The one who steals, kills, and destroys....

1,875 Views | 16 Replies | Last: 6 yr ago by dds08
dds08
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What exactly is in it for him?

How does he benefit from persuading/inducing us to sin?


Who wants a world after a nuclear war? Nothing is any good.
John1248
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Follow up. Why is he also the great accusor? Why does he accuse us before God? What difference should it make to him? So much we don't understand.
dds08
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More followers.

It's the only reason I can think of.

All that Satan does is to get more followers. He even had enough nerve to tempt Jesus.

Satan wishes to expand his kingdom any way he can. Even if it means tempting individuals who are forever out of his grasp, born again believers. More so believers because it weakens the witness of the church to the world when born again believers sin and do evil just as quickly, and as well as someone who does not believe/never heard the name Jesus/never stepped foot in a church/never saw or heard of the bible.

Kind of like politicians who always want to increase the number of constituents or the number of people they represent.

The more people I have in my kingdom, the better.

A soul is worth fighting over I guess.

In the Lord's case, He would love to have you, but He's not necessarily coming after you to use you and exploit anyone, unlike some spirits. Anything the Lord wants done, he could very well do it on His own. He's a servant of His followers to help them reach self-actualization and purity. He loves.
Rocag
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The modern Christian characterization of Satan is a weird one. One of the best and brightest of the angels who decided to revolt against an omnipotent and omniscient being? What intelligent being fights a war they absolutely know they can't win? Someone who doesn't have a choice perhaps? A true believer in the cause they're fighting for? Or the other choice, Satan knows something we don't. Perhaps the true lesson we should learn from Satan is that God can be overcome and defeated.

Or they're all just mythological and allowed to not make sense. Whatever.
dds08
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Well I have heard some people justify Satan's acts with a focus on his "vanity" and "vain" means/ends/motives.

For Satan, if he cannot rule/reign absolute in heaven, why not be the top guy somewhere else, namely Hell?

I doubt he actually is the top person all the time in hell because his followers are just as cruel and power hungry as he is and are always looking for a weakness/opportunity in the top leader to exploit, and take advantage of.
dds08
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Rocag said:

The modern Christian characterization of Satan is a weird one. One of the best and brightest of the angels who decided to revolt against an omnipotent and omniscient being? What intelligent being fights a war they absolutely know they can't win? Someone who doesn't have a choice perhaps? A true believer in the cause they're fighting for? Or the other choice, Satan knows something we don't. Perhaps the true lesson we should learn from Satan is that God can be overcome and defeated.

Or they're all just mythological and allowed to not make sense. Whatever.
This reminds me of Pharaoh.

The Lord said He would harden Pharaoh's heart.

At first glance, you would think the Lord would soften Pharaoh's heart so that maybe he (Pharaoh) would go ahead and let the people go! Perhaps this is not entirely how things work. The Egyptians and Pharaoh had all that time before Moses showed up to be kind to the children of Israel. They had plenty of time to treat them not as slaves, but equal citizens.

Once Moses showed up, all bets were off. I suspect the Lord decided to use Pharaoh for His own means and ends, namely to bring about glory to His power and strength as evidenced by the plagues.
Rocag
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Makes a bit of a joke out of the whole "free will" thing doesn't it? Oh, you aren't going to do what God wants you to? Well then he'll just change your personality just a bit and BAM! Now you're using your "free will" to do exactly what he wants.
dds08
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In Pharaoh's case, he wasn't a follower of the God of Abraham/Issac/Jacob. So the Lord used him the way he did.

In Jonah's case, it seemed the Lord gave him something to do and it was Jonah's own heart, outside of anything God did, that made him disobey the Lord. It was Jonah's own stubbornness that got him in the hole he was in.

The children of Israel at times were described as a "stiffed-neck" people. God gave them a choice.

The Lord deals with his followers one way, and deals with non-followers and unbelievers a different way.

Perhaps the way the Lord dealt with Pharaoh's heart is a warning to all unbelievers.

Look at how the Lord came to Paul, in a blinding light, when he was persecuting all the Christians, later on in the New Testament. (Act 22:6)

Woe to the unbeliever!

Rocag
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I've never heard the claim that only believers have free will. It seems problematic.
Pro Sandy
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Rocag said:

I've never heard the claim that only believers have free will. It seems problematic.
The teaching is roughly that because of the fall, we are slaves to sin an unable of our own free will to please God. When we are born again, we are freed from sin and able to freely do things to please God by the power of the Spirit.
Rocag
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Implying that a person doesn't have free will to choose whether or not to believe in the first place. That goes a bit beyond just saying the future is set and unchanging though we don't know what it is.
dds08
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Pro Sandy said:

Rocag said:

I've never heard the claim that only believers have free will. It seems problematic.
The teaching is roughly that because of the fall, we are slaves to sin an unable of our own free will to please God. When we are born again, we are freed from sin and able to freely do things to please God by the power of the Spirit.
Perhaps when we are born again, we are free to please the Lord. We are free to act in our own best interest as well as the best interest of others.

It's funny how the Jesus said Love the Lord with all your heart soul might and strength. Jesus said love your neighbor as yourself.

Jesus never said plainly, Love yourself. The loving of yourself is implied in His second comment. Loving your neighbor.....

Your neighbor seems to come before yourself. LOL!
Ecce Homo
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I just want to say it's heartening to click on a DDS08 thread and seem him actually conversing with another poster for once.
dds08
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What's wrong with thinking out loud?

I thought everyone thinks out loud at one time or another.
dds08
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Rocag said:

The modern Christian characterization of Satan is a weird one. One of the best and brightest of the angels who decided to revolt against an omnipotent and omniscient being? What intelligent being fights a war they absolutely know they can't win? Someone who doesn't have a choice perhaps? A true believer in the cause they're fighting for? Or the other choice, Satan knows something we don't. Perhaps the true lesson we should learn from Satan is that God can be overcome and defeated.

Or they're all just mythological and allowed to not make sense. Whatever.
Being "on top" and being the "top guy" makes one incredibly susceptible to conceit and vanity.

When the Lord created Lucifer, I suspect he knew Lucifer would go awry, yet decided creating another "life" was worth the risk

What we don't hear about are all the cherubim angels who stayed the path of righteousness and what all they did.

Of course we hear about the Death Angel of Egypt or the Angel Moses wrestled with or even the Angels that were near/in/around the tomb Jesus was placed in. We hear about the Angel that appeared to Joseph when Mary was pregnant with Jesus.
Pro Sandy
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Rocag said:

Implying that a person doesn't have free will to choose whether or not to believe in the first place. That goes a bit beyond just saying the future is set and unchanging though we don't know what it is.
Correct. We do not choose to be born again, it is the work of the Spirit. Birth is such a good image because we can not will ourselves into existence.
UTExan
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dds08 said:

What exactly is in it for him?

How does he benefit from persuading/inducing us to sin?


Who wants a world after a nuclear war? Nothing is any good.


If one believes Satan had dominion over the earth prior to Genesis and that he screwed up in his governance such that it "became" formless and void because "pride"-rebellion/ was found in him, then a lot of theological questions get answered regarding evil. Satan's end is eternal punishment and he is tryin to seek justification for his rebellion or to ameliorate the penalty. He has access to God (as we know from Job) and is free to argue his position. But God cannot sacrifice his standards of holiness in the interest of mercy. So Satan, in a vicious delusion, seeks to afflict the children of men with the fruits of his own rebellion.
dds08
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UTExan said:

dds08 said:

What exactly is in it for him?

How does he benefit from persuading/inducing us to sin?


Who wants a world after a nuclear war? Nothing is any good.


If one believes Satan had dominion over the earth prior to Genesis and that he screwed up in his governance such that it "became" formless and void because "pride"-rebellion/ was found in him, then a lot of theological questions get answered regarding evil. Satan's end is eternal punishment and he is tryin to seek justification for his rebellion or to ameliorate the penalty. He has access to God (as we know from Job) and is free to argue his position. But God cannot sacrifice his standards of holiness in the interest of mercy. So Satan, in a vicious delusion, seeks to afflict the children of men with the fruits of his own rebellion.
Where does it say in the word he was given dominion over the earth or dominion over anything.

From what I read in Genesis, the earth, and everything in it, is the Lord's creation. The Lord owns everything and everyone. He is sovereign.
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