added baptism?
Immersion (baptism) is a purely Jewish concept:
Women after childbirth or menstruation
A bride before her wedding
Priests (in the Temple) before divine service
Men on Kol Nidre (eve of Yom Kippur) (also optionally, before Shabbat)
For converts to Judaism
In preparation of a dead person for burial
For new kitchen utensils
In Jewish literature it is said that going through the split sea was an immersion.
Wasn't Yeshua immersed?
Paul did nothing of the sort.
If Paul got rid of circumcision, then Timothy got circumcised for nothing. In the Third Temple, if you are not circumcised in the flesh, you can't get in (Ezekiel 44:9).
Did Paul follow Torah? I provided several Scriptures which says he did. He called himself a pharisee late in his ministry. What do Pharisees do? Follow Torah.
Paul established new priesthood (Melchizedek). Paul disestablished old priesthood (Levitical).
Your ignorance is showing...
Genesis 14:8 - And Melchizedek king of Salem brought out bread and wine; now he was a priest of God Most High.
Hebrews 7:1 - For this Melchizedek, king of Salem, priest of the Most High God, who met Abraham as he was returning from the slaughter of the kings and blessed him,
I am going to stop replying to your questions/comments. They are not genuine.
Genesis 14:8 - And Melchizedek king of Salem brought out bread and wine; now he was a priest of God Most High.
Hebrews 7:1 - For this Melchizedek, king of Salem, priest of the Most High God, who met Abraham as he was returning from the slaughter of the kings and blessed him,
I am going to stop replying to your questions/comments. They are not genuine.
What priesthood is ministering now? The one after the order of Melchizedek or Aaron?agie95 said:
Your ignorance is showing...
Genesis 14:8 - And Melchizedek king of Salem brought out bread and wine; now he was a priest of God Most High.
Hebrews 7:1 - For this Melchizedek, king of Salem, priest of the Most High God, who met Abraham as he was returning from the slaughter of the kings and blessed him,
I am going to stop answering your questions. They are not genuine.
Why do you think my questions are not genuine? RetiredAg does the same thing when he has no good answer.
These comments aren't germane to the topic. For the most part, I ignore retiredag.
Says you. Paul says the priesthood now is after the order of Melchizedek, not Aaron. Jesus is the high priest.agie95 said:
These comments aren't germane to the topic. For the most part, I ignore retiredag.
He also gives several new commandments like baptism in the name of the Father, Son, and Holy Ghost which adds to the Torah. Also, directions on the Lord's supper.
Did Paul follow the Torah? Yes. He also changed it.
Martin Q. Blank said:Says you. Paul says the priesthood now is after the order of Melchizedek, not Aaron. Jesus is the high priest.agie95 said:
These comments aren't germane to the topic. For the most part, I ignore retiredag.
He also gives several new commandments like baptism in the name of the Father, Son, and Holy Ghost which adds to the Torah. Also, directions on the Lord's supper.
Did Paul follow the Torah? Yes. He also changed it.
I would rephrase this a bit and say that Paul didn't change anything. Paul realized that Jesus changed the rules by offering life instead of death.
If you email Paul.torason at gmail, I will gladly send you a free copy of my book that addresses many of these topics. Besides not wanting to get involved in an agie95 thread, some explanations are a bit lengthy for a forum like this.
(The offer goes for anyone else as well.)
Shalom.
(The offer goes for anyone else as well.)
Shalom.
Quote:
Women after childbirth or menstruation
A bride before her wedding
Priests (in the Temple) before divine service
Men on Kol Nidre (eve of Yom Kippur) (also optionally, before Shabbat)
For converts to Judaism
In preparation of a dead person for burial
For new kitchen utensils
agie95 said:
It is real easy not to click. The less people post, the further down the line it goes. Hey, thanks for propping it up for me.
I feel you need to be called out. All I can do is voice my opinion.
I know you will never admit that you only come around here to show off your knowledge of Bible verses and call other people ignorant, as you did just a few posts above.
Your tone is always either condescension or derision and you have a bad attitude that your Yeshua would be disappointed in.
Thank you again for propping the post.
Call me out? Whatever. If you are threatened by my knowledge, all I can say is know the Bible better. That poster was just throwing stuff on the wall. He obviously didn't know somethings and was speaking out of ignorance. People see ignorance as a bad thing, but I don't. There are lots of things I am ignorant about, yet I don't get upset about it. If I wanted to know about the topic and would look into it.
People are threatened by the Torah. This is why so many people here and elsewhere come out against it. People in general are against the Torah and Jews. People say they love Israel, they love Jews, but when you probe long enough, they really don't. They love the thought, but that is it. A holocaust/inquisition type of event will happen again. It is already started in France and Poland. Australia is wanting Jews to register to buy kosher meat. It is what it is, people just gonna hate.
1) This has nothing to do with whether or not Paul followed Torah. As you've made it clear that you will not accept any deviation from that very limited question, you should probably hold yourself to the same standard.Quote:
People in general are against the Torah and Jews. People say they love Israel, they love Jews, but when you probe long enough, they really don't. They love the thought, but that is it. A holocaust/inquisition type of event will happen again. It is already started in France and Poland. Australia is wanting Jews to register to buy kosher meat. It is what it is, people just gonna hate.
2) Are you implying that Marco doesn't like Jews? That's really the only logical inference considering you're responding to his post which is critical of you. If that's what you're implying, then that's as uncalled for as the joke he made, which I didn't see, but was apparently over the line. Criticism of a Jewish person is not antisemitism. Criticism of Israel is not antisemitism.
Well, if you can really be objective you could see I accepted outside the lines as long as someone wasn't being obtuse. I answered somethings that were not germane to the op. So to say that I should hold myself to the same standard is a little off, I am following the same course throughout this post...as long as someone isn't be obtuse. I also have a right to defend myself, since he was calling me out, just as you are.RetiredAg said:1) This has nothing to do with whether or not Paul followed Torah. As you've made it clear that you will not accept any deviation from that very limited question, you should probably hold yourself to the same standard.Quote:
People in general are against the Torah and Jews. People say they love Israel, they love Jews, but when you probe long enough, they really don't. They love the thought, but that is it. A holocaust/inquisition type of event will happen again. It is already started in France and Poland. Australia is wanting Jews to register to buy kosher meat. It is what it is, people just gonna hate.
2) Are you implying that Marco doesn't like Jews? That's really the only logical inference considering you're responding to his post which is critical of you. If that's what you're implying, then that's as uncalled for as the joke he made, which I didn't see, but was apparently over the line. Criticism of a Jewish person is not antisemitism. Criticism of Israel is not antisemitism.
I am implying that many people don't like Torah and the Jews. The flesh doesn't want to be held in check. It wants to do what it wants to do and it doesn't want Torah. The Spirit on the other hand wants what is spiritual, which is Torah.
Much criticism of Jewish people and of Israel, is antisemitic. I know you don't think so, but that doesn't make it so. Antisemitism is up and people are hating.
Just because you think it is, doesn't make it so. The term has been thrown out maliciously at people who are critical of Israeli policies. That's not antisemitic. It's become a term cheapened by it's rampant misuse, much like the term "racist".Quote:
Much criticism of Jewish people and of Israel, is antisemitic. I know you don't think so, but that doesn't make it so.
Were you implying that Marco was being antisemitic?
And yet you can't answer my posts. The student has become the teacher. shalomQuote:
That poster was just throwing stuff on the wall. He obviously didn't know somethings and was speaking out of ignorance.
It is quite clear that he doesn't like anything to do with Torah or anyone suggesting to follow it. That is antisemitism.
When you live the live for a little while and feel the effects of it, it is a whole different perspective. One that you can't tell me doesn't exist.
Policies? Who is talking policies? You are bringing something into this that wasn't even close to being discussed. Though if one is on the side of the Palestian's, I would expect anything different.
When you live the live for a little while and feel the effects of it, it is a whole different perspective. One that you can't tell me doesn't exist.
Policies? Who is talking policies? You are bringing something into this that wasn't even close to being discussed. Though if one is on the side of the Palestian's, I would expect anything different.
No, it appears he isn't a fan of your hostile, condescending tone where you pretend to want discussion, but in fact just desire to preach down at others. Or how you start thread after thread about the same topic, never listening to objections and dismissing them as being "ignorant", "obtuse" or "antisemitic". As always, it's your tone that people find objectionable. If it were antisemitism, then Win At Life would face the same harshness, but he doesn't. Why? Because he engages people with respect. You do not.Quote:
It is quite clear that he doesn't like anything to do with Torah or anyone suggesting to follow it. That is antisemitism.
Just because he disagrees with you about the requirement to follow the Torah doesn't mean he doesn't like the Torah either. It just means he disagrees about the requirement. You keep running to antisemitism, which does nothing but shut down dialogue. Of course, you really have no desire for dialogue, so perhaps you don't care.
Who said it doesn't exist? I'm saying it's an overused and misused label, much like the term "racist" has become. Criticism isn't antisemitism. Marco said nothing antisemitic, yet you hurl that accusation (or imply that he's antisemitic).Quote:
When you live the live for a little while and feel the effects of it, it is a whole different perspective. One that you can't tell me doesn't exist.
You mentioned criticism of Israel often being the result of antisemitism. The criticism of Israel is predominantly regarding their oppressive policies. Opposing the actions and policies of the modern nation-state of Israel isn't antisemitic.Quote:
Policies? Who is talking policies? You are bringing something into this that wasn't even close to being discussed. Though if one is on the side of the Palestian's, I would expect anything different.
Now we are finally getting somewhere. Not kidding.
We don't hate the Torah and we don't hate Jewish people. We just don't like the way you interact with others here. Its actually just that simple. But your galaxy-size hubris has obviously destroyed any capacity for self awareness or self critique, so you chalk it all up to antisemitism or whatever you have to tell yourself because it's easier to generalize, label, and stereotype others than to simply look at the plank in your own eye, or to just ask yourself: "is it possible that my tone and arrogance are the reason I haven't won a single convert on this forum yet?"
We don't hate the Torah and we don't hate Jewish people. We just don't like the way you interact with others here. Its actually just that simple. But your galaxy-size hubris has obviously destroyed any capacity for self awareness or self critique, so you chalk it all up to antisemitism or whatever you have to tell yourself because it's easier to generalize, label, and stereotype others than to simply look at the plank in your own eye, or to just ask yourself: "is it possible that my tone and arrogance are the reason I haven't won a single convert on this forum yet?"
Fine, you won. I will never post again, I won't even visit the forum.
May each of you find the truth. Shalom aleichem.
May each of you find the truth. Shalom aleichem.
aleichem shalom
Why leave? Wouldn't it be easier to just soften your tone and engage others respectfully?agie95 said:
Fine, you won. I will never post again, I won't even visit the forum.
May each of you find the truth. Shalom aleichem.
RetiredAg said:Why leave? Wouldn't it be easier to just soften your tone and engage others respectfully?agie95 said:
Fine, you won. I will never post again, I won't even visit the forum.
May each of you find the truth. Shalom aleichem.
Even though he basically called me an antisemite (which is ludicrous), I don't want him to leave either. But I guess it's telling that he would rather take his ball and go home than even consider playing nice with others.
Now concerning food offered to idols: we know that "all of us possess knowledge." This "knowledge" puffs up, but love builds up. 1 CORINTHIANS 8:1
He isn't leaving.RetiredAg said:Why leave? Wouldn't it be easier to just soften your tone and engage others respectfully?agie95 said:
Fine, you won. I will never post again, I won't even visit the forum.
May each of you find the truth. Shalom aleichem.