Corporal discipline?

1,941 Views | 22 Replies | Last: 5 yr ago by Zobel
Star Wars Memes Only
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A few questions on this.

To all: What are you guys' opinions on corporal punishment? I would love to see the discussion that stems from this.

To retired, and other Christians who are against corporal punishment: how do you interpret "spare the rod, spoil the child" and other such verses?

PacifistAg
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AG
This is what I had posted on the other thread. I deleted and am moving it over here:


Quote:

Retired, I'm curious, how do you interpret "spare the rod, spoil the child" and other similar verses?
Well, "spare the rod, spoil the child" isn't actually a Bible verse. But, as for the "rod" verses that you're alluding to, here's a good write-up on them that goes into the original Hebrew. I see the "rod", not as a literal device to hit children with. The word that gets translated to "rod" is shebet.
Quote:

The word shebet is translated 'rod' and means, literally, 'shepherd's crook' and, in Hebrew culture, was a means not only of guiding and protecting sheep, but also a symbol of leadership. The markings on the head of the shebet often identified the head of a family or tribe, letting everyone know who to go to for guidance and protection. The shebet, then, denotes wisdom, leadership, and protection
So, we do not "spare the rod" with our children. We do use wisdom and leadership in guiding them. We do use our instruction and experience. Everything we do involves teaching them. We don't hit them, much less with a rod.


“Conquer men by your gentle kindness, and make zealous men wonder at your goodness. Put the lover of justice to shame by your compassion."
--St Isaac the Syrian
PacifistAg
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AG

Quote:

To all: What are you guys' opinions on corporal punishment?
Well, I don't think it's a surprise that I'm opposed to it. I oppose all violence, even in parenting. Perhaps having a special needs child has helped in this regard because we soon realized that the violent way was only harming our son, harming the relationship I had with our son, and was utterly ineffective. Numerous studies have also pointed to the harmful psychological effects of hitting as a form of discipline.

I will add that abandoning corporal punishment has had profound positive impacts on our family. There's a greater trust between us and our kids. There's a greater respect between us and our kids. We have learned to talk things through to find a solution, which has helped them grow as people. We've seen that in their lives outside the home and how they interact with others, in their peer group and outside of it.
“Conquer men by your gentle kindness, and make zealous men wonder at your goodness. Put the lover of justice to shame by your compassion."
--St Isaac the Syrian
LevelAg
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What about these verses?

Proverbs 23:13-14 Do not hold back discipline from the child, Although you strike him with the rod, he will not die. (14) You shall strike him with the rod And rescue his soul from Sheol.




PacifistAg
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AG
Those verses are addressed in the link provided above. We don't hold back discipline from our children. We just don't use violence as a form of discipline. We disciple them. We teach them. We guide them. We instruct them. If we're to take those English translations literally, then most here would fall short as I doubt anyone here hits their children with a rod (or shepherd's crook, as the original language indicates).
“Conquer men by your gentle kindness, and make zealous men wonder at your goodness. Put the lover of justice to shame by your compassion."
--St Isaac the Syrian
Dr. Venkman
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My wife and I spank. We tried time outs for a while, but felt it was not effective and often times confusing to our children. Spanking is an immediate consequence that they feel in the body. We make sure they understand why they are spanked, they apologize, we forgive them, that we love them. Always in private too.
Martin Q. Blank
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RetiredAg said:

here's a good write-up on them that goes into the original Hebrew.


Sounds like a real expert in the Hebrew language. The verse says "strike", not guide.
Martin Q. Blank
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Retired, do your children find the discipline you give to them painful?
schmendeler
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AG
I think spanking should be the last resort. Usually there are ways to correct the behavior without resorting to the least considered approach.
AGC
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AG
dargscisyhp said:

A few questions on this.

To all: What are you guys' opinions on corporal punishment? I would love to see the discussion that stems from this.

To retired, and other Christians who are against corporal punishment: how do you interpret "spare the rod, spoil the child" and other such verses?




So there are a few key concepts to this: situation, disposition, and age.

1. Situation - you should have no qualms about corporal punishment when the world's consequences are worse than yours. Think running into a street or running away when you tell a child to come. If they run into a street and get hit by a car, that's far worse than a spanking. Or what if they're playing hide and go seek with you while you're camping but don't come when you repeatedly tell them it's time to go. It's an important lesson to learn early but cognitively they can't understand it, so this will impart importance and gravity to commands. I'm not suggesting you spank them for not eating peas or making a mess.

We use it when we have exhausted other forms of discipline. We try to start with timeout but our oldest doesn't care about that. Then we escalate to toy prison for prized possessions for a day. If those don't work and it's a serious issue we'll go higher.

Also think about timing. If you have kids in bed do you want to pull them out for timeout (they may want to stay up anyways so this has the opposite effect of what you want)? Will they miss a toy put in prison? It's not ideal but it's understandable for a time.

2. Disposition - all children are different. Some will not be able to handle spanking consistently so you have to find other ways as soon as you can. Once they master important lessons move on with punishment. My youngest opens doors without permission and unlocks them. We spanked for a while but it makes her pretty hysterical so we've advanced more quickly than we did with the first who is super willful and needed it.

3. Age - they should age out of it. By five you should be moving on to other disciplines. They can talk and reason and have attachments to toys or shows that you can withhold. It's more ammunition but it's so rare that we have to use it with our five year old.

We also try to tell them consequences before they occur so there are no surprises. I do make exceptions for hitting or being spiteful and defiant, in which case consequences are immediate timeouts or other discipline if it warrants it. No discipline is administered without explanation either. There are defined expectations and we connect actions to punishment.
LevelAg
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I read your link, but I think he is being quite loose with translations that aren't supported. The word for "strike" or "beat" in Proverbs 23:13, he argues can be "trigger the conscience." That isn't how it is translated anywhere in the OT.

Exodus 2:11-12 Now it came about in those days, when Moses had grown up, that he went out to his brethren and looked on their hard labors; and he saw an Egyptian beating a Hebrew, one of his brethren. (12) So he looked this way and that, and when he saw there was no one around, he struck down the Egyptian and hid him in the sand.

Exodus 21:12 "Whoever strikes a man so that he dies shall be put to death.

Exodus 21:15 "Whoever strikes his father or his mother shall be put to death.

Does God mean "whoever triggers the conscience of his father or mother shall be led down the path of destruction?" I don't think anyone believes that is what God is saying, so I feel the author is being disingenuous to suggest the translation he does for Proverbs 23 - translating God's word according to his beliefs rather than aligning his beliefs with the word.

Now, your decision to not spank is yours, and your business.








Win At Life
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AG
AGC covered it pretty well. I'll add that the first spanking needs to be both at an age they will be able to remember and hard enough and long enough that they will remember it for a long time. Do that and you should only need to do it once or twice before they are too old to spank, but they'll still remember it well enough to control their behavior long after that.
dermdoc
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Win At Life said:

AGC covered it pretty well. I'll add that the first spanking needs to be both at an age they will be able to remember and hard enough and long enough that they will remember it for a long time. Do that and you should only need to do it once or twice before they are too old to spank, but they'll still remember it well enough to control their behavior long after that.
Agree. I spanked my daughters twice I think and it must have worked.
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DirtDiver
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Old Chinese Proverb: "Spank your kids once a day even if you do not know what wrong they did, they surely know."
sawemoff2010
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AG
For what it's worth, my son is to young for spanking, but my wife and i plan to use it in the future but only as a last resort. We consider it the "Nuclear Option" and plan to restrict it for acts of outright, intentional rebellion.
Ralphy
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DirtDiver said:

Old Chinese Proverb: "Spank your kids once a day even if you do not know what wrong they did, they surely know."


This is utterly disturbing. It's not lol worthy or smiley face worthy. It's in line with the ******baggery of a generation and it's bad advice. I'm not a soft parent and I'm not against spanking but this gleeful bs about spanking your kid because they probably did something is simultaneously ****ed up and stereotypically Christian.
Star Wars Memes Only
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Eh, it's at least lol worthy.
DirtDiver
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Quote:

This is utterly disturbing. It's not lol worthy or smiley face worthy. It's in line with the ******baggery of a generation and it's bad advice. I'm not a soft parent and I'm not against spanking but this gleeful bs about spanking your kid because they probably did something is simultaneously ****ed up and stereotypically Christian.
Ralphy - the Chinese proverb was pretty witty if you think about it however it was a harmless joke that no Christian I know would ever apply. It was not offered as advice. Saying that spanking a kid withouth cause being stereotypical of Christianity is like saying the KKK is stereotypical of being Christian. My wish for you is that one day you will see the truth behind the stereotypes, like all of the Aferican Americans who kept their faith in Jesus and continued to put their fath in Jesus while being persecuted by the KKK.
Sapper Redux
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I understand why spanking is used. It was used on me as a kid. But I don't find it helpful or valuable with my kids. My daughter is extremely sensitive (and has a sensory processing issue) and spanking her would probably seriously scar her for very little benefit. Generally, I find using pain to teach children to be counterproductive. They aren't able to understand much in the way of nuance and the research out there suggests long term problems with a lot of spanking.
Martin Q. Blank
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Dr. Watson said:

I understand why spanking is used. It was used on me as a kid. But I don't find it helpful or valuable with my kids. My daughter is extremely sensitive (and has a sensory processing issue) and spanking her would probably seriously scar her for very little benefit. Generally, I find using pain to teach children to be counterproductive. They aren't able to understand much in the way of nuance and the research out there suggests long term problems with a lot of spanking.
So that explains it.
PacifistAg
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Quote:

My daughter is extremely sensitive (and has a sensory processing issue) and spanking her would probably seriously scar her for very little benefit.
Our son is the same, and even though we stopped using hitting as a form of discipline for years, it still bothers him so much that he will make comments about it.
Sapper Redux
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Troll better
BrazosDog02
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AG
Ralphy said:

DirtDiver said:

Old Chinese Proverb: "Spank your kids once a day even if you do not know what wrong they did, they surely know."


This is utterly disturbing. It's not lol worthy or smiley face worthy. It's in line with the ******baggery of a generation and it's bad advice. I'm not a soft parent and I'm not against spanking but this gleeful bs about spanking your kid because they probably did something is simultaneously ****ed up and stereotypically Christian.
Holy crap. I bet you're a fun person at parties.

You can count me in as a person who FIRMLY believes there are more children than not that should have had, should still have, and seriously need spankings or downright ass beating to correct much of their misguided behavior. Some of them are 20 years or older....

I had "sensory perception" issues as a kid as well and spanking bothered me so much that I did what I was told when I was told to do it. I sensed I was going to be asked to do something and perceived that the right answer was "I don't feel like it". I was wrong. Perception corrected.
Zobel
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AG
Unclutch those pearls there little fella.
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