Leviticus

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dds08
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So I'm reading about these sacrifices being done for sins and feeling sorry for all these animals that once had life and are now dead because someone sinned and needed to make an offering of some kind to the Lord.

~sigh~

Was there no other way to pardon sins? Something having to be put to death? It seemed to be the best animals too without blemish. Kinda reminds me of the "first will be last and last first" saying.

I like meat. I like eating it. I hardly ever get to see meat before it's slaughtered and ends up at the table. I pray that I'm able to raise my own meat and poultry myself one day.

If it came down to me having to learn the ways of preparing animals for consumption, I would hunker down and just do my best to learn and finesse it.


I'm sure some days it would be at the back of my mind nagging me if we as humans were meant to kill things and eat them. Even plants, once taken from the ground die a death in a way.

My own thoughts.





PacifistAg
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Quote:

Was there no other way to pardon sins?

Of course. As we learn later, it was never sacrifice that God desired (Hos 6:6; Psa 51:16; Heb 10:6; Isa 1:11). These are an accommodation for a culturally conditioned people that constantly sought to be like the surrounding nations, where animal sacrifice was the norm. As their understanding of God's true nature grew, we learn that He never desired sacrifice. He took no pleasure in them, and that it is "impossible for the blood of bulls and goats to take away sins". (Heb 10:4)
Martin Q. Blank
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RetiredAg said:

Quote:

Was there no other way to pardon sins?

Of course. As we learn later, it was never sacrifice that God desired (Hos 6:6; Psa 51:16; Heb 10:6; Isa 1:11). These are an accommodation for a culturally conditioned people that constantly sought to be like the surrounding nations, where animal sacrifice was the norm. As their understanding of God's true nature grew, we learn that He never desired sacrifice. He took no pleasure in them, and that it is "impossible for the blood of bulls and goats to take away sins". (Heb 10:4)
So how were they pardoned? You said "of course" but then never explained.
dds08
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Was that the Lord's will for our lives as humans to sustain ourselves, sustenance, to kill something an eat it; bring death upon something whether it be plant, animal, seed/fruit and put it in our mouth?
dds08
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The tigers, lions and leopards, and big cats don't have to hunt in Narnia because when they have a war with the Calormenes, dinner comes to them!

Even Reepicheep tasted the sweet water on the Voyage with Prince Caspian. Once they made it to the place beyond the ocean to the Great Father, they needed no food. They had no worries. They felt as if they had never been afraid, or never hungered. Probably didn't have a need for a GI tract either at that point.
PacifistAg
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dds08 said:

Was that the Lord's will for our lives as humans to sustain ourselves, sustenance, to kill something an eat it; bring death upon something whether it be plant, animal, seed/fruit and put it in our mouth?
Well, God didn't say anything about man eating animals until after the flood, so it appears His original plan was for us to not eat animals.
dds08
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Was that what that whole blanket of animals thing was about?
PacifistAg
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dds08 said:

Was that what that whole blanket of animals thing was about?
I'm referring to Genesis 9:2-3:


Quote:

2 The fear of you and the terror of you will be on every beast of the earth and on every bird of the sky; with everything that creeps on the ground, and all the fish of the sea, into your hand they are given.

3 Every moving thing that is alive shall be food for you; I give all to you, as I gave the green plant.

permabull
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Martin Q. Blank
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hypeiv said:

If you feel bad about the animal sacrifice in the Bible, just wait till you get to the story about Jephthah
or Jesus.
dds08
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The wilder beasts and zebras usually run away from the pack of lions; not towards them!




Well in Narnia, the big cats have their work cut out for them at times.
dds08
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RetiredAg said:

Quote:

Was there no other way to pardon sins?

Of course. As we learn later, it was never sacrifice that God desired (Hos 6:6; Psa 51:16; Heb 10:6; Isa 1:11). These are an accommodation for a culturally conditioned people that constantly sought to be like the surrounding nations, where animal sacrifice was the norm. As their understanding of God's true nature grew, we learn that He never desired sacrifice. He took no pleasure in them, and that it is "impossible for the blood of bulls and goats to take away sins". (Heb 10:4)
How does a follower of the Lord guard against wanting things out of conformity; because everyone else is doing it or because everyone else wants it?

How, exactly, does one ask the Lord to desire what The Lord wants you to desire?

Say a prayer! Have faith perhaps!
dds08
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I have a feeling people conform out of jealousy and envy!
agie95
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dds08 said:

So I'm reading about these sacrifices being done for sins and feeling sorry for all these animals that once had life and are now dead because someone sinned and needed to make an offering of some kind to the Lord.


That is exactly how you are supposed to feel for the animal who was giving its life for yours.

Despite the incorrect views of others on here, God did not provide for animal sacrifices due to cultural ways. That is a bunch of hogwash. No where in the text in English nor in Hebrew is that given. While God does not desire sacrifices, b/c He desires for you to live a righteous life, it doesn't mean they did no good. The references given about God not wanting their sacrifices all had to do with the intent of the person giving the sacrifice. If they were just going through the motions then it was an unnecessary sacrifice.

People think sacrifices are over, but they are not. In the Millennial Kingdom there will be animal sacrifices. Read Ezekiel 43-48.
Pro Sandy
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agie95 said:




People think sacrifices are over, but they are not. In the Millennial Kingdom there will be animal sacrifices. Read Ezekiel 43-48.

We'll find out together, but I doubt it.

Hebrews 10:8-9 tells us that the animal sacrifices were done away with.

When he said above, "You have neither desired nor taken pleasure in sacrifices and offerings and burnt offerings and sin offerings" (these are offered according to the law), then he added, "Behold, I have come to do your will." He does away with the first in order to establish the second.

What would these animal sacrifices do?

The purpose of the sacrifice is done. Christ has been sacrificed for our sins and did what no animal sacrifice could do, take away our sins. But when Christ had offered for all time a single sacrifice for sins, he sat down at the right hand of God, waiting from that time until his enemies should be made a footstool for his feet. For by a single offering he has perfected for all time those who are being sanctified. (Heb 10:12-14) We have been made holy not by the blood of animals, but the blood of the Christ. we have confidence to enter the holy places by the blood of Jesus, by the new and living way that he opened for us through the curtain, that is, through his flesh, and since we have a great priest over the house of God, let us draw near with a true heart in full assurance of faith, with our hearts sprinkled clean from an evil conscience and our bodies washed with pure water. (Heb 10:19-22) The animal sacrifices did show the people the ugliness of sin, but do we need to kill animals to understand that when we have the risen Lord and can see the pain our sin caused on Him when we see his hands and feet pierced for our transgression? I hope I respond like Thomas, Then he said to Thomas, "Put your finger here, and see my hands; and put out your hand, and place it in my side. Do not disbelieve, but believe." Thomas answered him, "My Lord and my God!" (John 20:27-28)

I'll take the one sacrifice of Jesus as my atonement for sin, what sanctifies me, and gives me understanding of how egregious my sin is over lambs, goats, and bulls, especially when I find myself in the presence of God.
mesocosm
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RetiredAg said:

Quote:

Was there no other way to pardon sins?

Of course. As we learn later, it was never sacrifice that God desired (Hos 6:6; Psa 51:16; Heb 10:6; Isa 1:11). These are an accommodation for a culturally conditioned people that constantly sought to be like the surrounding nations, where animal sacrifice was the norm. As their understanding of God's true nature grew, we learn that He never desired sacrifice. He took no pleasure in them, and that it is "impossible for the blood of bulls and goats to take away sins". (Heb 10:4)


God never desired sacrifice? Christianity is based on the principles of vicarious redemption, scapegoating and dodging the responsibility for sin by foisting it onto someone else ... via Christ's sacrifice. Pretty despicable stuff
dds08
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So from reading up to Leviticus 15, it seems one of the big ideas is
  • Humans becoming unclean
  • How to make someone clean who was once unclean
  • Purity and Purification

Just being in the Holy Place unclean was a sin to God it seems. The Lord considers a person to be defiling him if a person is in his presence and they are unclean, or impure; Leviticus 15:31.

The Lord said to Moses, take off your sandals for you are indeed on Holy Ground.

White as snow.

Purity seems to be a big deal.

It makes sense though because in order for one to be at their best they must be composed of only good things. A person cannot be at their best, their prime, their true self with evil on them. It just will not work.

It's the price for self-actualization. Purity.

We see it in our value of gold bullion. We want gold to be pure. We go through extreme lengths to get it there. We heat it to extreme temperatures and scrape off the impurities.

We subject gold to fire, and heat.
dds08
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It's like for every living human being, in one dimension, their most good/true self is yearning for their present self to follow the Lord. In a different dimension their most fake, false self is yearning/hoping for them to follow Satan.
Pro Sandy
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dds08 said:

It's like for every living human being, in one dimension, their most good/true self is yearning for their present self to follow the Lord. In a different dimension their most fake, false self is yearning/hoping for them to follow Satan.
That there is a ying yang, two wolves, inside of ourselves isn't really support by the Bible.

Paul writes in Romans:


Quote:

For we have already charged that all, both Jews and Greeks, are under sin, as it is written:

"None is righteous, no, not one;
no one understands;
no one seeks for God.
All have turned aside; together they have become worthless;
no one does good,
not even one."
"Their throat is an open grave;
they use their tongues to deceive."
"The venom of asps is under their lips."
"Their mouth is full of curses and bitterness."
"Their feet are swift to shed blood;
in their paths are ruin and misery,
and the way of peace they have not known."
"There is no fear of God before their eyes."

The imagery of being reborn and being crucified with Christ isn't one of us just choose the goodness in us, but one of being made a new creation.

Jesus tells Nicodemus:


Quote:

"Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God. That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit. Do not marvel that I said to you, 'You must be born again.' The wind blows where it wishes, and you hear its sound, but you do not know where it comes from or where it goes. So it is with everyone who is born of the Spirit."
We don't see that we are just choosing what was already inside of us, but instead being born by God, because sin has corrupted our lives so bad that the only option is to be made new.


Now afterwards, because we are still in the flesh, we do have the struggle between the flesh and the spirit, with the spirit being our true identity and the flesh being our old.
dds08
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Pro Sandy said:

dds08 said:

It's like for every living human being, in one dimension, their most good/true self is yearning for their present self to follow the Lord. In a different dimension their most fake, false self is yearning/hoping for them to follow Satan.
That there is a ying yang, two wolves, inside of ourselves isn't really support by the Bible.

Paul writes in Romans:


Quote:

For we have already charged that all, both Jews and Greeks, are under sin, as it is written:

"None is righteous, no, not one;
no one understands;
no one seeks for God.
All have turned aside; together they have become worthless;
no one does good,
not even one."
"Their throat is an open grave;
they use their tongues to deceive."
"The venom of asps is under their lips."
"Their mouth is full of curses and bitterness."
"Their feet are swift to shed blood;
in their paths are ruin and misery,
and the way of peace they have not known."
"There is no fear of God before their eyes."

The imagery of being reborn and being crucified with Christ isn't one of us just choose the goodness in us, but one of being made a new creation.

Jesus tells Nicodemus:


Quote:

"Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God. That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit. Do not marvel that I said to you, 'You must be born again.' The wind blows where it wishes, and you hear its sound, but you do not know where it comes from or where it goes. So it is with everyone who is born of the Spirit."
We don't see that we are just choosing what was already inside of us, but instead being born by God, because sin has corrupted our lives so bad that the only option is to be made new.


Now afterwards, because we are still in the flesh, we do have the struggle between the flesh and the spirit, with the spirit being our true identity and the flesh being our old.
Pro Sandy you must be willing to admit that all that in bold, or the majority of it, is spoils to a snake; a truly evil person.
Pro Sandy
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dds08 said:

Pro Sandy said:

dds08 said:

It's like for every living human being, in one dimension, their most good/true self is yearning for their present self to follow the Lord. In a different dimension their most fake, false self is yearning/hoping for them to follow Satan.
That there is a ying yang, two wolves, inside of ourselves isn't really support by the Bible.

Paul writes in Romans:


Quote:

For we have already charged that all, both Jews and Greeks, are under sin, as it is written:

"None is righteous, no, not one;
no one understands;
no one seeks for God.
All have turned aside; together they have become worthless;
no one does good,
not even one."
"Their throat is an open grave;
they use their tongues to deceive."
"The venom of asps is under their lips."
"Their mouth is full of curses and bitterness."
"Their feet are swift to shed blood;
in their paths are ruin and misery,
and the way of peace they have not known."
"There is no fear of God before their eyes."

The imagery of being reborn and being crucified with Christ isn't one of us just choose the goodness in us, but one of being made a new creation.

Jesus tells Nicodemus:


Quote:

"Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God. That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit. Do not marvel that I said to you, 'You must be born again.' The wind blows where it wishes, and you hear its sound, but you do not know where it comes from or where it goes. So it is with everyone who is born of the Spirit."
We don't see that we are just choosing what was already inside of us, but instead being born by God, because sin has corrupted our lives so bad that the only option is to be made new.


Now afterwards, because we are still in the flesh, we do have the struggle between the flesh and the spirit, with the spirit being our true identity and the flesh being our old.
Pro Sandy you must be willing to admit that all that in bold, or the majority of it, is spoils to a snake; a truly evil person.
I dont have a clue what you are saying, but the Psalmist is describing all humanity.
dds08
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We are called to know what it is to be those qualities and have those evil, dark, sinister, and diabolic qualities in the name of wisdom.

Without them, we are vulnerable. We are taken advantage of.
dds08
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If Satan was idiot enough to oppose the Father, Spirit, and Son, why not make a fool of Satan.

Let's beat him at his own game and use his tricks against him.

Every time he exposes his weakness, let's learn from his weak, how should I say, "scenes," learn from it, and use it against him every time he rears his hideous head.

We'll be above him and all his evil minions this way. He will not stand a chance.

The human, as gentle as dove; gentleness directed by the Holy Spirit Himself; yet knowing evil greater than Satan; as wise/good/tough as the Holy Spirit.

Snake level infinite.
eidetic78
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babble babble babble babble
dds08
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The very being of The Lord contradicts, the obsolete, the feeble, the needy, the desperate, the scum, the evil.
Marco Esquandolas
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agie95
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You say all this, but don't understand the sacrifices.

Hebrews 10 is quoting Psalm 40.

Are offerings soothing to God or not:

Then Noah built an altar to Adonai and he took of every clean domestic animal and of every clean flying creature and he offered burnt offerings on the altar. 21 When Adonai smelled the soothing aroma, Genesis 8:20-21a

Both Hebrews 10 and Psalm 40 state that God did not desire the burnt and sin offerings, yet we also know He commanded for them to be done. The burnt offerings were offered every day. It was the first and the last offering each day. They plus other offerings are a sweet aroma to God:


Exodus 29:18 - Then you are to offer the whole ram up in smoke on the altar. It is a burnt offering to Adonai, a sweet aroma, an offering made by fire to Adonai.

Exodus 29:25 - hen you are to take them out of their hands and offer them up in smoke on the altar on top of the burnt offering, as a sweet aroma before Adonai, an offering made by fire to Adonai.

Exodus 29:41 - The other lamb you are to offer at dusk, like the grain offering and drink offering of the morning, as a sweet aroma, an offering made by fire to Adonai.

Leviticus 1:9 - But its innards and its legs he is to wash with water. The kohen should burn it all up as smoke on the altar, for a burnt offering made by firea soothing aroma to Adonai.

Leviticus 1:13 - but the innards and the legs he is to wash with water. The kohen is to offer it all, and burn it on the altar. It is a burnt offering, made by firea soothing aroma to Adonai.

Leviticus 1:17 - He should tear it by its wings, but not divide it up. The kohen should burn it upon the altar, on the wood that is on the fire. It is a burnt offering, made by firea soothing aroma to Adonai.

Leviticus 2:2 - He is to bring it to Aaron's sons, the kohanim, and he shall take from there his handful of its fine flour, and of its oil, with all its frankincense. Then the kohen shall burn up as smoke its memorial portion on the altar, an offering made by firea soothing aroma to Adonai.

Leviticus 2:9 - The kohen is to take from the grain offering its memorial portion, and burn it up as smoke on the altar, an offering made by firea soothing aroma to Adonai.

Numbers 15:3 - and you are presenting a fire offering to Adonaia burnt offering or a sacrifice to mark fulfilling a vow, a freewill offering, or during moadimto present a pleasing aroma to Adonai, from the herd or from the flock,

Numbers 18:17 - But the firstborn of the ox, sheep or goat you are not to redeem. They are holy. You are to sprinkle their blood on the altar, and their fat you are to burn as a fire offering, a pleasing aroma to Adonai.

Numbers 29:36 - You are to offer to Adonai a burnt offering, a fire offering, a pleasing aroma, one bull, one ram, and seven male lambs a year old without defect,

There are many more verses which state the same thing. God commanded the sacrifices, which are a sweet aroma to Him, yet it appears you think God did not desire them. So God had Solomon build the Temple ((obviously after David's Psalm 40), which the Shekinah of God resided in, and sacrifice after sacrifice was done based on His word. They were sweet aroma's to Him, yet He did not desire them?

Don't think Ezekiel 40-48 is the Millennial Kingdom (you didn't say it, but others have)? Fine. Let's look at other passages:

Read Zechariah 14...towards the end it says In fact every pot in Jerusalem and in Judah will be Holy to Adonai-Tzva'ot, so that everyone who comes to sacrifice will take them, and cook in them. In that day there will no longer be a Canaanite in the House of Adonai-Tzva'ot.

Clearly Zechariah 14 is future. Yet, sacrifices will continue.

Isaiah 56 still future - v6-7 - Also the foreigners who join themselves to Adonai, to minister to Him,
and to love the Name of Adonai,and to be His servantsall who keep from profaning Shabbat, and hold fast to My covenant7 these I will bring to My holy mountain, and let them rejoice in My House of Prayer. Their burnt offerings and sacrifices will be acceptable on My altar. For My House will be called a House of Prayer for all nations."

So God is going to have something He really did not desire continue to occur in the Millennial Kingdom?

Zechariah 8 still future....v18-23 - not sacrifices, but yet prevalent b/c of the tzitzit - Again the word of Adonai-Tzva'ot came saying: 19 "Thus says Adonai-Tzva'ot, "The fast of the fourth, the fast of the fifth, the fast of the seventh and the fast of the tenth month will become joy, gladness and cheerful moadim. Therefore, love truth and shalom!' 20 Thus says Adonai-Tzva'ot, "Peoples and the inhabitants of many cities will again come. 21 The inhabitants of one city will go to another saying 'Let us go to entreat the favor of Adonai and to seek Adonai-Tzva'ot. I also am going.' 22 Indeed, many peoples and powerful nations will come to seek Adonai-Tzva'ot in Jerusalem, and to entreat the favor of Adonai." 23 Thus says Adonai-Tzva'ot, "In those days it will come to pass that ten men from every language of the nations will grasp the corner of the garment of a Jew saying, 'Let us go with you, for we have heard that God is with you.'"

All the sacrifices point to the Messiah. He was not a literal sacrifice, yet He offered His life for those who would truly repent of their sins. These sacrifices as the ones before, did not take away the sins, yet they all point to the Messiah who did take away all sins...for those who repent.
Martin Q. Blank
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RetiredAg said:

Quote:

Was there no other way to pardon sins?

Of course. As we learn later, it was never sacrifice that God desired (Hos 6:6; Psa 51:16; Heb 10:6; Isa 1:11). These are an accommodation for a culturally conditioned people that constantly sought to be like the surrounding nations, where animal sacrifice was the norm. As their understanding of God's true nature grew, we learn that He never desired sacrifice. He took no pleasure in them, and that it is "impossible for the blood of bulls and goats to take away sins". (Heb 10:4)
I'm still waiting for an answer on this. Of course there was another way to pardon sins. What was it?
dds08
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Marco Esquandolas said:


Leviticus 15:31

In my own words:

"Don't come around me incorrect, because if you do, you will surely die."
dds08
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If the Lord is an omnipotent, omniscient, omnipresent god;

The Lords fushion is everywhere.

The Lords gravity is everywhere.

The sun and all it's pressure, and fushion, and gravity is a complete opposite of THE LORD. Once Jesus comes back, THE total opposite will happen.

Everything will FLIP.

The mountain gets turned upside down.

Now you feel the heat, the fushion, the gravity and the pressure that was once grace/mercy but is now an inescapable inferno.

Once our Sun, "Supernova" I doubt it will take long to wipe all humans off the earth's crust!
dds08
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Pro Sandy said:

agie95 said:




People think sacrifices are over, but they are not. In the Millennial Kingdom there will be animal sacrifices. Read Ezekiel 43-48.

We'll find out together, but I doubt it.

Hebrews 10:8-9 tells us that the animal sacrifices were done away with.

When he said above, "You have neither desired nor taken pleasure in sacrifices and offerings and burnt offerings and sin offerings" (these are offered according to the law), then he added, "Behold, I have come to do your will." He does away with the first in order to establish the second.

What would these animal sacrifices do?

The purpose of the sacrifice is done. Christ has been sacrificed for our sins and did what no animal sacrifice could do, take away our sins. But when Christ had offered for all time a single sacrifice for sins, he sat down at the right hand of God, waiting from that time until his enemies should be made a footstool for his feet. For by a single offering he has perfected for all time those who are being sanctified. (Heb 10:12-14) We have been made holy not by the blood of animals, but the blood of the Christ. we have confidence to enter the holy places by the blood of Jesus, by the new and living way that he opened for us through the curtain, that is, through his flesh, and since we have a great priest over the house of God, let us draw near with a true heart in full assurance of faith, with our hearts sprinkled clean from an evil conscience and our bodies washed with pure water. (Heb 10:19-22) The animal sacrifices did show the people the ugliness of sin, but do we need to kill animals to understand that when we have the risen Lord and can see the pain our sin caused on Him when we see his hands and feet pierced for our transgression? I hope I respond like Thomas, Then he said to Thomas, "Put your finger here, and see my hands; and put out your hand, and place it in my side. Do not disbelieve, but believe." Thomas answered him, "My Lord and my God!" (John 20:27-28)

I'll take the one sacrifice of Jesus as my atonement for sin, what sanctifies me, and gives me understanding of how egregious my sin is over lambs, goats, and bulls, especially when I find myself in the presence of God.
I want to mention that in the book of Leviticus there are 5 different offerings.

Some mandatory:

1. The sin offering (Lev 4:1 - 5:13) This was for unintentional sins and uncleanliness.
2. The guilt offering (Lev 5:14 - 6:7) This was for depriving someone of their rights or desecrating something holy.

Some voluntary:

1. Burnt offering (Lev 1) Signified propitiation of sin, commitment to god
2. Grain offering (Lev 2) It was a thanksgiving offering
3. Fellowship offering (Lev 3) Fellowship with God.

So all in all, if man had never sinned, there is a good chance we would have at least the grain and/or fellowship offering.

Thank God for Sunday school. I would not have been able to make these distinctions of the different sacrifices on my own, through my own personal reading.
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