What is new about the new covenant?

1,997 Views | 33 Replies | Last: 5 yr ago by agie95
Martin Q. Blank
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Curious what changed between the old and new covenant?
chuckd
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AG
The substance is the same, but different degree: "grace and salvation are held forth in more fulness, evidence, and efficacy, to all nations." (WLC Q35)

Ceremonials - baptism and Lord's supper are much easier than passover, circumcision, etc. Worship in general is easier.
FTACo88-FDT24dad
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AG
Serious question- does it matter whether it is "a new covenant" or "the new covenant"?
Martin Q. Blank
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"a" is an indefinite article and "the" is a definite article.
Athanasius
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AG
Jeremah 31:

31 "Behold, the days are coming, says the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah-- 32 not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt, My covenant which they broke, though I was a husband to them, F23 says the Lord. 33 But this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, says the Lord: I will put My law in their minds, and write it on their hearts; and I will be their God, and they shall be My people. 34 No more shall every man teach his neighbor, and every man his brother, saying, 'Know the Lord,' for they all shall know Me, from the least of them to the greatest of them, says the Lord. For I will forgive their iniquity, and their sin I will remember no more."

Heb 8:

8 Because finding fault with them, He says: "Behold, the days are coming, says the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah-- 9 not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day when I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt; because they did not continue in My covenant, and I disregarded them, says the Lord. 10 For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, says the Lord: I will put My laws in their mind and write them on their hearts; and I will be their God, and they shall be My people. 11 None of them shall teach his neighbor, and none his brother, saying, 'Know the Lord,' for all shall know Me, from the least of them to the greatest of them.

Matthew 26:

While they were eating, Jesus took bread, and when he had given thanks, he broke it and gave it to his disciples, saying, "Take and eat; this is my body."

Then he took a cup, and when he had given thanks, he gave it to them, saying, "Drink from it, all of you. This is my blood of the covenant, which is poured out for many for the forgiveness of sins.
Martin Q. Blank
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Can you summarize what is new about the new covenant?
DirtDiver
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Quote:

Curious what changed between the old and new covenant?

  • the permanance of the indwelling Holy Spirit for those believe in Jesus.
  • information: the gentiles are fellow heirs through faith
  • sacrifce of created animals vs the sacrifice of the Creator Himself
Martin Q. Blank
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DirtDiver said:


Quote:

Curious what changed between the old and new covenant?

  • the permanance of the indwelling Holy Spirit for those believe in Jesus.
  • information: the gentiles are fellow heirs through faith
  • sacrifce of created animals vs the sacrifice of the Creator Himself

  • Did people in the old covenant not have the indwelling Holy Spirit? What was the difference in "performance"?
  • Examples of Gentiles who came to faith in the old covenant.
  • How did the sacrifice of created animals save people? Did they put faith in the animal like we put faith in Jesus?
Pro Sandy
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AG
Whats new is that how our salvation is achieved was revealed.

In the past God spoke to our ancestors through the prophets at many times and in various ways, but in these last days he has spoken to us by his Son, whom he appointed heir of all things, and through whom also he made the universe. The Son is the radiance of God's glory and the exact representation of his being, sustaining all things by his powerful word. After he had provided purification for sins, he sat down at the right hand of the Majesty in heaven. -Heb 1:1-3

What those of old only understood in faith, we understand in Christ.

DirtDiver
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Quote:

Did people in the old covenant not have the indwelling Holy Spirit? What was the difference in "performance"?
God indwelled people in the OT to do His work however the Spirit was not a permanent indwelling.
Now the Spirit of the Lord departed from Saul, and an evil spirit from the Lord terrorized him. 1 Sam. 16:14

After resurrection of Jesus, believers are permanently indwelt with the first fruits of the Holy Spirit until the day of redemption. Eph1:13-14


Quote:

Examples of Gentiles who came to faith in the old covenant.
Melchizedek, those who believed from Nineveh at the preaching of Jonah. There were many believers however more was revealed in the NT. More info..

3 that by revelation there was made known to me the mystery, as I wrote before in brief. 4 By referring to this, when you read you can understand my insight into the mystery of Christ, 5 which in other generations was not made known to the sons of men, as it has now been revealed to His holy apostles and prophets in the Spirit; 6 to be specific, that the Gentiles are fellow heirs and fellow members of the body, and fellow partakers of the promise in Christ Jesus through the gospel, Eph. 3

Quote:


How did the sacrifice of created animals save people? Did they put faith in the animal like we put faith in Jesus?
The sacrifice of created animals never saved anyone. God is always 'saves' people or credits them righteous through their faith in Him. Hebrews 9 provides most of the answers to this question.


Zobel
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AG
The old covenant promised only earthly material blessings. The new covenant promises eternal life and the defeat of death. That's the main difference, in my opinion.
agie95
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AG
source?
Zobel
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AG
For the old covenant see Deuteronomy 28. You could also consider Ecclesiastes 2:24-26.

On the other hand, the new covenant doesn't offer plentiful rain or abundance or happiness, even. In the Sermon on the Mount the blessing are of the kingdom of heaven, of comfort, of the earth, being filled with righteousness, mercy, seeing God, being a son of God. The new covenant promises rest (Matthew 11:28) but requires self denial (Matthew 16:24) and promises persecution (Luke 21:12 etc).

St Peter says the promise is the forgiveness of sins and the Holy Spirit (Acts 2:38). St Paul teaches that through this we are being transformed into the image of God (2 Cor 3:18). With this we can become the righteousness of God. (2 Cor 5:21). Now we receive spiritual blessings (Ephesians 1:3).

St Paul shows clearly the better promise in Acts 13, where he says that through Christ Jesus we receive freedom from every sin, "a justification you were not able to obtain under the law of Moses."

The new covenant is to be united to Christ in both His death and resurrection (Romans 6:5-11).

The last enemy to be destroyed is death, so ultimately the gift of Christ is the destruction of death. (1 Cor 15:26, 2 Timothy 1:10).
Martin Q. Blank
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k2aggie07 said:

The old covenant promised only earthly material blessings. The new covenant promises eternal life and the defeat of death. That's the main difference, in my opinion.
So there was no salvation in the old covenant, other than salvation from their enemies/captivity?
Zobel
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AG
Salvation from what?
Martin Q. Blank
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k2aggie07 said:

Salvation from what?
That's my question. Were they saved from something different in the old covenant than the new? Other than physical captivity.
Zobel
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AG
There is no eternal salvation apart from Christ. What I understand this to mean is salvation from death, from hades.
Martin Q. Blank
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k2aggie07 said:

There is no eternal salvation apart from Christ. What I understand this to mean is salvation from death, from hades.
and "you shall call his name Jesus, for he will save his people from their sins."
agie95
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AG
Isaiah 45:21-22 - Declare and present your case,
Indeed, let them consult together.
Who foretold this from ancient time?
Who has declared it of old?
Is it not I, Adonai?
There is no other God beside Me
a righteous God and a Savior
there is none besides Me!
22 Turn to Me, and be saved,
all the ends of the earth.
For I am Godthere is no other.

Is salvation from God or the Messiah?
Zobel
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AG
Yes. Death is caused by sin.
Zobel
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AG
So what do you think it means when Christ Jesus is referred to as Lord over and over? Hmmmmm.
agie95
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AG
So if one trusts God, he trusts the Messiah. Therefore, a belief in the Messiah is not necessary for salvation.

I am not saying this necessarily, trying to figure out your reasoning.
agie95
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AG
How do you define sin? What is sin?
Martin Q. Blank
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k2aggie07 said:

Yes. Death is caused by sin.
Well anyway. Were those in the old covenant not saved from death/sin by Christ?
DirtDiver
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"Old Covenent"

Abe covenant - 3 things promised
Land - ties to Mosaic covenant - obey your in the land, disobey your out
Seed - ties to Davidic covenant - seed specified in the line of David
Blessing (I will bless all of the families of the earth through you - Ties to the New Covenant
Martin Q. Blank
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DirtDiver said:

"Old Covenent"

Abe covenant - 3 things promised
Land - ties to Mosaic covenant - obey your in the land, disobey your out
Seed - ties to Davidic covenant - seed specified in the line of David
Blessing (I will bless all of the families of the earth through you - Ties to the New Covenant

Don't forget
Noah - no more wiping out the human race by flood
Adam - (1) life if you obey, death if you disobey (2) crush the serpent, enmity between seed and seed.

Good point though, what is the "old covenant"?
Zobel
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AG
They were. Death is defeated.

"Multitudes who sleep in the dust of the earth will awake: some to everlasting life, others to shame and everlasting contempt." Daniel 12:2


"Do not marvel at this, for an hour is coming in which all those in the tombs will hear His voice, and will come forth--those having done good to the resurrection of life, and those having done evil to the resurrection of judgment." John 5:28-29

"Your dead will live; Their corpses will rise. You who lie in the dust, awake and shout for joy, For your dew is as the dew of the dawn, And the earth will give birth to the departed spirits." Isaiah 26:19

"Arise, shine, for your light has come, and the glory of the Lord rises upon you. See, darkness covers the earth
and thick darkness is over the peoples, but the Lord rises upon you and his glory appears over you." Note that St Paul paraphrases this in Ephesians 5:14 when he writes "So it is said: 'Wake up, O sleeper, rise up from the dead, and Christ will shine on you.' " (Note well to St Paul, the Lord of Isaiah 60 is Christ!)
Martin Q. Blank
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Quote:

They were. Death is defeated.

"Multitudes who sleep in the dust of the earth will awake: some to everlasting life, others to shame and everlasting contempt." Daniel 12:2


"Do not marvel at this, for an hour is coming in which all those in the tombs will hear His voice, and will come forth--those having done good to the resurrection of life, and those having done evil to the resurrection of judgment." John 5:28-29

"Your dead will live; Their corpses will rise. You who lie in the dust, awake and shout for joy, For your dew is as the dew of the dawn, And the earth will give birth to the departed spirits." Isaiah 26:19

"Arise, shine, for your light has come, and the glory of the Lord rises upon you. See, darkness covers the earth
and thick darkness is over the peoples, but the Lord rises upon you and his glory appears over you." Note that St Paul paraphrases this in Ephesians 5:14 when he writes "So it is said: 'Wake up, O sleeper, rise up from the dead, and Christ will shine on you.' " (Note well to St Paul, the Lord of Isaiah 60 is Christ!)
Sounds like a promise of eternal life to me.
Zobel
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AG
...yes?
Martin Q. Blank
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You said the old covenant promised only earthly material blessings. The new covenant promises eternal life and the defeat of death. That's the main difference, in my opinion.
Zobel
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AG
I'm very confused right now.

The promise of eternal life was prophesied about, and realized in Christ. So if you want to say that since the Prophets were in the old covenant, then I suppose you can look at it as one thing. Because it is, the entirety of the scriptures points to Christ as "the mystery hidden from the ages and from the generations, but now manifested to His saints".


But usually when people are talking about covenants they are talking about the specific promises associated with the covenant between God and the patriarchs or the nation of Israel.
Martin Q. Blank
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So the old covenant believers were actually in the new covenant too?
Zobel
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AG
I think they were waiting for it in life and in death. I don't think they were "in" the new covenant.
agie95
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AG
Has the new covenant started? Have any of the promises directly tied to what Scripture says are promises (not stuff made up b/c you believe it to be) of the new covenant actually been realized?

Going back to the premise of the OP, what are the promises of the New Covenant? Those specifically said to be from the new covenant.
agie95
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AG
I think it is interesting that there is so little knowledge about this or maybe there is a disinterest. From my viewpoint, and I believe it is God's viewpoint, there is basically one promise in the New Covenant. This one promise has a couple points.

The promise of the New Covenant is

"But this is the covenant I will make with the house of Israel after those days"
it is a declaration of Adonai"I will put My Torah within them. Yes, I will write it on their heart.
I will be their God and they will be My people. Jeremiah 31:32

The Torah is not going to be just written on tablets of stone, God is going to write it on heart of those in covenant with Him. This was God's intent in the beginning....for His Torah to be on someone's heart:

Deuteronomy 6:4-6 - "Hear O Israel, the Lord our God, the Lord is one. 5 Love Adonai your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your strength. 6 These words, which I am commanding you today, are to be on your heart.

This statement of the Shema is to hear and obey all of the commandments. These commandments are to be on your heart. Basically, internalized. This is something we failed to do. The problem is not the Torah. The problem is not God. The problem is us - people.

So what is God going to do? Change His Torah? Change His righteous standard? That would be heresy. God, through the prophets, never said His standard was going to be changed. Instead, God said through His prophets, that the people would be changed.

In Ezekiel, it says once the people are gathered (think resurrection) it then says 11:19-20:

Then I will give them one heart. I will put a new Spirit within them. I will remove the heart of stone from their flesh and give them a heart of flesh, 20 so that they may follow My laws, keep My ordinances and practice them. They will be My people and I will be their God.

again in 36:26-27:

Moreover I will give you a new heart. I will put a new spirit within you. I will remove the stony heart from your flesh and give you a heart of flesh. 27 I will put My Ruach within you. Then I will cause you to walk in My laws, so you will keep My rulings and do them.

Again in 37:15-28: link

God has always wanted His people to obey Him. He did not change that standard when Yeshua died. Yeshua paid our price for our sin (Colossians 2:14), but He did not change His Torah, He did not change what was considered sin. Did He clarify somethings that were being taught by the people? Yes, but that is not changing what was originally given by the voice of God. Did He get rid of the very life He lived? No. That was a lie that was propugated against Him:

Acts 6:11; 13-14 - Then they secretly instigated men into saying, "We have heard him speaking blasphemous words against Moses and against God!" They set up false witnesses who said, "This man never stops speaking words against this holy place and the Torah. 14 For we have heard him saying that this Yeshua ha-Natzrati will destroy this place and change the customs that Moses handed down to us."

Jeremiah continued speaking about the New Covenant and what will happen when the Torah is put in you and written on ones heart:

v32 - No longer will each teach his neighbor or each his brother, saying: 'Know Adonai,' for they will all know Me, from the least of them to the greatest." it is a declaration of Adonai. "For I will forgive their iniquity,
their sin I will remember no more."

So everyone will know God. No longer will someone have to teach someone else about God. I don't think we are living in this time. I think we all know that people today do not act as if the Torah is on their hearts and people are still being taught about God.

The kingdom is still near. It is not here yet. Not everything is subjected to Yeshua at this time. He has been given the kingship, but He is not reigning quite yet:

Hebrews 2:8b - But for now we do not yet see all things subjected to him.

The parable in Luke 19 explains where we are at for the last 2,000 years:

v11-12 - Yeshua went on to tell a parable, because He was near Jerusalem and they supposed that the kingdom of God was about to appear at once. 12 Therefore He said, "A certain nobleman went to a faraway land to receive for himself a kingdom and then return.

Nobleman is Yeshua. He is faraway right now receiving the kingdom and will return.

v13-14 - And calling ten of his own slaves, he gave them ten minas and said to them, 'Do business until I come back.' 14 But his citizens detested him and they sent a delegation after him, saying, 'We don't want this fellow to reign over us!'

Those in the kingdom should be doing the king's business, but many say I don't want this guy to reign over us.

Then we have the new king speaking to His subjects to see if they were doing His work.

v27 - But those hostile to me, who didn't want me to reign over them, bring them here and execute them before me.'"

Those who doesn't do His work will be executed.

Those who trust in God, trust in His wisdom, His Torah made flesh, have a deposit of the Holy Spirit, but only a deposit....a guarantee. This guarantee is not once saved always saved. You can lose the deposit.

Hebrews 3:14 - For we have become partners of Messiah, if we hold our original conviction firm until the end.

One, who is grafted in, can be cutoff just as those who were originally part of the tree.

The covenants are with the houses of Israel and not Gentiles. Gentiles can be grafted in, but the covenant is not with them.

Over and over again, the prophets speak of a time when there is a universal knowledge of God. Those would be the Messianic Days, the Millennial Kingdom days, but not today. May it this day come soon....

In those days, Jerusalem and the Temple will get rebuilt per Jeremiah and Ezekiel. This is another promise made by God. Ezekiel spends 8 chapters going over this with quite a bit of detail.

Israel will be cleaned and purified. This is not b/c of anything they did, but so that God's name will be honored. It is for His sake that Israel will be honored.

To enter the kingdom, one must repent from their sins. The same sins that Yeshua spoke about repenting from are the same ones everyone today must repent from. The marker did not change. All must seek to be reconciled to God. Yes, Yeshua paid the price for everyone, but only if you truly turn to God. For the Son is subjected to Him.
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