Anglican/Episcopal priest prays for Prince George to be gay
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Last: 6 yr ago by Captain Pablo
That's stupid
HSFootballAg24 said:
That's stupid
I agree
Why does the church keep these guys around?
Anglican Church is worthless and has been for years.
How about right from the start! There were troubles, when your founder is Henry the 8th. Not good.Aggie4Life02 said:
Anglican Church is worthless and has been for years.
Had to get my digs in on Anglican and Episcopal brothers!
If he does grow up to be gay can we chalk it up to the power of prayer?
Beer Baron said:
If he does grow up to be gay can we chalk it up to the power of prayer?
I believe my fervent prayer to be responsible for lesbian bed death
Beer Baron said:
If he does grow up to be gay can we chalk it up to the power of prayer?
That's one data point. We would need to pray for thousands of kids to choose to be gay in order to scientifically decide things. How does that prayer go?
Wouldn't praying for someone to be a homosexual, be just as bad as praying for someone to be a robber or have an abortion, etc, etc?
Inappropriate use of prayer.
I hope the Lord teaches him a lesson.
Announcing this kind of prayer to the media kinda reminds me of those pharisees and high priests that Jesus spoke of who pray out in the streets in front of their windows, in the view for everyone to see. Such is there reward here on earth.
Inappropriate use of prayer.
I hope the Lord teaches him a lesson.
Announcing this kind of prayer to the media kinda reminds me of those pharisees and high priests that Jesus spoke of who pray out in the streets in front of their windows, in the view for everyone to see. Such is there reward here on earth.
As I saw on another thread on this topic, praying for them to be gay will be just as ineffective as trying to pray the gay away. They're gay or they're not. Same w/ trans persons.
That a clergyman would do this, especially for purposes of promoting an agenda as he is, is obscene. I'm not familiar w/ the Anglicans, aside from things I see here and there. From what I've seen, I would not step foot in an Anglican church. Isn't there an Anglican poster here?
That a clergyman would do this, especially for purposes of promoting an agenda as he is, is obscene. I'm not familiar w/ the Anglicans, aside from things I see here and there. From what I've seen, I would not step foot in an Anglican church. Isn't there an Anglican poster here?
RetiredAg said:
As I saw on another thread on this topic, praying for them to be gay will be just as ineffective as trying to pray the gay away. They're gay or they're not. Same w/ trans persons.
That a clergyman would do this, especially for purposes of promoting an agenda as he is, is obscene. I'm not familiar w/ the Anglicans, aside from things I see here and there. From what I've seen, I would not step foot in an Anglican church. Isn't there an Anglican poster here?
I'm sure there are Episcopal posters here
Usually the ones defending the Episcopal side of insanity are liberal atheists, though
The arguments are secular/social of course
Gene Robinson for instance
dds08 said:
Wouldn't praying for someone to be a homosexual, be just as bad as praying for someone to be a robber or have an abortion, etc, etc?
Inappropriate use of prayer.
I hope the Lord teaches him a lesson.
Announcing this kind of prayer to the media kinda reminds me of those pharisees and high priests that Jesus spoke of who pray out in the streets in front of their windows, in the view for everyone to see. Such is there reward here on earth.
He needs to be immediately defrocked
But he won't
The Episcopal Church went off the tracks several years ago
The Anglicans give lip service in disapproval of ECUSA for example, and probably this guy, but that's about it
Captain Pablo said:RetiredAg said:
As I saw on another thread on this topic, praying for them to be gay will be just as ineffective as trying to pray the gay away. They're gay or they're not. Same w/ trans persons.
That a clergyman would do this, especially for purposes of promoting an agenda as he is, is obscene. I'm not familiar w/ the Anglicans, aside from things I see here and there. From what I've seen, I would not step foot in an Anglican church. Isn't there an Anglican poster here?
I'm sure there are Episcopal posters here
Usually the ones defending the Episcopal side of insanity are liberal atheists, though
The arguments are secular/social of course
Gene Robinson for instance
Why do you frame religious or philosophical arguments in an American "liberal vs conservative" narrative? Is politics that important to you that it frames everything and only along one peculiar binary?
I was an Episcopalian and still very much respect the church. I don't attend because I don't believe the underlying theology. The way it was discussed had to do with the evolution of human societies and morals towards greater love and greater acceptance. That the laws of 1200 BC weren't timeless.
This is a link to work they've done on LGBT issues and theology. I'm sure you'll hate it, but if you want to know their reasoning, it's a start.
http://www.chicagoconsultation.org
Dr. Watson said:Captain Pablo said:RetiredAg said:
As I saw on another thread on this topic, praying for them to be gay will be just as ineffective as trying to pray the gay away. They're gay or they're not. Same w/ trans persons.
That a clergyman would do this, especially for purposes of promoting an agenda as he is, is obscene. I'm not familiar w/ the Anglicans, aside from things I see here and there. From what I've seen, I would not step foot in an Anglican church. Isn't there an Anglican poster here?
I'm sure there are Episcopal posters here
Usually the ones defending the Episcopal side of insanity are liberal atheists, though
The arguments are secular/social of course
Gene Robinson for instance
Why do you frame religious or philosophical arguments in an American "liberal vs conservative" narrative? Is politics that important to you that it frames everything and only along one peculiar binary?
I was an Episcopalian and still very much respect the church. I don't attend because I don't believe the underlying theology. The way it was discussed had to do with the evolution of human societies and morals towards greater love and greater acceptance. That the laws of 1200 BC weren't timeless.
This is a link to work they've done on LGBT issues and theology. I'm sure you'll hate it, but if you want to know their reasoning, it's a start.
http://www.chicagoconsultation.org
Because it is political
Episcopals made it that way
They turned away from fundamental biblical authority on homosexuality and chose secular social justice instead
Other issues as well. While the ECUSA is officially pro-life, many Bishops and Parishes are openly pro abortion rights
Wait, you're lecturing me on politicization, when I got to about the 2nd or 3rd paragraph before I started reading about social justice at the state, federal and municipal level
Captain Pablo said:Dr. Watson said:Captain Pablo said:RetiredAg said:
As I saw on another thread on this topic, praying for them to be gay will be just as ineffective as trying to pray the gay away. They're gay or they're not. Same w/ trans persons.
That a clergyman would do this, especially for purposes of promoting an agenda as he is, is obscene. I'm not familiar w/ the Anglicans, aside from things I see here and there. From what I've seen, I would not step foot in an Anglican church. Isn't there an Anglican poster here?
I'm sure there are Episcopal posters here
Usually the ones defending the Episcopal side of insanity are liberal atheists, though
The arguments are secular/social of course
Gene Robinson for instance
Why do you frame religious or philosophical arguments in an American "liberal vs conservative" narrative? Is politics that important to you that it frames everything and only along one peculiar binary?
I was an Episcopalian and still very much respect the church. I don't attend because I don't believe the underlying theology. The way it was discussed had to do with the evolution of human societies and morals towards greater love and greater acceptance. That the laws of 1200 BC weren't timeless.
This is a link to work they've done on LGBT issues and theology. I'm sure you'll hate it, but if you want to know their reasoning, it's a start.
http://www.chicagoconsultation.org
Because it is political
Episcopals made it that way
They turned away from fundamental biblical authority on homosexuality and chose secular social justice instead
Other issues as well. While the ECUSA is officially pro-life, many Bishops and Parishes are openly pro abortion rights
So the Bible is best defined along an American political axis? I don't remember the Bible saying much about compound interest rates, the estate tax, or military spending.
Captain Pablo said:
Wait, you're lecturing me on politicization, when I got to about the 2nd or 3rd paragraph before I started reading about social justice at the state, federal and municipal level
Again, the American liberal/conservative binary is not the end-all-be-all of human categorization. And I'm pretty sure the Episcopal Church said nothing about right vs left.
Dr. Watson said:Captain Pablo said:
Wait, you're lecturing me on politicization, when I got to about the 2nd or 3rd paragraph before I started reading about social justice at the state, federal and municipal level
Again, the American liberal/conservative binary is not the end-all-be-all of human categorization. And I'm pretty sure the Episcopal Church said nothing about right vs left.
They have to "say" it
They're left
Far left
Doesn't have to be "said"
Captain Pablo said:Dr. Watson said:Captain Pablo said:
Wait, you're lecturing me on politicization, when I got to about the 2nd or 3rd paragraph before I started reading about social justice at the state, federal and municipal level
Again, the American liberal/conservative binary is not the end-all-be-all of human categorization. And I'm pretty sure the Episcopal Church said nothing about right vs left.
They have to "say" it
They're left
Far left
Doesn't have to be "said"
You're completely ignoring the point. I guess modern American political affiliation is all you care about.
Dr. Watson said:Captain Pablo said:Dr. Watson said:Captain Pablo said:
Wait, you're lecturing me on politicization, when I got to about the 2nd or 3rd paragraph before I started reading about social justice at the state, federal and municipal level
Again, the American liberal/conservative binary is not the end-all-be-all of human categorization. And I'm pretty sure the Episcopal Church said nothing about right vs left.
They have to "say" it
They're left
Far left
Doesn't have to be "said"
You're completely ignoring the point. I guess modern American political affiliation is all you care about.
Of course not
I do care about what organizations do and what they advocate...
It's what defines them
Has nothing to do with partisanship or labels
It has to do with who they are
Captain Pablo said:Dr. Watson said:Captain Pablo said:Dr. Watson said:Captain Pablo said:
Wait, you're lecturing me on politicization, when I got to about the 2nd or 3rd paragraph before I started reading about social justice at the state, federal and municipal level
Again, the American liberal/conservative binary is not the end-all-be-all of human categorization. And I'm pretty sure the Episcopal Church said nothing about right vs left.
They have to "say" it
They're left
Far left
Doesn't have to be "said"
You're completely ignoring the point. I guess modern American political affiliation is all you care about.
Of course not
I do care about what organizations do and what they advocate...
It's what defines them
Has nothing to do with partisanship or labels
It has to do with who they are
Then why are you labeling people and institutions on a partisan basis?
Dr. Watson said:Captain Pablo said:Dr. Watson said:Captain Pablo said:Dr. Watson said:Captain Pablo said:
Wait, you're lecturing me on politicization, when I got to about the 2nd or 3rd paragraph before I started reading about social justice at the state, federal and municipal level
Again, the American liberal/conservative binary is not the end-all-be-all of human categorization. And I'm pretty sure the Episcopal Church said nothing about right vs left.
They have to "say" it
They're left
Far left
Doesn't have to be "said"
You're completely ignoring the point. I guess modern American political affiliation is all you care about.
Of course not
I do care about what organizations do and what they advocate...
It's what defines them
Has nothing to do with partisanship or labels
It has to do with who they are
Then why are you labeling people and institutions on a partisan basis?
I'm just saying what they are, and expressing my disdain for it
It is their defining characteristic
They made sure of that
What's the problem?
I don't think you can make that blanket statement. I believe it is Both- genetics (plays a huge role) and also enviroment. Enviroment Examples- If you are molested at young age, look at porn all the time, it (enviroment) messes you up.RetiredAg said:
As I saw on another thread on this topic, praying for them to be gay will be just as ineffective as trying to pray the gay away. They're gay or they're not. Same w/ trans persons.
Some of the Trans folks are messed up mentally, I would argue that many/most absolutely have a choice in the matter on sticking with their God given gender.
Praying can absolutely help folks, at the very least with wisdom and discernment. On How to properly live your life.
Humans are not On/ Off switches (Digital signal) but rather dimmer switches (Analog signals). We are all different, different genetics and different enviroment.
I do find it funny:
A Gay person is born and there is absolutely No choice in the matter (presume this goes for the folks who are also bi-sexual). But yet with Trans folks, they get to choose. They get to decide and change their mind over and over. Just depends how they feel that day.
Moral Relativism gone amuck- I am feeling like a 7 ft, Vietnamese woman right now! Thus I am!
What nonsense. The Good news is the Truth will eventually overcome this lunacy.
A Gay person is born and there is absolutely No choice in the matter (presume this goes for the folks who are also bi-sexual). But yet with Trans folks, they get to choose. They get to decide and change their mind over and over. Just depends how they feel that day.
Moral Relativism gone amuck- I am feeling like a 7 ft, Vietnamese woman right now! Thus I am!
What nonsense. The Good news is the Truth will eventually overcome this lunacy.
booboo91 said:
I do find it funny:
A Gay person is born and there is absolutely No choice in the matter (presume this goes for the folks who are also bi-sexual). But yet with Trans folks, they get to choose. They get to decide and change their mind over and over. Just depends how they feel that day.
Moral Relativism gone amuck- I am feeling like a 7 ft, Vietnamese woman right now! Thus I am!
What nonsense. The Good news is the Truth will eventually overcome this lunacy.
You might benefit by reading up on what it is to be transgendered. It's not, "I feel like this today."
Oh, of course they have the choice as to whether or not to transition. They don't have the choice on being transgender or not.Quote:
Some of the Trans folks are messed up mentally, I would argue that many/most absolutely have a choice in the matter on sticking with their God given gender.
Absolutely agree. It won't make them stop being transgender. It may help them in coping w/ any issues while transitioning or not.Quote:
Praying can absolutely help folks
Trans persons don't just "get to choose". They get to choose whether or not to transition, but the underlying issue of being transgender is still there regardless of their decision.booboo91 said:
I do find it funny:
A Gay person is born and there is absolutely No choice in the matter (presume this goes for the folks who are also bi-sexual). But yet with Trans folks, they get to choose. They get to decide and change their mind over and over. Just depends how they feel that day.
Moral Relativism gone amuck- I am feeling like a 7 ft, Vietnamese woman right now! Thus I am!
What nonsense. The Good news is the Truth will eventually overcome this lunacy.
we agree, they absolutely have underlying issues to deal with.Quote:
Trans persons don't just "get to choose". They get to choose whether or not to transition, but the underlying issue of being transgender is still there regardless of their decision.
- As I see it. We have lots of people that are born different- Albinos, hermaphrodite, birth defects, downs, brain disease- bi-polar, kleptomaniac,schizophrenia and people born with lots of other challenges. I put trans folks in this same category. They are born one sex and their brain/mental state/confusion says something else. God still loves them!
- Trans folks are like everyone else (we all have issues and challenges) to deal with (some are bigger than others). Christians are called to love everyone, but this does not mean to accept all bad behavior and call it good.
- Can easily see lunacy with some Hetrosexual folks getting plastic surgery (missing a few screws) Why is it any different for some of the Trans folks? I think we are talking only about 0.3% of the population.
And studies have shown the most effective way of dealing with the underlying issues is through acceptance and transition.booboo91 said:we agree, they absolutely have underlying issues to deal with.Quote:
Trans persons don't just "get to choose". They get to choose whether or not to transition, but the underlying issue of being transgender is still there regardless of their decision.
- As I see it. We have lots of people that are born different- Albinos, hermaphrodite, birth defects, downs, brain disease- bi-polar, kleptomaniac,schizophrenia and people born with lots of other challenges. I put trans folks in this same category. They are born one sex and their brain/mental state/confusion says something else. god still loves them!
- Trans folks are like everyone else (we all have issues and challenges) to deal with (some are bigger than others). Christians are called to love everyone, but this does not mean to accept all bad behavior and call it good.
- Can easily see lunacy with some Hetrosexual folks getting plastic surgery (missing a few screws) Why is it any different for some of the Trans folks? I think we are talking only about 0.3% of the population.
As for your 2nd point, you're operating under the assumption that being transgender or even transitioning is "bad behavior". It's not. Where I see the "bad behavior" is the absolute filth that trans persons have to deal w/ from those who claim Christ. They are hardly treated w/ love, especially when people who are ignorant on the issue itself deride and minimize their struggles as I routinely see around here.
And what does the size of the trans population matter? We've seen in other societies that embrace a more fluid concept of gender (not sex, but gender), trans persons are significantly more mentally healthy. But the size of the population is irrelevant.
God does still love them. Absolutely, even if they've transitioned. I just wish many of those who follow Christ also showed them love, which is far too often not the case.
BTW, if you want to learn more about the issue of gender dysphoria and identity, I'd highly recommend Mark Yarhouse's book. As I have learned more and more about this very complex issue, it's helped me adopt a much more loving approach. Yarhouse is a Christian psychologist and writes this from more of a pastoral care perspective. He's come to the point that he takes a "path of least invasiveness" approach. Not all persons who struggle w/ gender dysphoria are the same, so not all approaches will be the same.
It's a very good book for those wanting to learn more about this subject.
It's a very good book for those wanting to learn more about this subject.
Dr. Watson said:booboo91 said:
I do find it funny:
A Gay person is born and there is absolutely No choice in the matter (presume this goes for the folks who are also bi-sexual). But yet with Trans folks, they get to choose. They get to decide and change their mind over and over. Just depends how they feel that day.
Moral Relativism gone amuck- I am feeling like a 7 ft, Vietnamese woman right now! Thus I am!
What nonsense. The Good news is the Truth will eventually overcome this lunacy.
You might benefit by reading up on what it is to be transgendered. It's not, "I feel like this today."
Not necessarily trying to argue, but I have read first hand accounts of people who do feel male today, and female the next, and something else the third. When you're trying to tell someone that not everything is left/right or black/white, it is good to not fall into that trap yourself.
Well it's certainly not what organs they have. Or chromosomes. Or even how they "present" themselves to society. So what is it?Dr. Watson said:You might benefit by reading up on what it is to be transgendered. It's not, "I feel like this today."booboo91 said:
I do find it funny:
A Gay person is born and there is absolutely No choice in the matter (presume this goes for the folks who are also bi-sexual). But yet with Trans folks, they get to choose. They get to decide and change their mind over and over. Just depends how they feel that day.
Moral Relativism gone amuck- I am feeling like a 7 ft, Vietnamese woman right now! Thus I am!
What nonsense. The Good news is the Truth will eventually overcome this lunacy.
Does Christianity have a problem with transgenderism?
Honest question, as I don't know
I can see how Christianity would have a problem with a male to female that has sex with a dude
I assume it would be viewed simply as homosexual conduct
But just the act of transitioning?
Honest question, as I don't know
I can see how Christianity would have a problem with a male to female that has sex with a dude
I assume it would be viewed simply as homosexual conduct
But just the act of transitioning?
There is no such thing.Quote:
But just the act of transitioning?
I've asked that question here before. I've spoken with probably a dozen pastors across the theological spectrum. None have been able to give any scriptural backing to the act of transitioning being sinful.Captain Pablo said:
Does Christianity have a problem with transgenderism?
Honest question, as I don't know
I can see how Christianity would have a problem with a male to female that has sex with a dude
I assume it would be viewed simply as homosexual conduct
But just the act of transitioning?
You do raise a good point, though. I have a close friend who recently opened up about being trans. She's male-to-female, is married and has children. Her wife and kids are on board w/ transition because they saw what life was like for "him" and how it was only getting worse. The issue, in their eyes, became a choice between a dead father or living and mentally healthy mother. But, one of the issues she struggled with was did that change their relationship from a heterosexual one to a homosexual one. Obviously divorce isn't something they'd consider, as they both love each other, and God, deeply. I honestly couldn't tell them if it changed the "label" of their relationship though. Her wife had the perspective that regardless of what she looks on the outside, her "husband" has always been a woman, so it didn't change anything. It was simply a change of exterior.
It's a complex issue though. Very complex, and one that I've really sought a lot of pastoral guidance on so I can help out my friend as much as possible.
JW
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