Many of you proclaim that what I bring forth from the Bible isn't true. Well here is your chance...
Let's suppose this is approx. 35AD and I am a Jew, who through Kefa's speech in Acts, accepted Yeshua as the Messiah.
At that time, the only Bible that existed was the Torah and the Prophets. There would also have been the oral tradition as well as the words of the Messiah.
You can't use Paul b/c he wasn't even a "believer" at this time. It would be another approx 15 years before Paul starts his ministry and 20+ years before Paul writes a letter. This doesn't mean you can't use his points, but you have to some how connect his points with what was written in the Torah and the Prophets. Everything Paul said was checked in the written Scripture at that time by the Bereans. If a point of Paul is brought up, but no connection with the Scriptures in existence at the time, I will ignore.
Using what the Messiah had to show them all about Him, convince me that Christianity was/is THE Faith. Convince me only the so-called moral commandments are supposed to be kept. Convince me that when God said that His commandments were forever that He really didn't mean forever. Convert me to Christianity. I am not needing to be convinced that Yeshua is the Messiah, but that what Christianity is today is the true path.
I will reply to any legitimate points made. If I suspect the reply is not within the true intention of this thread, I will just ignore. I am not necessarily wanting to discuss the meaning specific verses as we typically do, but wanting to look at God's plan from the viewpoint of the forest.
Upfront, I will even give you my main go to verses of why Judaism I won't stray from Judaism as a Jew in 35AD. So, in your convincing, you will have to overcome the passages below. This is not to say I won't use others though.
Hopefully, someone is up for a real discussion.
Deuteronomy 12:32-13:4 (in your Bible) - "Whatever I command you, you must take care to doyou are not to add to it or take away from it. 2 "Suppose a prophet or a dreamer of dreams rises up among you and gives you a sign or wonder, 3 and the sign or wonder he spoke to you comes true, while saying, 'Let's follow other gods'that you have not known, and'Let's serve them!' 4 You must not listen to the words of that prophet or that dreamer of dreamsfor Adonai your God is testing you, to find out whether you love Adonai your God with all your heart and with all your soul. 5 Adonai your God you will follow and Him you will fear. His mitzvot you will keep, to His voice you will listen, Him you will serve and to Him you will cling.
You have to know from a Jewish viewpoint, that loving and serving God is following the commandments. Every time that loving God is mentioned in the Torah, it says to follow the commandments. Just like 2 John 1:6 says. As a Jew, I see salvation as trusting God thereby following His ways.
Ezekiel 36:26-28 - Moreover I will give you a new heart. I will put a new spirit within you. I will remove the stony heart from your flesh and give you a heart of flesh. 27 I will put My Ruach within you. Then I will cause you to walk in My laws, so you will keep My rulings and do them. 28 Then you will live in the land that I gave to your fathers. You will be My people and I will be your God.
The role of the Holy Spirit - Ruach HaKodesh.
Jeremiah 31:30,32-33 "Behold, days are coming"it is a declaration of Adonai"when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah"But this is the covenant I will make with the house of Israel after those days"it is a declaration of Adonai"I will put My Torah within them.
Yes, I will write it on their heart. I will be their God and they will be My people. 33 No longer will each teach his neighbor or each his brother, saying: 'Know Adonai,' for they will all know Me, from the least of them to the greatest." it is a declaration of Adonai. "For I will forgive their iniquity, their sin I will remember no more."
I will mainly use this passage to dispel the notion that the Torah is not part of this covenant.
Jeremiah 31:34-36 - Thus says Adonai, who gives the sun as a light by day and the fixed order of the moon
and the stars as a light by night, who stirs up the sea so its waves roar, Adonai-Tzva'ot is His Name:
35 "Only if this fixed order departs from before Me"it is a declaration of Adonai"then also might Israel's offspring cease from being a nation before Mefor all time." 36 Thus says Adonai:"Only if heaven above can be measured and the foundations of the earth searched out beneath, then also I will cast off the offspring of Israelfor all they have done." It is a declaration of Adonai.
I will use this passage to dispel supersessionism/replacement theology.
Matthew 5:17-19 - "Do not think that I came to abolish the Torah or the Prophets! I did not come to abolish, but to fulfill. 18 Amen, I tell you, until heaven and earth pass away, not the smallest letter or serif shall ever pass away from the Torah until all things come to pass. 19 Therefore, whoever breaks one of the least of these commandments, and teaches others the same, shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven. But whoever keeps and teaches them, this one shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.
I will use this to show that Messiah did not teach to do away with some of the commandments. Until heaven and earth pass away not the smallest letter or serif shall pass away. I will also use the Messiah's use of the Shema.
Let's suppose this is approx. 35AD and I am a Jew, who through Kefa's speech in Acts, accepted Yeshua as the Messiah.
At that time, the only Bible that existed was the Torah and the Prophets. There would also have been the oral tradition as well as the words of the Messiah.
You can't use Paul b/c he wasn't even a "believer" at this time. It would be another approx 15 years before Paul starts his ministry and 20+ years before Paul writes a letter. This doesn't mean you can't use his points, but you have to some how connect his points with what was written in the Torah and the Prophets. Everything Paul said was checked in the written Scripture at that time by the Bereans. If a point of Paul is brought up, but no connection with the Scriptures in existence at the time, I will ignore.
Using what the Messiah had to show them all about Him, convince me that Christianity was/is THE Faith. Convince me only the so-called moral commandments are supposed to be kept. Convince me that when God said that His commandments were forever that He really didn't mean forever. Convert me to Christianity. I am not needing to be convinced that Yeshua is the Messiah, but that what Christianity is today is the true path.
I will reply to any legitimate points made. If I suspect the reply is not within the true intention of this thread, I will just ignore. I am not necessarily wanting to discuss the meaning specific verses as we typically do, but wanting to look at God's plan from the viewpoint of the forest.
Upfront, I will even give you my main go to verses of why Judaism I won't stray from Judaism as a Jew in 35AD. So, in your convincing, you will have to overcome the passages below. This is not to say I won't use others though.
Hopefully, someone is up for a real discussion.
Deuteronomy 12:32-13:4 (in your Bible) - "Whatever I command you, you must take care to doyou are not to add to it or take away from it. 2 "Suppose a prophet or a dreamer of dreams rises up among you and gives you a sign or wonder, 3 and the sign or wonder he spoke to you comes true, while saying, 'Let's follow other gods'that you have not known, and'Let's serve them!' 4 You must not listen to the words of that prophet or that dreamer of dreamsfor Adonai your God is testing you, to find out whether you love Adonai your God with all your heart and with all your soul. 5 Adonai your God you will follow and Him you will fear. His mitzvot you will keep, to His voice you will listen, Him you will serve and to Him you will cling.
You have to know from a Jewish viewpoint, that loving and serving God is following the commandments. Every time that loving God is mentioned in the Torah, it says to follow the commandments. Just like 2 John 1:6 says. As a Jew, I see salvation as trusting God thereby following His ways.
Ezekiel 36:26-28 - Moreover I will give you a new heart. I will put a new spirit within you. I will remove the stony heart from your flesh and give you a heart of flesh. 27 I will put My Ruach within you. Then I will cause you to walk in My laws, so you will keep My rulings and do them. 28 Then you will live in the land that I gave to your fathers. You will be My people and I will be your God.
The role of the Holy Spirit - Ruach HaKodesh.
Jeremiah 31:30,32-33 "Behold, days are coming"it is a declaration of Adonai"when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah"But this is the covenant I will make with the house of Israel after those days"it is a declaration of Adonai"I will put My Torah within them.
Yes, I will write it on their heart. I will be their God and they will be My people. 33 No longer will each teach his neighbor or each his brother, saying: 'Know Adonai,' for they will all know Me, from the least of them to the greatest." it is a declaration of Adonai. "For I will forgive their iniquity, their sin I will remember no more."
I will mainly use this passage to dispel the notion that the Torah is not part of this covenant.
Jeremiah 31:34-36 - Thus says Adonai, who gives the sun as a light by day and the fixed order of the moon
and the stars as a light by night, who stirs up the sea so its waves roar, Adonai-Tzva'ot is His Name:
35 "Only if this fixed order departs from before Me"it is a declaration of Adonai"then also might Israel's offspring cease from being a nation before Mefor all time." 36 Thus says Adonai:"Only if heaven above can be measured and the foundations of the earth searched out beneath, then also I will cast off the offspring of Israelfor all they have done." It is a declaration of Adonai.
I will use this passage to dispel supersessionism/replacement theology.
Matthew 5:17-19 - "Do not think that I came to abolish the Torah or the Prophets! I did not come to abolish, but to fulfill. 18 Amen, I tell you, until heaven and earth pass away, not the smallest letter or serif shall ever pass away from the Torah until all things come to pass. 19 Therefore, whoever breaks one of the least of these commandments, and teaches others the same, shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven. But whoever keeps and teaches them, this one shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.
I will use this to show that Messiah did not teach to do away with some of the commandments. Until heaven and earth pass away not the smallest letter or serif shall pass away. I will also use the Messiah's use of the Shema.