A Jew in 35AD

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PacifistAg
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AG
agie95 said:

RebelAG said:

Agie95,
No one can change your mind if you are determined to never let it be changed. So I can only say one of us is right and the other will be delivered into hell when they die. As a Christion, I pray that you will see the truth, so that you can join us in heaven someday. May God have mercy on your soul when that day comes to you.
lol. Either way, I am good. Either way, I trust in God. I believe Yeshua is the Messiah. I do what He says. I do what He did...follow Torah.

I am the Torah, Torah, and the Torah, the only way to the Father is through Me!
But you deny the divinity of Christ. Also, you don't get to just substitute the word "Torah" at your whim. That's not what the Greek text says.

Quote:

The Greek text didn't show up, but here's the link: http://biblehub.com/interlinear/john/14-6.htm

"way" -
"truth" -
"life" -
But, either way, I'm good. I trust that Jesus is the way, the truth, and the life, and that no man comes to the Father except through Him. I place my faith and trust in Him, and don't believe in a works-based salvation as some apparently do.
“Conquer men by your gentle kindness, and make zealous men wonder at your goodness. Put the lover of justice to shame by your compassion."
--St Isaac the Syrian
tford12
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RetiredAg said:


Quote:

Hopefully, someone is up for a real discussion.
The problem is that based on your past history, what you call "discussion", you actually mean you want to preach at people and accuse them of not loving God if they disagree with you. I get it, I've struggled with that kind of arrogance and abrasiveness before. It makes fruitful discussion virtually impossible, though.
First reply called it. Prophetic!
agie95
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AG
I don't see you defending your believes. Christianity is idolatry.
PacifistAg
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AG

Quote:

I am the Torah, Torah, and the Torah, the only way to the Father is through Me!
Why are you altering the Scriptures? You don't get to replace words w/ "Torah" at your whim. You accuse Christians of idolatry, yet you seem to hold an idolatrous view of the Torah, to the point that you will alter Scripture to inject the word where it isn't located.
“Conquer men by your gentle kindness, and make zealous men wonder at your goodness. Put the lover of justice to shame by your compassion."
--St Isaac the Syrian
agie95
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AG
You people claim to know God! You people claim to be followers of the Messiah! You don't even know His Word.
PacifistAg
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agie95 said:

You people claim to know God! You people claim to be followers of the Messiah! You don't even know His Word.
Don't know His word? You're the one altering it.
“Conquer men by your gentle kindness, and make zealous men wonder at your goodness. Put the lover of justice to shame by your compassion."
--St Isaac the Syrian
DirtDiver
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Quote:

Not one person can convince me to follow Christianity (what it is today) based on the Torah, Prophets or the Gospels?

I don't want you to follow "Christianity" as much as I would to know that you are trusting in Jesus alone for your salvation and that you are not trusting in your obediance to commandments.

PS
Hear my prayer, O Lord,
Give ear to my supplications!
Answer me in Your faithfulness, in Your righteousness!
2 And do not enter into judgment with Your servant,
For in Your sight no man living is righteous.

IS
All of us like sheep have gone astray,
Each of us has turned to his own way;
But the Lord has caused the iniquity of us all
To fall on Him.
7 He was oppressed and He was afflicted,
Yet He did not open His mouth;
Like a lamb that is led to slaughter,
And like a sheep that is silent before its shearers,
So He did not open His mouth.
8 By oppression and judgment He was taken away;
And as for His generation, who considered
That He was cut off out of the land of the living
For the transgression of my people, to whom the stroke was due?
9 His grave was assigned with wicked men,
Yet He was with a rich man in His death,
Because He had done no violence,
Nor was there any deceit in His mouth.
10 But the Lord was pleased
To crush Him, putting Him to grief;
If He would render Himself as a guilt offering,
He will see His offspring,
He will prolong His days,
And the good pleasure of the Lord will prosper in His hand.
11 As a result of the anguish of His soul,
He will see it and be satisfied;
By His knowledge the Righteous One,
My Servant, will justify the many,
As He will bear their iniquities.


PacifistAg
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agie95 said:

You people claim to know God! You people claim to be followers of the Messiah! You don't even know His Word.
Oh, and since when did you start fully spelling out "God"? I thought it was a matter of respecting the holiness of His name. Why did you stop?
“Conquer men by your gentle kindness, and make zealous men wonder at your goodness. Put the lover of justice to shame by your compassion."
--St Isaac the Syrian
agie95
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AG
I believe that Yeshua is the Messiah. If you don't follow the commandments, you don't really trust Him. You don't love Him.

One of the problems with Christianity is they accepted a Greek Jesus and booted God. By and large there is little to no reverence of God. They think Jesus changed everything, which He didn't. He solved the problem with our penalty. He provided a way humans could be fully reconciled with God. He didn't change anything that God had previously setup.


Think about it, Christians claim that Jesus is God. They claim that Jesus brought the Law of Christ and that the Torah shouldn't be followed anymore. What they believe then is that God changed. What God said was forever really wasn't forever. Christians follow what they think Jesus said to and don't follow what God said.

Christians believe the adage, do what I say, not what I do. For Yeshua followed the Torah and expects people who are in covenant with Him to follow the Torah.
PacifistAg
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Except you continue to ignore that Paul, a Pharisee, clearly didn't instruct Titus to get circumcised, which you say is still mandatory. Did Paul stop knowing God? Was he enabling sin?
“Conquer men by your gentle kindness, and make zealous men wonder at your goodness. Put the lover of justice to shame by your compassion."
--St Isaac the Syrian
DirtDiver
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Quote:

I believe that Yeshua is the Messiah. If you don't follow the commandments, you don't really trust Him. You don't love Him.

If you are trusting in your obediance to commandments vs trusting Jesus for salvation you don't really trust Him.

My obediance to a list of commandments has nothing to do with my salvation. In fact my inability to keep those commandments is the reason I have a need for Jesus and his forgiveness. Once that forgivenss is received I show Jesus that I love Him through prayer, worship, obediance, evangelism, time, humitly, etc. All of these are things that I struggle with at times and at times I do well. Some days my love for Jesus is clear, other days almost invisible, but my security in Him is never based on my faithfulness to Him but His faithfulness to keep His promises, the completeness of forgivness at the moment of faith, the gift of the securing Holy Spirit.
agie95
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Except you are not obedient. YOu don't even try. You don't try to eat kosher. You don't have a mezuzah on your door nor do you where tzitzit. You don't even try.
PacifistAg
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agie95 said:


Except you are not obedient. YOu don't even try. You don't try to eat kosher. You don't have a mezuzah on your door nor do you where tzitzit. You don't even try.
Well, Paul seemed to be under the impression that Titus didn't need to be circumcised. He clearly didn't press him to do it prior to the Judaizer incident. There's nothing to indicate he pressed him to do it afterwards. So, did Paul cease to know God? Did Paul lead Titus to sin?
“Conquer men by your gentle kindness, and make zealous men wonder at your goodness. Put the lover of justice to shame by your compassion."
--St Isaac the Syrian
dermdoc
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agie95 said:


Except you are not obedient. YOu don't even try. You don't try to eat kosher. You don't have a mezuzah on your door nor do you where tzitzit. You don't even try.


And everyone tries and falls short. If you fall short by a little, you can not make it on your own. That is why the need for Jesus.

Edited to add that "trying" does not count. You have to be perfect and nobody can be. Except Jesus.
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swimmerbabe11
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What is a mezuzah? Why do you need one on your door? Does it sound like a kazoo?
powerbelly
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swimmerbabe11 said:

What is a mezuzah? Why do you need one on your door? Does it sound like a kazoo?
A mezuzah comprises a piece of parchment called a klaf contained in a decorative case and inscribed with specific Hebrew verses from the Torah (Deuteronomy 6:4-9 and 11:13-21)
agie95
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It is what powerbelly said and comes from the commandment:

and write them on the doorposts of your house and on your gates. Deut 6:9

You are to write them on the doorposts of your house and on your gates, Deut 11:20

They are a reminder of the commandments. When you see it, you remember God and His commandments.
titan
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S
agie95,

Pardon,


Quote:


You can't use Paul b/c he wasn't even a "believer" at this time. It would be another approx 15 years before Paul starts his ministry and 20+ years before Paul writes a letter. This doesn't mean you can't use his points, but you have to some how connect his points with what was written in the Torah and the Prophets. Everything Paul said was checked in the written Scripture at that time by the Bereans. If a point of Paul is brought up, but no connection with the Scriptures in existence at the time, I will ignore.
Where on Earth are you getting that from? I won't intrude on this thread beyond that query for now. I noticed this when came to see if the Pope thread deleted from Politics was here. Just intensely curious where you are getting a chronology like that from. Are you disregarding the internal clues of ACTS?

Example: Say Christ was put to death in 33. Only exactly ten years later, give or take a year, you have the death of Herod Agrippa (43/44). The ministry of some of the apostles are well under way by then. We have certain clear markers. Another is Claudius's edicts.

agie95
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AG


Where am I getting my timeline from?

Stephen stoned - 32AD
Travel to Damascas - 34AD
Travels to Arabai - Galatians 1:17 - 35AD
Goes to Jerusalem - Acts 9:26-29; Gal 1:18 - 37AD
Goes back to Tarsus - Acts 9:30 - 38AD
Barnabas travels to Tarsus to seek Saul - Acts 11:25 - 46AD
Saul starts his ministry


In 33AD, Paul wasn't around and definitely had not written anything.

titan
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agie95 said:



Where am I getting my timeline from?

Stephen stoned - 32AD
Travel to Damascas - 34AD
Travels to Arabai - Galatians 1:17 - 35AD
Goes to Jerusalem - Acts 9:26-29; Gal 1:18 - 37AD
Goes back to Tarsus - Acts 9:30 - 38AD
Barnabas travels to Tarsus to seek Saul - Acts 11:25 - 46AD
Saul starts his ministry


In 33AD, Paul wasn't around and definitely had not written anything.


Thanks.

Just for reference, which Crucifixion year are you going from? (29-33) Your time for Damascus seems about right though. It is the gap before starting ministry that puzzled. At least how it appeared. Galatians he is witnessing by then.
agie95
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Quote:

Galatians he is witnessing by then.

Yeshua's death/resurrection was around 30AD. If you move that then you move all the dates for Paul whose ministry starts in 46-47AD.

FriscoKid
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agie95 said:

Not one person can convince me to follow Christianity (what it is today) based on the Torah, Prophets or the Gospels?


John 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
Jesus was the Word. The same Word that was the prophets.

And, if you were a Jew then you probably would have known about that dude named Isiah that told of his coming.
FriscoKid
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And the apostles started preaching immediately after the death and resurrection. They used what the prophets had said to show that Jesus was who he said he was. Combined with the word of mouth testimony from people that saw the miracles , I think a Jew in 35AD should be convinced that the messiah had finally come.
FriscoKid
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AG
Also Acts 10. Peter kind of squashed the whole clean vs unclean thing.

Quote:

9 "We are witnesses of everything he did in the country of the Jews and in Jerusalem. They killed him by hanging him on a cross, 40 but God raised him from the dead on the third day and caused him to be seen. 41 He was not seen by all the people, but by witnesses whom God had already chosenby us who ate and drank with him after he rose from the dead. 42 He commanded us to preach to the people and to testify that he is the one whom God appointed as judge of the living and the dead. 43 All the prophets testify about him that everyone who believes in him receives forgiveness of sins through his name."

44 While Peter was still speaking these words, the Holy Spirit came on all who heard the message. 45 The circumcised believers who had come with Peter were astonished that the gift of the Holy Spirit had been poured out even on Gentiles.
titan
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agie95 said:

Quote:

Galatians he is witnessing by then.

Yeshua's death/resurrection was around 30AD. If you move that then you move all the dates for Paul whose ministry starts in 46-47AD.


No, that is fine. April 6, 30 AD. I just wanted to know which one you use. It makes it less confusing because can shift the downstream dates accordingly in some cases. I lean somewhat toward April 3, 33 AD but it is only that, a preference.
The Debt
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If you read Acts you will learn many of the early converts were Pharisees.

Most people don't know this, but the Pharisees were open to God's miracles. The Sadducees were the ultraorthodox that rejected the miracles performed by Jesus. It's kinda funny that when Jesus heals, it's the religious order that looks for miracles that finds fault. "Hey bud its Saturday."


Acts:23:6
: "But when Paul perceived that the one part were Sadducees, and the other Pharisees, he cried out in the council, Men and brethren, I am a Pharisee, the son of a Pharisee: of the hope and resurrection of the dead I am called in question."
 
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