Question For Christians

14,243 Views | 423 Replies | Last: 5 yr ago by agie95
agie95
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AG

How do you determine what to obey? Ten commandments? "Moral" commandments? Those mentioned in "New Testament"?

Martin Q. Blank
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agie95 said:


How do you determine what to obey? Ten commandments? "Moral" commandments? Those mentioned in "New Testament"?


What is preached on Sunday: ten commandments, moral commandments, and those mentioned in the new testament which all seem to be the same thing to me.

btw...why new "testament" and not "covenant".
agie95
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AG
so loving God is a moral commandment?
The Sabbath is a moral commandment?

I am failing to see how they are all the same.

I used testament vs covenant, b/c that is what Christians call the books of the gospels and epistles.
Martin Q. Blank
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agie95 said:

so loving God is a moral commandment?
The Sabbath is a moral commandment?

I am failing to see how they are all the same.

I used testament vs covenant, b/c that is what Christians call the books of the gospels and epistles.
Loving God and worshiping him regularly are both moral commandments, yes.
agie95
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AG
ok. God said to worship Him on the Sabbath, not Sunday. So is one immoral for not observing the Sabbath?

A second question, aren't all of God's commandments moral?
jkag89
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Solo Tetherball Champ
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agie95 said:

ok. God said to worship Him on the Sabbath, not Sunday. So is one immoral for not observing the Sabbath?

A second question, aren't all of God's commandments moral?
This is not meant as a gotcha, but how can you be sure you are worshipping him on the actual sabbath?

You're assuming that despite all of the rebellions, mass relocations, attempted genocides, and generally fallibility that the Jews are still worshiping him on the correct day, thousands of years after the command was given.

agie95
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AG
Quote:

This is not meant as a gotcha, but how can you be sure you are worshipping him on the actual sabbath?

You're assuming that despite all of the rebellions, mass relocations, attempted genocides, and generally fallibility that the Jews are still worshiping him on the correct day, thousands of years after the command was given.


There are several reasons why we know the Sabbath of the Jews today was the Sabbath in ancient times:

1. In many languages, the term used for Saturday translates to Sabbath.

Arabic: Sabet
Armenian: Shabat
Bosnian: Subota
Bulgarian: Sabota
Corsican: Sbatu
Croatian: Subota
Czech: Sobota
Georgian: Sabati
Greek: Savvato
Hebrew: Shabbat
Indonesian: Sabtu
Italian: Sabato
Latin: Sabbatum
Maltese: is-Sibt
Polish: Sobota
Portuguese: Sbado
Romanian: Sambata
Russian: Subbota
Serbian: Subota
Slovak: Sobota
Slovene: Sobota
Somali: Sabti
Spanish: Sabado
Sudanese: Saptu
Ukranian: Subota

2. It is not hard to count six days and the next is Sabbath. We know that Yeshua have kept the Sabbath properly. Therefore, it only needs to be kept up with for less than 2,000 years.

3. Some historical documents also point to Christians observing the 1st day which has been Sunday. Pretty much all religions count Saturday as the seventh day. The Catholic church openly admits that Saturday is the Sabbath.
Marco Esquandolas
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AG
I worship him on Sudoku. I think that works out to Tuesday according to the Mayan calendar.
dermdoc
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jkag89 said:


Agree. Oy vey.
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agie95
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AG
Aren't all of God's commandments moral?
agie95
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AG
You don't have to read or respond. If you are tired of it...don't click on my posts. It is that easy. Thanks for the bump though.
Martin Q. Blank
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agie95 said:

ok. God said to worship Him on the Sabbath, not Sunday. So is one immoral for not observing the Sabbath?

A second question, aren't all of God's commandments moral?
Not all of God's commandments are moral. Some legal, some to specific people for a specific time, etc.

Sunday is the Christian Sabbath known as the Lord's day.
Aggiefan#1
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AG
agie95,

I want to personally thank you, in my own minuscule way, for your contributions to the Christian Faith. I feel as if your efforts here have immeasurably profited The Church in more ways than you ever intended or imagined on this board.

Win At Life
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AG
Martin Q. Blank said:

agie95 said:

ok. God said to worship Him on the Sabbath, not Sunday. So is one immoral for not observing the Sabbath?

A second question, aren't all of God's commandments moral?
Not all of God's commandments are moral. Some legal, some to specific people for a specific time, etc.

Sunday is the Christian Sabbath known as the Lord's day.


Would you consider gathering firewood on Sunday to be violating a "moral" commandment?
jkag89
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agie95 said:

You don't have to read or respond. If you are tired of it...don't click on my posts. It is that easy. Thanks for the bump though.
You've tried over and over this line of reasoning, what do you hope to achieve trying it again?

How I miss Bracy, he later went way off the rails but for most of his stint of posting here he made varied and cogent arguments.
dermdoc
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AG
agie95 said:

You don't have to read or respond. If you are tired of it...don't click on my posts. It is that easy. Thanks for the bump though.
You are correct and I apologize.
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swimmerbabe11
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booboo91
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Win At Life said:

Martin Q. Blank said:

agie95 said:

ok. God said to worship Him on the Sabbath, not Sunday. So is one immoral for not observing the Sabbath?

A second question, aren't all of God's commandments moral?
Not all of God's commandments are moral. Some legal, some to specific people for a specific time, etc.

Sunday is the Christian Sabbath known as the Lord's day.


Would you consider gathering firewood on Sunday to be violating a "moral" commandment?
Not keeping holy the sabbath/ Lord's day would be the moral command. Still required, very important for us to rest, spend time with family and worship God. The stoning the man to death would be the civil punishment that was carried out roughly 3000 years ago (not required).

I do very much agree with Agie95, we are not doing this in the USA, we have lost our way on this have new false idols and priorities. The Lord's day or Sabbath is just another day of the week. The blue laws are gone- businesses closed on Sunday. And kids little league select baseball has replaced worship of God.

Day of the week worship is settled by early church. Falls under the council of Jerusalem 50 AD. Answers the question do New gentile Christians do not have to become Jews- follow the Mosaic law? The answer is No Catholic Answers- Sabbath or Sunday?
dermdoc
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AG
Agree, especially about keeping Sunday, the Lord's Day holy. IMHO, Sunday should be a day of worship, rest, family time, and reflection on Christ's sacrifice for us,
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powerbelly
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Christians are free to rest on Sunday. The government should not tell businesses when they can be open.
Amazing Moves
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agie95 said:


How do you determine what to obey? Ten commandments? "Moral" commandments? Those mentioned in "New Testament"?


Isn't this a better question for you? Aren't you the resident Jewish/Christian hybrid?
booboo91
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powerbelly said:

Christians are free to rest on Sunday. The government should not tell businesses when they can be open.
I agree with you. My point, if it was really important to Chrisitans more people/ businesses would implement days of rest and worship- see Chick-Fil-a. We would still see a form of the blue laws.

On the other side, we see govenment already telll business (us) many things; work 40 hours per, age of workers, minimum wage rates. It is not crazy for the government, or group of local individuals (local government) say there should be no work on Sunday. Example See small towns Davidson, NC, that will not let businesses open up in there town. National big store franchize are not allowed in to small towns, it will disrupt the culture of the community, they limit growth of new construction.
Archie86
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I am compelled to follow the 10 Commandments as my moral compass. For me, most challenging is loving all my neighbors. Really struggle with this one.
agie95
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Martin Q. Blank said:

agie95 said:

ok. God said to worship Him on the Sabbath, not Sunday. So is one immoral for not observing the Sabbath?

A second question, aren't all of God's commandments moral?
Not all of God's commandments are moral. Some legal, some to specific people for a specific time, etc.

Sunday is the Christian Sabbath known as the Lord's day.
The definition of moral is of or relating to principles of right and wrong in behavior.

God gave us His commandments to give us principles to abide by in our daily lives. When we don't live by these principles, our behavior, according to God, is in the wrong. When we do them, we are in the right.

Therefore, all of the commandments are moral. Man came up with the divisions.

Regarding the "Christian Sabbath", can you point to any disciple or Paul telling you to change the the Sabbath? The Sabbath was and is a pretty big deal in Judaism, therefore, one would think someone somewhere would have stated the change.
MooreTrucker
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agie95 said:


How do you determine what to obey? Ten commandments? "Moral" commandments? Those mentioned in "New Testament"?


AS I pointed out in that other thread, you can obey Jesus's great commandments, by obeying the 10 Commandments. He just condenses (and broadens) them into two basic ideas.


  • I am the Lord thy God, thou shall not have any gods before me. - Love God
  • You shall not make for yourself an idol in the form of anything. - Love God
  • You shall not misuse the name of the Lord your God. - Love God
  • Remember the Sabbath day by keeping it holy. - Love God
  • Honor your father and your mother. - Love others
  • You shall not murder. - Love others
  • You shall not commit adultery. - Love others
  • You shall not steal. - Love others
  • You shall not give false testimony against your neighbor. - Love others
  • You shall not covet your neighbor's house, wife, or property. - Love others
  • agie95
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    AG
    What about the other ones? The other 603?
    MooreTrucker
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    AG
    agie95 said:

    What about the other ones? The other 603?
    Where do those other 603 come from? Are they listed in the New Testament? Or is that from the Torah?
    agie95
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    AG

    Torah
    Martin Q. Blank
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    agie95 said:

    Martin Q. Blank said:

    agie95 said:

    ok. God said to worship Him on the Sabbath, not Sunday. So is one immoral for not observing the Sabbath?

    A second question, aren't all of God's commandments moral?
    Not all of God's commandments are moral. Some legal, some to specific people for a specific time, etc.

    Sunday is the Christian Sabbath known as the Lord's day.
    The definition of moral is of or relating to principles of right and wrong in behavior.

    God gave us His commandments to give us principles to abide by in our daily lives. When we don't live by these principles, our behavior, according to God, is in the wrong. When we do them, we are in the right.

    Therefore, all of the commandments are moral. Man came up with the divisions.


    Regarding the "Christian Sabbath", can you point to any disciple or Paul telling you to change the the Sabbath? The Sabbath was and is a pretty big deal in Judaism, therefore, one would think someone somewhere would have stated the change.

    Is it moral to kill your son? That was a commandment given to Abraham.
    agie95
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    AG
    Are you inferring that only commandments listed in the New Testament should be followed...

    So it is not just the 2 or the 10, but all mentioned in the New Testament? Does this include the proper Sabbath?
    MooreTrucker
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    AG
    agie95 said:

    Are you inferring that only commandments listed in the New Testament should be followed...

    So it is not just the 2 or the 10, but all mentioned in the New Testament? Does this include the proper Sabbath?
    My understanding from Jesus is that it's the 2, which encompass the 10 as i showed. As I'm a Christian and don't really follow the Torah, I don't know about any of those others.
    agie95
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    AG
    So since homosexuality is mentioned in new testament you adhere to that, right?

    What about having sex with your sister or an animal? Those are in the Torah, but not mentioned in the New Testament. So according to your standard, those are acceptable behaviors?

    No mention of the Sabbath....how do you handle that, b/c from every time the Sabbath is mentioned it is referring to the proper Sabbath of sundown Friday to sundown Saturday.
    Martin Q. Blank
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    Is killing your son acceptable behavior? That's commanded in the Bible.
    MooreTrucker
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    AG
    agie95 said:

    So since homosexuality is mentioned in new testament you adhere to that, right?

    What about having sex with your sister or an animal? Those are in the Torah, but not mentioned in the New Testament. So according to your standard, those are acceptable behaviors?

    No mention of the Sabbath....how do you handle that, b/c from every time the Sabbath is mentioned it is referring to the proper Sabbath of sundown Friday to sundown Saturday.
    You're twisting around what is said. The commandments are what to DO not what NOT to do.
     
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