Agie95,

Finally had some time to skim through your Catechism (summary of your beliefs), thanks for providing them to us many months ago. Halacha and Observances for Sar Shalom Synagogue Halacha and Observations

What strikes me, is your beliefs seem to totally ignore Jesus (you cover Messiah ever so slightly) even though you accept the Gospels. From Christian perspective- Jesus is the climax of our faith! God is with us- Emmanuel. God Saves Us= Jesus. I am the way the truth and life! Jesus is the Word! Jesus at the Transfiguration greater than Moses and Elijah. Also nothing on Baptism, Eucharist/ Last Supper- Do this in remembrance of me!

Questions:
1) Can you provide more details on who you think Jesus is? And what if anything new we should do with Jesus.
2) What about Eucharist and Baptism? Do you follow- why or why not?
3) Authority- Why should we listen to you? I know I keep asking this question over and over. Still looking for an answer. How are you different from the other 30K protestant denominations including Mormons and Jehoviah Witnesses? Why are you correct?
4) What was the compelling event that led you from Baptist to what you are today- Sar Shalom Synagogue? Was it someone you met? Was it God speaking to you? Was it a bible passage you read?

Example- many turn to the Catholic faith when they read the early church fathers and realize, the early church was Catholic (Orthodox).

Excerpts from your belief document: I. Scripture We hold the Torah, in the original Hebrew form, to be the Word of G-d absolutely unique, incontrovertible, and infallible given directly by G-d to all mankind through the hand of Moshe. We hold the Hebrew Nevi'im (Prophets) and Ketuvim (Writings) and Besorot (Gospels) as equally Holy and infallible.

If the Gospels are infallible, how do you miss Jesus? Why do you not do this?

Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, Matt 28:19

And he took bread, gave thanks and broke it, and gave it to them, saying, "This is my body given for you; do this in remembrance of me." Luke 22:19

1a. Yeshua is a manifestation of God. Just like the burning bush, the "angel" who visited Avraham, the Rock in the wilderness, etc. These are all manifestations. He is divine, but He is not a deity. He was without sin until He bore them at His death. He was resurrected. We are given the picture of Yeshua and how He relates to God with Pharaoh and Joseph. Pharaoh basically became a father to Joseph. Pharaoh set Him up in charge of his entire kingdom. When you saw Joseph it was as if you saw Pharaoh. When Joseph issued a decree it was as if Pharaoh issued the decree. He is the second Adam.

1b. Anything new? Yes, people should follow the ways of God with all their heart, soul, and strength.
There is not one prophecy about the Messiah that says everything or anything, for that matter, is going to change in regards to our day to day living. We should do nothing different from what God intended from the get go. We should trust God and follow His ways for they are our life. Even in the Millennial Kingdom the Torah is going to be followed. Sacrifices will be done, Shabbat will be followed, the festivals will still go on.

So what changed with the Messiah? Our penalties were paid in full. Therefore, you should be born again and live according to the Spirit and not the flesh. You should follow God's ways. This is what Romans 7-8 is all about. It is explaining in more detail Ezekiel 11:19-20 and 36:26-27. The Spirit is to cause you to follow the commandments.

2a. Obviously, we don't agree with the eucharist. It was not intended for church's to offer a small cracker and a thimble of grape juice each week, month, or whatever time period each congregation chooses to do so. The event was not the Passover either as many suppose. If one looks at what was done, as was the case prior to the "last supper", was to join together (be in unity) and fellowship together. If you have ever witnessed and Shabbat meal, you saw how families and friends broke the bread together. Also, wine is normally drank as well. Yeshua was telling them, when you do these things think of Him. Remember. Throughout the Torah we are told to remember. There are commandments to help us remember...mezuzah scroll, tefillin (Phlacteries), and tzitzit.

2b. Baptism. Baptism wasn't something new. In Hebrew it is called a mikvah. When Yeshua was mikvah'ed it wasn't His first time. People go through the mikvah waters (living water - not a large tub) many times throughout their lives. Absolutely, we go through the mikvah at conversion and other times throughout the year.

3. Don't listen to me. I am nobody. Listen to the Bible. As one poster pointed out, I probably quote the most Scripture on this forum. When you look back in history and see the events around the 1st through 3rd centuries it is very easy to see how the church got where it is today. Anything associated with Judaism became illegal. Observing the Shabbat on its proper day became illegal. So what is a Jew to do? Follow what God always had said to do or follow the Romans and denounce God's holy Torah? For them it was an easy decision. So after many Jews have died or left the people who stopped following Torah, it was those from pagan backgrounds who took over. This led to what the church is today.

Think about this and your understanding of accepting the Messiah. Where in the Torah, the Prophets or the Writings does it ever say that one has to believe in the Messiah to have salvation?

The whole church is built on this one premise about the Messiah and yet the supposed foundation (what you call the OT) of Christianity NEVER speaks of it.

4. What led me to Sar Shalom? On my honeymoon (1997), there was a book in the cabin we stayed in. It was about end times. I hadn't really ever thought about this topic previously. I read and was fascinated by the topic. I started reading everything I could get my hands on about the topic. Over time I developed my position on the topic. I would debate others about this topic just as I do today with Torah. Over time, as I read and studied verses about the end times, I started developing questions. Why is it that Malachi warns those in the end times to remember the law of Moses? Why is it that in Matthew 24, the disciples (believers) are told pray that it doesn't happen on the Sabbath? If the Messiah fulfilled the spring festivals, what about the fall festivals? Then other questions started popping up, like what are the commandments that Yeshua speaks about? In Christianity there is not indication. There are many thoughts, but there are holes in each of those thoughts. Their is little unity among the church....even within a church sometimes. I had a couple conversations with my pastor. We moved and started another church where I had many conversations with this guy who had like 5 seminary degrees. He couldn't truly answer my concerns. Everytime he couldn't come back with an answer to dispel what I was saying he said we are at liberty. I kept asking where does it say this. He never could. One day, he told me (nicely) maybe you should find people who believe as you do. So here I am today.

Your next post, I will have to answer in a little bit or maybe tomorrow.

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If the Gospels are infallible, how do you miss Jesus? Why do you not do this?

Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, Matt 28:19

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Let me presume to respond for agie95 on this:

Certainly by now you understand we call Jesus by His more proper Hebrew name of Yeshua. And "Yeshua", His Name, is use about twice on every other page of his document, so in what sense are you claiming he "missed" Jesus (Yeshua)?

Also, the exact quote of Matt 28:19 is written in full as the very first of his Four Goals listed on the top of page 8, so how is it you say he does not do this?

Now, I have a few questions of my own.

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I.A We hold subsequent Jewish writings (i.e. Talmud) and by the original Jewish disciples of Yeshua HaMoshiach (i.e the apostolic writings and final book of prophecy) to be inspired and instructive on all matters of faith and practice. (Deut. 6:4-9; Prov. 3:1-6; Ps. 119:89, 105; Isa. 48:12-16">.

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I noticed you recommended the Stone Edition of Tanach and the Jewish New Testament (by Stern), but no list for an English translation of the Talmud? If you consider the Talmud to be equally inspired with the Torah and the Apostolic Scriptures, why would you not feel it equally important to provide a preferred English translation of the Talmud?

Also, and more importantly, the writers of the Talmud reject anything relating to Yeshua. Why would you consider the teachings of those who reject Yeshua to be "inspired" equally with the Apostolic writings of those who put the faith of their life (and death) in Yeshau?

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1a. Yeshua is a manifestation of God. Just like the burning bush, the "angel" who visited Avraham, the Rock in the wilderness, etc. These are all manifestations. He is divine, but He is not a deity.

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How do you reconcile this with Acts 2:36? (CJB)

"Therefore, let the whole house of Isra'el know beyond doubt that God has made him both Lord and Messiah this Yeshua, whom you executed on a stake!"

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The event was not the Passover either as many suppose.

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How do you reconcile this with Luke 22:15?

"and he said to them, "I have really wanted so much to celebrate this Seder with you before I die!"

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Beit Din meeting with Rabbi and Zakenim.

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How do you reconcile calling each other "Rabbi" with Matthew 23:8?

"But you are not to let yourselves be called 'Rabbi'; because you have one Rabbi, and you are all each other's brothers"

Shalom

booboo91 said:

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Excerpts from your belief document: I. Scripture We hold the Torah, in the original Hebrew form, to be the Word of G-d absolutely unique, incontrovertible, and infallible given directly by G-d to all mankind through the hand of Moshe. We hold the Hebrew Nevi'im (Prophets) and Ketuvim (Writings) and Besorot (Gospels) as equally Holy and infallible.

If the Gospels are infallible, how do you miss Jesus? Why do you not do this?

Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, Matt 28:19

And he took bread, gave thanks and broke it, and gave it to them, saying, "This is my body given for you; do this in remembrance of me." Luke 22:19

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Win for life pretty much summed it up.

We don't miss Him. He is all over the website. His death and resurrection paid the consequence of our sins. Therefore, we do what He did. We do what He said to do.

Matthew 28:19. What is interesting is rarely does anyone quote the next verse.

19 Go therefore and make disciples of all nations, immersing them in the name of the Father and the Son and the Ruach ha-Kodesh, 20 teaching them to observe all I have commanded you. And remember! I am with you always, even to the end of the age."

Let's assume for the moment we are in unity to how and who we Yeshua as. I think we both agree that Yeshua is from God. God gave the Torah. Yeshua at the very least is a messenger/prophet from God (I know He is more than that, but creating a baseline here). In the prophets, prophet after prophet spoke about returning to God and following His ways. Yeshua says the same thing. He says to repent from sins, which I have proven the definition of sins has not change. He said the Torah wasn't passing away. He said that those who do it and teach to do it are great. He said if you love me you will follow My commandments.

Christians come along and say that this messenger/prophet from God gives a different message. The Torah is done away with. Ok. Let's take a look at that. Every other prophet has said do this and now another says to do something differently, despite the fact Yeshua actually said the same things as the other prophets. Then, you have Deuteronomy 13, which states if someone comes performing miracles but tells you to serve gods of others and not follow God ways this is a test to see if you love God. Loving God is following His commandments, which the Bible makes explicitly clear.

As Win for life says, in our mission statement we state making disciples. I am not sure most people really knows what that means in the 1st century. A disciple, in that day, went everywhere with their teacher. They listened intently to every word. After some time, they could quote their teacher word for word. They thought, spoke, and did just like their teacher.

Yeshua's disciples thought, spoke, and did just like their teacher. Yeshua followed the Torah. He was without sin correct? His disciples therefore, would have followed the Torah and it was expected of them to teach Torah to their disciples.

If you are taking Luke 22:19 and turning it into the eucharist this is just more false teaching from men. I already explained it above. You should look up the afikomen In the Pesach Seder.

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I noticed you recommended the Stone Edition of Tanach and the Jewish New Testament (by Stern), but no list for an English translation of the Talmud? If you consider the Talmud to be equally inspired with the Torah and the Apostolic Scriptures, why would you not feel it equally important to provide a preferred English translation of the Talmud?

Also, and more importantly, the writers of the Talmud reject anything relating to Yeshua. Why would you consider the teachings of those who reject Yeshua to be "inspired" equally with the Apostolic writings of those who put the faith of their life (and death) in Yeshau?

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As you quoted above, we hold the Talmud to be equal to the apostolic writings (epistles and Acts) and Revelation. Where do we say we hold it equal to Torah? We prefer to use the TLV version over Stern's, which is listed first.

Regarding the preferred translation of the Talmud, we don't have a preference. There are basically 2 major ones that exist or printed today. For the most part we use the Artscroll Talmud, which is 73 volumes. It contains the Hebrew, Aramaic, and the English, which is why it is so many volumes.

Regarding something to be inspired from whom they deny Yeshua, you have to remember that why the Talmud was written down after Yeshua, a majority of it was orally taught before Yeshua. What is interesting is when you read it or the Midrash Rabbah, there is so much about the Mashiach that they miss. Their own writings show Yeshua as the Messiah, but unfortunately many Jews can't see it....yet.

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How do you reconcile this with Acts 2:36? (CJB)

"Therefore, let the whole house of Isra'el know beyond doubt that God has made him both Lord and Messiah this Yeshua, whom you executed on a stake!"

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The lens one looks through makes all the different. We must start from Torah. If one starts with their western, Greek mindset, then yes it is difficult to reconcile, bc, you have grown up with one perspective. Unfortunately, this perspective was not the perspective during Biblical times. The word for Lord in this verse is kyrios, which has several meanings:

[ol]

he to whom a person or thing belongs, about which he has power of deciding; master, lord
[ol]

the possessor and disposer of a thing
[ol]

the owner; one who has control of the person, the master

in the state: the sovereign, prince, chief, the Roman emperor

[/ol]

is a title of honour expressive of respect and reverence, with which servants greet their master

this title is given to: God, the Messiah

[/ol][/ol]
Obviously, the last definition is from Christianity, but we shouldn't look through that lense. When you look at all the other definitions the word means one who is in control. With that I have no dispute.

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The event was not the Passover either as many suppose.

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How do you reconcile this with Luke 22:15?

"and he said to them, "I have really wanted so much to celebrate this Seder with you before I die!"

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How can they properly be having a Pesach seder when He was hanging on the execution stake for Pesach?

Was He hung on Pesach or not? If so, then this couldn't be a proper Pesach Seder. Now, if you presume this was a year earlier then it is possible, but I don't know of anyone that has that claim.

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Beit Din meeting with Rabbi and Zakenim.

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How do you reconcile calling each other "Rabbi" with Matthew 23:8?

"But you are not to let yourselves be called 'Rabbi'; because you have one Rabbi, and you are all each other's brothers"

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Maybe there is a misunderstanding. For certainly you call your male parent your father (v9). Certainly, you call your teacher's teacher (v10) (some translations say leader). So what is the context of the passage? The passage is about being humble and not seeking honor. Read from v1 and you see this.

Also, there are two definitions of this word. There is the word rabbi in how we use it today and there is another one meaning master. For instance, they call John the Baptist, this very word in John 3:26.

In most translations v23:8 translates one Rabbi as one master showing that the definition is more in line with don't call anyone your master.

The word used for father is all throughout the Gospels and Epistles.

You can't believe the Talmud and the New Testament.

The New Testament is clear that the ONLY way to the Father is through Jesus.

The Talmud rejects Jesus.

Do you believe in the Resurrection? That is really the fundamental principle in all Christianity.

So God changed the way to salvation? God changes. God said, oh this trusting in Me and then follow My ways doesn't work so forget all that and just believe in Jesus.

Is this what you think?

Have you ever actually read from a page in the Talmud or are you believing in internet lore? I have yet to see one place where the Talmud speaks of Yeshua HaMashiach.

God has always CHOSEN who is saved.

From the Old Testament to the New Testament.

The sacrifice changed.

What Talmud are you reading....?

You didn't answer my question.

Which Talmud? Babylonian.

agie95 said:

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He is divine, but He is not a deity. He was without sin until He bore them at His death.

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Care to elaborate? What do you mean He is not a deity? Is He not Lord?

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He was resurrected. We are given the picture of Yeshua and how He relates to God with Pharaoh and Joseph. Pharaoh basically became a father to Joseph. Pharaoh set Him up in charge of his entire kingdom. When you saw Joseph it was as if you saw Pharaoh. When Joseph issued a decree it was as if Pharaoh issued the decree. He is the second Adam.

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I beg to differ.

Pharaoh wasn't even circumcised! Pharaoh wasn't set apart as one of God's people. Joseph was an alien in the land of Egypt along with all the Israelites present at the time. I cannot understand how you would come up with the correlation of Pharaoh and Joseph.

I believe in a better correlation:

John 14

10 Don't you believe that I am in the Father, and that the Father is in me? The words I say to you I do not speak on my own authority. Rather, it is the Father, living in me, who is doing his work. 11 Believe me when I say that I am in the Father and the Father is in me; or at least believe on the evidence of the works themselves. 12 Very truly I tell you, whoever believes in me will do the works I have been doing, and they will do even greater things than these, because I am going to the Father. 13 And I will do whatever you ask in my name, so that the Father may be glorified in the Son. 14 You may ask me for anything in my name, and I will do it.


Furthermore, Jesus is the second Adam, not Joseph

1 Corinthians 15:44-49 New International Version (NIV)

44 it is sown a natural body, it is raised a spiritual body.
If there is a natural body, there is also a spiritual body. 45 So it is written: "The first man Adam became a living being"; the last Adam, a life-giving spirit. 46 The spiritual did not come first, but the natural, and after that the spiritual. 47 The first man was of the dust of the earth; the second man is of heaven. 48 As was the earthly man, so are those who are of the earth; and as is the heavenly man, so also are those who are of heaven. 49 And just as we have borne the image of the earthly man, so shall we bear the image of the heavenly man.

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2a. Obviously, we don't agree with the eucharist. It was not intended for church's to offer a small cracker and a thimble of grape juice each week, month, or whatever time period each congregation chooses to do so.

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How should the Eucharist be done in your opinion?

IMO, the Eucharist is more of a symbolism deal. (It's not going to be exactly similar to the way it was done in new testament times) It's not for one to get full off of. If the churches don't have it, how exactly will it be remembered?

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3. Don't listen to me. I am nobody. Listen to the Bible

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+1

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Think about this and your understanding of accepting the Messiah. Where in the Torah, the Prophets or the Writings does it ever say that one has to believe in the Messiah to have salvation?

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John 14

6 Jesus answered, "I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me. 7 If you really know me, you will know my Father as well. From now on, you do know him and have seen him."

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The whole church is built on this one premise about the Messiah and yet the supposed foundation (what you call the OT) of Christianity NEVER speaks of it.

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I'm not sure why you would be against the church being centered around the Messiah. He's the cornerstone! Why on earth would anyone be against glorifying the Son in any way shape or form?

It seems as if you accept certain things about Jesus, and then reject certain things about Him.

The Lord sent to His people, prophet after prophet, yet they rejected them. Finally, He sent His Son and they rejected Him as well. Jesus talks about this in the parable of Tenants.

Mark 12 New International Version (NIV)
The Parable of the Tenants
12 Jesus then began to speak to them in parables: "A man planted a vineyard. He put a wall around it, dug a pit for the winepress and built a watchtower. Then he rented the vineyard to some farmers and moved to another place. 2 At harvest time he sent a servant to the tenants to collect from them some of the fruit of the vineyard. 3 But they seized him, beat him and sent him away empty-handed. 4 Then he sent another servant to them; they struck this man on the head and treated him shamefully. 5 He sent still another, and that one they killed. He sent many others; some of them they beat, others they killed.
6 "He had one left to send, a son, whom he loved. He sent him last of all, saying, 'They will respect my son.'
7 "But the tenants said to one another, 'This is the heir. Come, let's kill him, and the inheritance will be ours.' 8 So they took him and killed him, and threw him out of the vineyard.
9 "What then will the owner of the vineyard do? He will come and kill those tenants and give the vineyard to others.10 Haven't you read this passage of Scripture:
"'The stone the builders rejected
has become the cornerstone;
11 the Lord has done this,
and it is marvelous in our eyes'?"


Jesus predicted there would be some to reject Him in His sermon on the mount: (Matthew 5)

11 "Blessed are you when people insult you, persecute you and falsely say all kinds of evil against you because of me. 12 R for in the same way they persecuted the prophets who were before you. rejoice and be glad because great is your reward in heaven,


There are those who are stiff-necked and stubborn, and there are those who rely on faith in Him (who do their best to be obedient to Him.)

This isn't a debate dude. You can have your Jesus. I don't want anything to with him.

Note: Yeshua is not Jesus.

RetiredAg said:

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agie95 said:

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This isn't a debate dude. You can have your Jesus. I don't want anything to with him.

Note: Yeshua is not Jesus.

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He was directly addressing point you made. It's called a discussion board. Responses like this support something I've noticed in that you seem more interested in preaching at people and insulting them than discussing things with them. I may be wrong, but it's certainly the perception I have. I get if the post was argumentative and you're not wanting to argue, but he seemed to respectfully address points you made. I get if you've discussed those specific points over and over again. But I don't see anything that he posted that would be a conversation stopper. Am I missing something?

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Someone is asking my belief in things and that someone was not this poster. This poster wants to now tell me my belief is wrong. That was not the intention of the post. So get off your high horse.

You are missing a lot actually.

agie95 said:

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RetiredAg said:

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agie95 said:

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This isn't a debate dude. You can have your Jesus. I don't want anything to with him.

Note: Yeshua is not Jesus.

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He was directly addressing point you made. It's called a discussion board. Responses like this support something I've noticed in that you seem more interested in preaching at people and insulting them than discussing things with them. I may be wrong, but it's certainly the perception I have. I get if the post was argumentative and you're not wanting to argue, but he seemed to respectfully address points you made. I get if you've discussed those specific points over and over again. But I don't see anything that he posted that would be a conversation stopper. Am I missing something?

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Someone is asking my belief in things and that someone was not this poster. This poster wants to now tell me my belief is wrong. That was not the intention of the post. So get off your high horse.

You are missing a lot actually.

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Not a high horse. It's a discussion board. Discussions happen here. And, you routinely tell people here their beliefs are wrong. Just relax. We aren't your enemy.

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Someone is asking my belief in things and that someone was not this poster. This poster wants to now tell me my belief is wrong. That was not the intention of the post. So get off your high horse.

You are missing a lot actually.

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True, but neither were Win At Life and Doc, yet you responded to them. Why, then, is responding to dds out of bounds?

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AG

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This isn't a debate dude. You can have your Jesus. I don't want anything to with him.

Note: Yeshua is not Jesus.


A
And there it is.

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You are misunderstanding agie95, but he's not helping with the way he's talking. Besides the Greco/Latin/English changes to Mashiach's name, partly deliberately to make His sound less Jewish, leaders of the Western church merged worship of the Mashiach with pagan influences and twisted His teachings into one who was a breaker of the Torah. It's that VERSION of the Mashiach agie95 wants no part of. And on that point, I also agree with him.

Which is actually a good Segway into responding to the following comment:

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He was resurrected. We are given the picture of Yeshua and how He relates to God with Pharaoh and Joseph. Pharaoh basically became a father to Joseph. Pharaoh set Him up in charge of his entire kingdom. When you saw Joseph it was as if you saw Pharaoh. When Joseph issued a decree it was as if Pharaoh issued the decree. He is the second Adam.



I beg to differ.

Pharaoh wasn't even circumcised! Pharaoh wasn't set apart as one of God's people. Joseph was an alien in the land of Egypt along with all the Israelites present at the time. I cannot understand how you would come up with the correlation of Pharaoh and Joseph.

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You are taking the comparison too literally. However, Joseph (among others) "predicts" Yeshua the Mashiach. Joseph was betrayed by those closest to Him, thrown into the pit of a prison by false accusations and then, by the power of God, raised up and had all Pharaoh's kingdom and power turned over to Him. This is prophetic of Yeshua, who was also betrayed by those closest to Him, thrown in to prison by false accusation, put into the grave, but raised up by God and all His Kingdom's power and authority has been turned over to Him.

We also see a similar "prediction" of Mashiach in the story of Daniel and Mordecai (in the book of Ester). There are many other "examples" in the Torah where these little stories often "point" to the work of Yeshua. It's these types of stories in the books of Moses and the prophets (among others) that Yeshua was speaking of in Luke 24:27.

"Then beginning with Moses and with all the prophets, He explained to them the things concerning Himself in all the Scriptures."

There's another interesting extension of the "predictive" nature of Yeshua in the Joseph story, that seems to predict the Mashiach would go through the "pagan Jesus" phase. After Joseph became ruler of all the land, the famine brought the brothers (Israel) before Him in need of "salvation". However, by this time Joseph looked nothing like a Jew. He was clean shaved, wearing make-up and a wig. He was not wearing the titzit and dressed in the linen garments of an Egyptian prince. He even did not speak to them in Hebrew, but in Egyptian and only through a translator.

Joseph looked and sounded nothing like a Jew, but a pagan prince. That's why his brother's didn't recognize him even though they were standing right in front of him and conversing with him. This is exactly what has happened to Yeshua, who for almost 2000 years has been known to the Jews as a pagan prince Jesus. No wonder so few Jews have accepted this Jesus! How could they see though this pagan faade?

It's not until Joseph removes his wig and speaks to them in Hebrew do they (the bothers Israel) recognize him. This is what we should be striving to do; removing the pagan trappings of Jesus, so we can reveal the true nature of Yeshua to the Jews and the rest of the world.

Shalom

Not really true. You don't know how many people have contacted me outside of TexAgs, based on TexAgs postings.

They see through the bullcrap people like Retired post. Most people today would have coward at the way Yeshua spoke to some of the Pharisees. Yet they continued coming. Too many people today are thin skinned and only want to have their ears tickled. Well, I am not here to do that. If you want your ears tickled, go see a pastor.

Prolly looking for this word...

Segue

This is why the Jews are called the synagogue of Satan in Revelation.

They do not believe in God. Jesus.

agie95 said:

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1a. Yeshua is a manifestation of God. Just like the burning bush, the "angel" who visited Avraham, the Rock in the wilderness, etc. These are all manifestations. He is divine, but He is not a deity. He was without sin until He bore them at His death. He was resurrected. We are given the picture of Yeshua and how He relates to God with Pharaoh and Joseph. Pharaoh basically became a father to Joseph. Pharaoh set Him up in charge of his entire kingdom. When you saw Joseph it was as if you saw Pharaoh. When Joseph issued a decree it was as if Pharaoh issued the decree. He is the second Adam.

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~sigh~

I'm scratching my head because of the verses here in Genesis 41:

Genesis 41:39-40 New International Version (NIV)

39 Then Pharaoh said to Joseph, "Since God has made all this known to you, there is no one so discerning and wise as you. 40 You shall be in charge of my palace, and all my people are to submit to your orders. Only with respect to the throne will I be greater than you."


The problem I see here is just that, it's reeks of human authority and human hierarchies and such.

Jesus never mentioned being greater than the Father or the Holy Spirit. "I am in Him and He is in me!" They are the triune God.

Not to mention how the very next Pharaoh did the nation of Israel later on.

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This isn't a debate dude. You can have your Jesus. I don't want anything to with him.

Note: Yeshua is not Jesus.

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Ok well, since you seem to be a big stickler on names, I made a thread on the different names of the Lord and you were curiously/oddly not present for a comment on that thread; or perhaps you missed it.

https://texags.com/forums/15/topics/2934664

I even tried to get the names in Hebrew, but for some strange reason, they were auto-deleted.

In all honesty, I believe too much emphasis is being placed on names; to the point to where it's kind of missing the point. Do you believe in the Holy Trinity? Yes? Okay, you're good. Do you believe in the Miracles/His death on the Cross for our sins? Do you have faith?

If someone said, "I believe, in my heart, in the One Who was and Is and Is to come, and wish to receive the free gift of Salvation, (there you go, they are saved)."

It would seem awfully shallow to think God would deny someone a place in Heaven simply because they got His name wrong when they honestly and truly knew who He was and what He did on earth and what He was about and had faith in Him.

This shows your ignorance of the Scripture.

agie95 said:

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This shows your ignorance of the Scripture.

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Why do you keep responding to someone that didn't start the thread? That was your excuse for dodging dds' post, which is odd given that you've responded to nearly every other poster on this thread.

I only wish those who are agitating you would castrate themselves!

Booboo, if you want to discuss my beliefs further, please reach me via other avenues.

dp

agie95 said:

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This shows your ignorance of the Scripture.

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Ignorance about which part? The name of Yeshua?

agie95 said:

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This isn't a debate dude. You can have your Jesus. I don't want anything to with him.

Note: Yeshua is not Jesus.

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John 10:25-30 New International Version (NIV)

25 Jesus answered, "I did tell you, but you do not believe. The works I do in my Father's name testify about me,
26 but you do not believe because you are not my sheep. 27 My sheep listen to my voice; I know them, and they follow me.
28 I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; no one will snatch them out of my hand.
29 My Father, who has given them to me, is greater than all; no one can snatch them out of my Father's hand.
30 I and the Father are one."


(Verse 29 is why I believe, once saved, always saved.)


1 John 2:20-23 New International Version (NIV)

20 But you have an anointing from the Holy One, and all of you know the truth.
21 I do not write to you because you do not know the truth, but because you do know it and because no lie comes from the truth.
22 Who is the liar? It is whoever denies that Jesus is the Christ. Such a person is the antichristdenying the Father and the Son.
23 No one who denies the Son has the Father; whoever acknowledges the Son has the Father also.


1 John 2:18-19 New International Version (NIV)

Warnings Against Denying the Son
18 Dear children, this is the last hour; and as you have heard that the antichrist is coming, even now many antichrists have come. This is how we know it is the last hour.
19 They went out from us, but they did not really belong to us. For if they had belonged to us, they would have remained with us; but their going showed that none of them belonged to us.




~ a very long sigh~