This post isn't about you or whether one should follow Torah. This is a discussion about what did Paul do per the epistles and Acts, so please keep it at that.

Did Paul keep the Torah after his vision? What verses form the basis for your opinion?

Never mind

Quote:

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Did Paul keep the Torah?

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Of course not. He sinned like anyone else.

Was any man called when he was already circumcised? He is not to become uncircumcised. Has anyone been called in uncircumcision? He is not to be circumcised. Circumcision is nothing, and uncircumcision is nothing, but what matters is the keeping of the commandments of God.
1 Corinthians 7:18-19 NASB
https://bible.com/bible/100/1co.7.18-19.NASB

Aggie4Life02 said:

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Was any man called when he was already circumcised? He is not to become uncircumcised. Has anyone been called in uncircumcision? He is not to be circumcised. Circumcision is nothing, and uncircumcision is nothing, but what matters is the keeping of the commandments of God.
1 Corinthians 7:18-19 NASB
https://bible.com/bible/100/1co.7.18-19.NASB

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Why? Because...

when there is a change in the priesthood, there is necessarily a change in the law as well. Heb. 7:12

Baptism is now the sign of the covenant. Not circumcision.

That is not what keeping Torah means.

If there is a change, the way you think it is then why are they serving in the 3rd Temple:

Ezekiel 44:15-16 - So the Levitical kohanim, the sons of Zadok who kept charge of My Sanctuary when Bnei-Yisrael wandered from Me, will draw near to Me to minister to Me. They will stand before Me to offer Me the fat and the blood"it is declaration of Adonai. 16 "They are ones who will enter My Sanctuary and draw near to My table to minister to Me. They will keep My charge.

I have tried to show that the common Christian understanding of Heb 7:12 is not correct, for as Ezekiel said, the Levitical Priesthood will be in service during the 3rd Temple.

agie95 said:

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That is not what keeping Torah means.

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Yes it does.
For whoever keeps the whole Torah but fails in one point has become guilty of all of it. James 2:10

Acts 25:8 - Paul said in his defense, "I have committed no offense against the Torah of the Jewish people, or against the Temple, or against Caesar."

Paul says he had no offense against the Torah or the Temple....in other words he was keeping Torah.

Acts 21:17-26 - Paul took a Nazarite vow, paid for his and 4 others sacrifices related to this vow to prove that he was keeping Torah. That is equivalent to a years salary during that time.

agie95 said:

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If there is a change, the way you think it is then why are they serving in the 3rd Temple:

Ezekiel 44:15-16 - So the Levitical kohanim, the sons of Zadok who kept charge of My Sanctuary when Bnei-Yisrael wandered from Me, will draw near to Me to minister to Me. They will stand before Me to offer Me the fat and the blood"it is declaration of Adonai. 16 "They are ones who will enter My Sanctuary and draw near to My table to minister to Me. They will keep My charge.

I have tried to show that the common Christian understanding of Heb 7:12 is not correct, for as Ezekiel said, the Levitical Priesthood will be in service during the 3rd Temple.

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Has there been a change in the priesthood? Yes or no?

Does that necessitate a change in the law? Yes or no?

Do Zechariah and Elizabeth sin? Yes, but we know it says this about them:

Luke 1:5-6 - In the days of Herod, King of Judah, there was a kohen named Zechariah from the priestly division of Abijah. Elizabeth, his wife, was from the daughters of Aaron. 6 Together they were righteous before Adonai, walking without fault in all His commandments and instructions.

While the verse you quoted is true, that does not mean one is not walking out Torah. It means they were not perfect in walking out Torah. One sin, makes one imperfect, but Torah has provisions for that. If one makes teshuvah, returning to God's ways, then one is walking in Torah.

Martin Q. Blank said:

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agie95 said:

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If there is a change, the way you think it is then why are they serving in the 3rd Temple:

Ezekiel 44:15-16 - So the Levitical kohanim, the sons of Zadok who kept charge of My Sanctuary when Bnei-Yisrael wandered from Me, will draw near to Me to minister to Me. They will stand before Me to offer Me the fat and the blood"it is declaration of Adonai. 16 "They are ones who will enter My Sanctuary and draw near to My table to minister to Me. They will keep My charge.

I have tried to show that the common Christian understanding of Heb 7:12 is not correct, for as Ezekiel said, the Levitical Priesthood will be in service during the 3rd Temple.

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Has there been a change in the priesthood? Yes or no?

Does that necessitate a change in the law? Yes or no?

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If you want to discuss this verse, start a new thread. It has no bearing on whether or not Paul followed Torah.

agie95 said:

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Martin Q. Blank said:

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agie95 said:

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If there is a change, the way you think it is then why are they serving in the 3rd Temple:

Ezekiel 44:15-16 - So the Levitical kohanim, the sons of Zadok who kept charge of My Sanctuary when Bnei-Yisrael wandered from Me, will draw near to Me to minister to Me. They will stand before Me to offer Me the fat and the blood"it is declaration of Adonai. 16 "They are ones who will enter My Sanctuary and draw near to My table to minister to Me. They will keep My charge.

I have tried to show that the common Christian understanding of Heb 7:12 is not correct, for as Ezekiel said, the Levitical Priesthood will be in service during the 3rd Temple.

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Has there been a change in the priesthood? Yes or no?

Does that necessitate a change in the law? Yes or no?

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If you want to discuss this verse, start a new thread. It has no bearing on whether or not Paul followed Torah.

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It does because we disagree on what the law is. The priesthood has changed and the laws associated with the Levitical has passed away with it. Circumcision is no longer the sign. Baptism is. The passover meal is no longer the sign. The Lord's supper is.

This does not have any bearing if Paul followed Torah....the Law of Moses. Paul was imprisoned prior to the writing of Hebrews and the destruction of the Temple. There is outside evidence of the disciples participating in sacrifices in the Temple their entire lives.

The Passover meal was never a sign to a covenant.

I will discuss the verse, just not on this thread.

agie95 said:

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This does not have any bearing if Paul followed Torah....the Law of Moses. Paul was imprisoned prior to the writing of Hebrews and the destruction of the Temple. There is outside evidence of the disciples participating in sacrifices in the Temple their entire lives.

The Passover meal was never a sign to a covenant.

I will discuss the verse, just not on this thread.

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Must one be baptized to keep the Torah?

That is not a did Paul follow Torah discussion.

agie95 said:

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That is not a did Paul follow Torah discussion.

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Must one partake in the Lord's supper to keep the Torah? Did Paul, et. al. add to the law?

This thread is whether or not someone kept Torah in their daily life or did he live apart from the Torah.

This thread is not whether someone sinned or not or what is a sin.

How do we know if one kept the Torah if we don't know what that means?

You know what it means. The Torah is in the first 5 books. If you are not knowledgeable enough to discuss, then maybe you should just read what others post.

Acts 24:17 - Now after several years, I came to bring tzedakah to my country for the poor and to present offerings.

Paul bringing sacrifices...

agie95 said:

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You know what it means. The Torah is in the first 5 books.

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Disagree.

In the Law it is written, "By people of strange tongues and by the lips of foreigners will I speak to this people, and even then they will not listen to me, says the Lord." 1 Cor. 14:21

Was that written in the first 5 books?

Martin Q. Blank said:

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agie95 said:

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You know what it means. The Torah is in the first 5 books.

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Disagree.

In the Law it is written, "By people of strange tongues and by the lips of foreigners will I speak to this people, and even then they will not listen to me, says the Lord." 1 Cor. 14:21

Was that written in the first 5 books?

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You can disagree all you want. You don't know what you are talking about. That is a quote from Isaiah. It is not a commandment. It is not a part of the Torah.

agie95 said:

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Martin Q. Blank said:

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agie95 said:

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You know what it means. The Torah is in the first 5 books.

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Disagree.

In the Law it is written, "By people of strange tongues and by the lips of foreigners will I speak to this people, and even then they will not listen to me, says the Lord." 1 Cor. 14:21

Was that written in the first 5 books?

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You can disagree all you want. You don't know what you are talking about. That is a quote from Isaiah. It is not a commandment. It is not a part of the Torah.

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It says "In the Law it is written..." I suppose Paul thought Isaiah was part of the Law.

Again, you don't know what you are talking about. Nomos is used in different ways. There are Jews today who call the Torah and the Prophets Torah. That doesn't mean that the Torah, the commandments, is added to by the prophets.

The 613 commandments are listed in Genesis - Deuteronomy.

agie95 said:

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Again, you don't know what you are talking about. Nomos is used in different ways. There are Jews today who call the Torah and the Prophets Torah. That doesn't mean that the Torah, the commandments, is added to by the prophets.

The 613 commandments are listed in Genesis - Deuteronomy.

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What about the commandment to baptize?

The early churches were certainly diverse in teaching, and we can see an evolution of belief and and orthodoxy, but I've never seen anything indicating that a clean split from practicing Jews to Christians ever occurred.

This wiki does a decent rundown:

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Split_of_early_Christianity_and_Judaism

The events of acts always seemed to me to show Paul as an advocate for the ministry to gentiles and That they shouldn't be held to the totality if Jewish law.

To the extent that we assume this event occured as recorded (which many doubt) it seems difficult to argue they did not make an exception:

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Council_of_Jerusalem

Bad bull. This isn't the gen board

And yet here you are.

If it makes you feel any better, my mom died 12 years ago.

agie95 said:

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If it makes you feel any better, my mom died 12 years ago.

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Feel better about what?

His tasteless joke about my mother.

It is real easy not to click. The less people post, the further down the line it goes. Hey, thanks for propping it up for me.

Does Paul follow Torah though?