Pope Francis' take on changing the translation of the Our Father

999 Views | 10 Replies | Last: 6 yr ago by SoulSlaveAG2005
Thaddeus73
How long do you want to ignore this user?
AG
The Our Father translation
AggieFrankTX
How long do you want to ignore this user?
I honestly do not understand why updating a translation of a translation of something handed down through decades of oral tradition should be controversial.

The connotations of words change with time. Alternate usages of words fall into or out of favor. Sometimes the very definition of a word can change. Heck, I think it is reasonable to provide updated translations of EVERYTHING once every few centuries.

Jesus (presumably) said the prayer in Aramaic. If anyone wrote it down in Aramaic, that document is not now extant for reference. It was first written down decades later in Koine Greek, by someone who may not have been extensively conversant in both languages. The most-common English translations are centuries old.

Re the Lord's prayer, the perfect example is the word "trespass." As a lawyer, I understand that this word had a very different common usage three centuries ago. Even if we skip the Aramaic and Greek, a modern usage would probably be something like "forgive us for the wrongs we do to others, as we forgive the wrongs that are done to us."
Frok
How long do you want to ignore this user?
AG
Quote:

"I believe that we shouldn't have a literal translation, I think we should go with the more authentic translation," said Josie Tinajero outside of St. Patrick's Cathedral.


Wouldn't the literal translation be the most authentic?
Pro Sandy
How long do you want to ignore this user?
AG
Frok said:

Quote:

"I believe that we shouldn't have a literal translation, I think we should go with the more authentic translation," said Josie Tinajero outside of St. Patrick's Cathedral.


Wouldn't the literal translation be the most authentic?
Ever use Google translate? Literal doesn't mean authentic.
Frok
How long do you want to ignore this user?
AG
Maybe not. But I checked and 23 of the 24 translations use lead or bring. Only one uses what the pope now wants to use and it's the NLT which isn't usually known as the most authentic translation.



Duncan Idaho
How long do you want to ignore this user?
Once again this pope is right.
chuckd
How long do you want to ignore this user?
AG

Quote:

"It's not a good translation. In French they've changed the text with a translation that says 'don't let us fall into temptation,' saying it I who falls. "Pope Francis said in an interview with Italy's TV 2000 this week.

"It isn't [God] who is pushing me into temptation."
You shouldn't change words because you don't like the theological implications. Be faithful to the etymology, linguistics, etc. and work from there.
chuckd
How long do you want to ignore this user?
AG
WLC Q. 195. What do we pray for in the sixth petition?

A. In the sixth petition, (which is, And lead us not into temptation, but deliver us from evil,[1273]) acknowledging, that the most wise, righteous, and gracious God, for divers holy and just ends, may so order things, that we may be assaulted, foiled, and for a time led captive by temptations;[1274] that Satan,[1275] the world,[1276] and the flesh, are ready powerfully to draw us aside, and ensnare us;[1277] and that we, even after the pardon of our sins, by reason of our corruption,[1278] weakness, and want of watchfulness,[1279] are not only subject to be tempted, and forward to expose ourselves unto temptations,[1280] but also of ourselves unable and unwilling to resist them, to recover out of them, and to improve them;[1281] and worthy to be left under the power of them:[1282] we pray, that God would so overrule the world and all in it,[1283] subdue the flesh,[1284] and restrain Satan,[1285] order all things,[1286] bestow and bless all means of grace,[1287] and quicken us to watchfulness in the use of them, that we and all his people may by his providence be kept from being tempted to sin;[1288] or, if tempted, that by his Spirit we may be powerfully supported and enabled to stand in the hour of temptation;[1289] or when fallen, raised again and recovered out of it,[1290] and have a sanctified use and improvement thereof:[1291] that our sanctification and salvation may be perfected,[1292] Satan trodden under our feet,[1293] and we fully freed from sin, temptation, and all evil, forever.[1294]
Sapper Redux
How long do you want to ignore this user?
chuckd said:


Quote:

"It's not a good translation. In French they've changed the text with a translation that says 'don't let us fall into temptation,' saying it I who falls. "Pope Francis said in an interview with Italy's TV 2000 this week.

"It isn't [God] who is pushing me into temptation."
You shouldn't change words because you don't like the theological implications. Be faithful to the etymology, linguistics, etc. and work from there.


Except we rarely if ever have a pure original text to work from. And the linguistics don't translate cleanly in many cases.
chuckd
How long do you want to ignore this user?
AG
Dr. Watson said:

chuckd said:


Quote:

"It's not a good translation. In French they've changed the text with a translation that says 'don't let us fall into temptation,' saying it I who falls. "Pope Francis said in an interview with Italy's TV 2000 this week.

"It isn't [God] who is pushing me into temptation."
You shouldn't change words because you don't like the theological implications. Be faithful to the etymology, linguistics, etc. and work from there.
Except we rarely if ever have a pure original text to work from. And the linguistics don't translate cleanly in many cases.
Your first point is a matter of faith and not Francis' reason for proposing a particular translation. Your second simply requires careful study when handling God's word and still does not overcome Francis' objection.
jkag89
How long do you want to ignore this user?
Those of you here that have enjoyed the works of J.R.R. Tolkien might enjoy this essay -

Frankie, Tolkien and the Lord's Prayer
SoulSlaveAG2005
How long do you want to ignore this user?
AG
Very interesting.
Refresh
Page 1 of 1
 
×
subscribe Verify your student status
See Subscription Benefits
Trial only available to users who have never subscribed or participated in a previous trial.