I didn't claim anything. You put out a half baked argument based on an irrelevant scripture. Christ Jesus did not say if you don't handle a snake there is no life in you. He did say that about His blood and flesh.

Faith is not "evidence". There is as much evidence for the Holy Spirit living in you as there is for the Eucharist. How's it feel on the limb?

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I didn't claim anything. You put out a half baked argument based on an irrelevant scripture. Christ Jesus did not say if you don't handle a snake there is no life in you. He did say that about His blood and flesh.

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I brought forth that scripture to illustrate how you conveniently choose to believe in miracles that don't require evidence, yet believe that the sort of visible signs and wonders that Jesus never put a time limit on were only for a bygone era. You claim to take Christ at his word... and only do it when it is comfortable for you. Some faith you got there, bro.

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The quandary is when people presume to suggest that a metaphysical change is not "real".

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It seems that quite a lot more Christians are willing to accept this nonsense than the realness of a man or a woman believing they are really the opposite gender.

To suggest that a metaphysical change is "real" when you can't even prove that anything supernatural at all exists just reeks of desperately trying to explain the unexplainable.

Woody2006 said:

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The quandary is when people presume to suggest that a metaphysical change is not "real".

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It seems that quite a lot more Christians are willing to accept this nonsense than the realness of a man or a woman believing they are really the opposite gender.

To suggest that a metaphysical change is "real" when you can't even prove that anything supernatural at all exists just reeks of desperately trying to explain the unexplainable.

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Mind editing this away, Woody? I feel like this is worthy of it's own topic.

Do you think gender is a metaphysical construct?

That would be interesting considering they claim a physiological brain change is a key factor.

The entire topic of sex and gender seems far more physical than metaphysical to me. Especially as it is completely represented by tangible realities.

Are you having fun pummeling the strawman you made? I never said anything about limitations to a bygone era. I'm quite comfortable where I sit. You're then one left trying to figure out what kind of faith is evidence of reality and what kind isn't.

k2aggie07 said:

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Are you having fun pummeling the strawman you made? I never said anything about limitations to a bygone era. I'm quite comfortable where I sit. You're then one left trying to figure out what kind of faith is evidence of reality and what kind isn't.

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I'll ask you point blank. Is this statement true for the modern day believer? Should we see this in and around the believers life?

"And these signs shall follow them that believe; In my name shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues; They shall take up serpents; and if they drink any deadly thing, it shall not hurt them; they shall lay hands on the sick, and they shall recover."

Yes or No?

"Should" we see it is a strange question. I do not think that these things are a litmus test for the faithfulness of a believer, which seems to be your assertion. The absence - or presence - of these things has no bearing on whether or not a person is a believer.

That being said, in history many of these things and more have been done by believers, and not just by the apostles. Why you are so insistent on creating a test of faith from a prophetic statement is confusing.

I do believe people still perform "tangible" miracles, and not limited to those in the list.

Now that we're done with your pointless derail, can you stop ducking and examine your own position? How is the evidence or faith of the indwelling Spirit different than the evidence or faith of the Eucharist?