RetiredAg said:

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You realize this took place in 2006 and has been publicly denied by Trump right? That's why your jimmies being rustled is so absurd. You decided that he's guilty (on your own) and that you're going to judge every Christian that doesn't condemn it.

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Again, I've already said I have no idea if it's true. My issue is with Jeffress saying that even it it's true, it's "totally irrelevant". My issue is with Jeffress saying he wants a professed Christian to look nothing like the Sermon on the Mount. This thread isn't about Trump. It's about Jeffress and his comments. I'm not judging Christians that don't condemn Trump because of the accusations. I'm criticizing a supposedly Christian minister who said that even if they're true, they're "totally irrelevant". I have no issue with a Christian saying, "I have no idea if they're true, so I'll refrain from comment". That's not what Jeffress did. You keep trying to make this about Trump. It's not. It's about Jeffress.

If, say, Shane Claiborne said whether or not Hillary was responsible for people dying at Benghazi, it would be "totally irrelevant", I'd have the same reaction.

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And 'whataboutism' is more bs to dismiss arguments out of hand without engaging them (like sea-lioning). Truly, if the morality of a leader matters to the Christian that praises him, this is an easy litmus test of your conviction that no immoral action can be ignored. You've side stepped it twice now. Is it really so hard to say MLK was a scumbag and that Christian leaders shouldn't praise him without reservation simply because he achieved the right social good?

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If a Christian leader said that immoral actions by MLK are "totally irrelevant", then they're wrong. Just like Jeffress. I'm not sure what you're mad about here. My position is consistent.

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If the claims are untrue you're getting huffy over Jeffres saying that something that didn't happen is irrelevant. That hardly seems worth the trouble of starting a thread. If the claims are true, then when Trump became a Christian (if he is one) is relevant. Are you capable of showing grace? Do you love trump as yourself? Because it seems like Jeffress is and perhaps does but you're taking him to task for it. How you feel about Jeffress reflects how you feel about trump, much as you try to deny it. He's a fence for you.

Again, no Christian leader open denounce MLK despite his infidelity and heresy. Should be easy for you to say that's wrong and that they all should, if this is your standard for leadership.

Solo Tetherball Champ said:

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For someone who doesn't even vote you do complain a lot about politics.

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Don't forget, he is also someone who doesn't judge.

Ag CPA said:

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I know more than one family that has left First Baptist this past year, just don't want to be associated with him anymore.

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That is encouraging.

Solo Tetherball Champ said:

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RetiredAg said:

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Solo Tetherball Champ said:

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For someone who doesn't even vote you do complain a lot about politics.

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I'm not complaining about politics. I'm complaining about someone who claims to be a minister of God damaging the witness of the church. He's simply doing it within the political realm.

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With regard to Trump here is a butchered analogy for you:

Love the Sinner; Hate the Sin is to Like *many* of his policies, loathe the man.

And I've long since realized that "damaging the witness of the church" is irrelevant. The same people who are turned off by evangelicals turning up their nose to vote for Trump would hardly come running to the church if they had voted in mass for Clinton, Sanders, Cruz, Paul, or any other.

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Ummm...evangelicals don't vote in mass.

94chem said:

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Solo Tetherball Champ said:

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RetiredAg said:

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Solo Tetherball Champ said:

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For someone who doesn't even vote you do complain a lot about politics.

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I'm not complaining about politics. I'm complaining about someone who claims to be a minister of God damaging the witness of the church. He's simply doing it within the political realm.

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With regard to Trump here is a butchered analogy for you:

Love the Sinner; Hate the Sin is to Like *many* of his policies, loathe the man.

And I've long since realized that "damaging the witness of the church" is irrelevant. The same people who are turned off by evangelicals turning up their nose to vote for Trump would hardly come running to the church if they had voted in mass for Clinton, Sanders, Cruz, Paul, or any other.

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Ummm...evangelicals don't vote in mass.

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The ones that get bussed into Mass do.

RetiredAg said:

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Ag CPA said:

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I know more than one family that has left First Baptist this past year, just don't want to be associated with him anymore.

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That is encouraging.

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I know five families who have joined in that time frame.

garc said:

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RetiredAg said:

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Ag CPA said:

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I know more than one family that has left First Baptist this past year, just don't want to be associated with him anymore.

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That is encouraging.

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I know five families who have joined in that time frame.

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Sort of like bumper stickers on a car. Helps identify the people to keep a wide berth from.