Ugh...Pat Robertson

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PacifistAg
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8:05a, 10/3/17
AG
Pat Robertson Blames Shooting on People Who 'Disrespect' Trump, National Anthem

A great example of the dangers Americanized Christianity sprinkled with cherry-picked verses from the Scriptures. Of course, this isn't his first time to spew garbage like this, but it's usually the "gays" and others that he tries to scapegoat. NFL kneelers and people that don't support Trump is a new one.
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Macarthur
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9:26a, 10/3/17
Crazy old man.

I'm surprised we haven't heard from old buddy Jeffries.
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schmendeler
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9:41a, 10/3/17
AG
Nah. It's funny but hardly surprising.
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PacifistAg
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In reply to Martin Q. Blank • 9:43a, 10/3/17
AG
Martin Q. Blank said:
schmendeler said:
Martin Q. Blank said:
You get that aroused over his posts?
A chance to trash Pat Robertson? You don't?
Not really an attempt to "trash Pat Robertson". More an attempt to point to the dangers of his way of thinking. When a prominent name among American Christianity essentially places the blame for a horrific tragedy on those who refuse to participate in the state's rituals or don't support his preferred political leader, it should be called out so, at the very least, as to keep his view from being ascribed to those who follow Christ. By linking not participating in the state's rituals to this evil act, he's essentially saying that refusing to stand for these rituals is sinful. Surely you have an issue w/ a Christian leader teaching such nonsense, right?

Do you have a bigger issue with pointing out the dangers of his comments or his actual comments?
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Martin Q. Blank
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In reply to PacifistAg • 9:47a, 10/3/17

Quote:
Not really an attempt to "trash Pat Robertson". More an attempt to point to the dangers of his way of thinking.
Well I get aroused at the chance to point to the dangers of Pat Robertson's way of thinking. Baptists too. And Calvinists. Basically anybody except those who are true followers of Christ.
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kurt vonnegut
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In reply to PacifistAg • 9:52a, 10/3/17
AG
RetiredAg said:
Pat Robertson Blames Shooting on People Who 'Disrespect' Trump, National Anthem

A great example of the dangers Americanized Christianity sprinkled with cherry-picked verses from the Scriptures. Of course, this isn't his first time to spew garbage like this, but it's usually the "gays" and others that he tries to scapegoat. NFL kneelers and people that don't support Trump is a new one.

Trump is a cheap, no-good, rotten, four-flushing, low-life, snake-licking, dirt-eating, inbred, overstuffed, ignorant, blood-sucking, dog-kissing, brainless, dickless, hopeless, heartless, fat-ass, bug-eyed, stiff-legged, spotty-lipped, worm-headed, sack of monkey *****

Hopefully Pat's God won't kill a bunch of people for me saying so.
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PacifistAg
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In reply to Martin Q. Blank • 9:54a, 10/3/17
AG
Martin Q. Blank said:

Quote:
Not really an attempt to "trash Pat Robertson". More an attempt to point to the dangers of his way of thinking.
Well I get aroused at the chance to point to the dangers of Pat Robertson's way of thinking. Baptists too. And Calvinists. Basically anybody except those who are true followers of Christ.
I should have known better and that you didn't have any interest in an actual discussion. Have a great day, brother.
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Martin Q. Blank
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In reply to kurt vonnegut • 9:54a, 10/3/17
kurt vonnegut said:
RetiredAg said:
Pat Robertson Blames Shooting on People Who 'Disrespect' Trump, National Anthem

A great example of the dangers Americanized Christianity sprinkled with cherry-picked verses from the Scriptures. Of course, this isn't his first time to spew garbage like this, but it's usually the "gays" and others that he tries to scapegoat. NFL kneelers and people that don't support Trump is a new one.

Trump is a cheap, no-good, rotten, four-flushing, low-life, snake-licking, dirt-eating, inbred, overstuffed, ignorant, blood-sucking, dog-kissing, brainless, dickless, hopeless, heartless, fat-ass, bug-eyed, stiff-legged, spotty-lipped, worm-headed, sack of monkey *****
Hallelujah! Holy **** ! Where's the Tylenol?
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Jim Hogg is angry
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In reply to Martin Q. Blank • 9:56a, 10/3/17
AG
Martin Q. Blank said:

Quote:
Not really an attempt to "trash Pat Robertson". More an attempt to point to the dangers of his way of thinking.
Well I get aroused at the chance to point to the dangers of Pat Robertson's way of thinking. Baptists too. And Calvinists. Basically anybody except those who are true followers of Christ.





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PacifistAg
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In reply to Jim Hogg is angry • 9:59a, 10/3/17
AG
TampaBayAg said:
Martin Q. Blank said:

Quote:
Not really an attempt to "trash Pat Robertson". More an attempt to point to the dangers of his way of thinking.
Well I get aroused at the chance to point to the dangers of Pat Robertson's way of thinking. Baptists too. And Calvinists. Basically anybody except those who are true followers of Christ.





Pay no mind to MQB. He's simply doing his thing and making up arguments for me.
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dermdoc
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10:31a, 10/3/17
AG
Just so long as there are no Irish. Seriously, as long as you love the Lord and know him, why let these things concern you?
No material on this site is intended to be a substitute for professional medical advice, diagnosis or treatment. See full Medical Disclaimer.
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PacifistAg
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In reply to dermdoc • 10:43a, 10/3/17
AG
dermdoc said:
Just so long as there are no Irish. Seriously, as long as you love the Lord and know him, why let these things concern you?
Because he's a high profile figure and his comments can tarnish the witness of the church? For example, if a high profile figure in American Christianity got up on national tv and started advocating gnosticism, should we concern ourselves with it?
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dermdoc
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In reply to PacifistAg • 10:48a, 10/3/17
AG
A lot of high profile Christians speak their mind on issues. Have you ever considered that some of the liberal folks you cite do the same? And the Pope certainly has possibly alienated a lot of Christians also with his extremely liberal economic and immigration policies.

I personally believe in the Priesthood of the believer and the Holy Sporit which leads me to believe that we should agree to disagree, love God, love man. Don't sweat the small stuff.
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Sapper Redux
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In reply to dermdoc • 10:52a, 10/3/17
dermdoc said:
A lot of high profile Christians speak their mind on issues. Have you ever considered that some of the liberal folks you cite do the same? And the Pope certainly has possibly alienated a lot of Christians also with his extremely liberal economic and immigration policies.

I personally believe in the Priesthood of the believer and the Holy Sporit which leads me to believe that we should agree to disagree, love God, love man. Don't sweat the small stuff.


I would say a prominent spiritual leader demonizing people who disagree with him politically, and conflating that with faith, is not small stuff. There's some history behind folks like that. Can't think of any of it that's good off the top of my head.
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PacifistAg
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In reply to dermdoc • 10:55a, 10/3/17
AG
dermdoc said:
A lot of high profile Christians speak their mind on issues. Have you ever considered that some of the liberal folks you cite do the same? And the Pope certainly has possibly alienated a lot of Christians also with his extremely liberal economic and immigration policies.

I personally believe in the Priesthood of the believer and the Holy Sporit which leads me to believe that we should agree to disagree, love God, love man. Don't sweat the small stuff.
It's not that they speak their mind on issues. If they present something that only tarnishes the witness of the church, then it should be addressed. The church is one body, and what damages one part of the body damages the entire body. This isn't a matter of understandable theological differences, like one person subscribing to penal substitution vs Christus Victor. This was placing blame for the massacre of 58 people on those who refuse to stand during the state's rituals. Is that not such a flawed teaching that it's worthy of being addressed?

I'm also not sure who the "liberals" are that I cite. I imagine the closest is Brian Zahnd, but can't think of anyone else.
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dermdoc
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In reply to Sapper Redux • 10:56a, 10/3/17
AG
How can you read Robertson's quotes and say he "demonized" folks?
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PacifistAg
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In reply to Sapper Redux • 10:56a, 10/3/17
AG

Quote:
I would say a prominent spiritual leader demonizing people who disagree with him politically, and conflating that with faith, is not small stuff.
This.
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PacifistAg
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In reply to dermdoc • 10:57a, 10/3/17
AG
dermdoc said:
How can you read Robertson's quotes and say he "demonized" folks?
When he places blame for the Vegas massacre on people who "disrespect the anthem", is that not "demonizing"? We all agree what happened in Vegas was evil, so since Robertson blames those who refuse to participate in the anthem ritual, he's blaming them for the evil committed. That's pretty "demonizing", IMO.
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dermdoc
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11:02a, 10/3/17
AG
And I actually believe this is more of a political difference, I.e. liberalism vs conservatism, than it is a theological issue. At least as to how we interpret what Robertson is saying.
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dermdoc
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In reply to PacifistAg • 11:04a, 10/3/17
AG
RetiredAg said:
dermdoc said:
How can you read Robertson's quotes and say he "demonized" folks?
When he places blame for the Vegas massacre on people who "disrespect the anthem", is that not "demonizing"? We all agree what happened in Vegas was evil, so since Robertson blames those who refuse to participate in the anthem ritual, he's blaming them for the evil committed. That's pretty "demonizing", IMO.
And in my reading, he never blamed any particular folks. He blamed lack of respect for authorities which is pretty Biblical.
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PacifistAg
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In reply to dermdoc • 11:06a, 10/3/17
AG
dermdoc said:
And I actually believe this is more of a political difference, I.e. liberalism vs conservatism, than it is a theological issue. At least as to how we interpret what Robertson is saying.
Except that he explicitly ties it to his view of God and cherry-picks scripture to support his statements.
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PacifistAg
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In reply to dermdoc • 11:08a, 10/3/17
AG
dermdoc said:
RetiredAg said:
dermdoc said:
How can you read Robertson's quotes and say he "demonized" folks?
When he places blame for the Vegas massacre on people who "disrespect the anthem", is that not "demonizing"? We all agree what happened in Vegas was evil, so since Robertson blames those who refuse to participate in the anthem ritual, he's blaming them for the evil committed. That's pretty "demonizing", IMO.
And in my reading, he never blamed any particular folks. He blamed lack of respectful authorities which is pretty Biblical.
The question was why are these things, such as a massacre of 58 people, happening. He then goes on to blame those who don't respect Trump. He blamed those that don't participate in the state's rituals. But, you just said his comments were political, not theological. Which is it?
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dermdoc
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11:13a, 10/3/17
AG
For whom? Robertson or those of us reading it? I firmly believe that if one is liberal they are going to read his statements totally differently than someone who is conservative.

And that does not make one a "sinner" or a lesser Christian. It just makes one different.
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PacifistAg
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In reply to dermdoc • 11:21a, 10/3/17
AG
dermdoc said:
For whom? Robertson or those of us reading it? I firmly believe that if one is liberal they are going to read his statements totally differently than someone who is conservative.
I'm not a liberal. I'm not a conservative. I'm not reading them through a partisan lens. I'm reading his comments as he said them. He was asked why are these types of things happening, then responded by citing "disrespect of Trump" and "disrespect of the anthem" as an answer to why these things are happening. I'm not sure how you can hear it any other way.


Quote:
And that does not make one a "sinner" or a lesser Christian. It just makes one different.
I assume you hold the same leniency towards LGBT-affirming ministers then, right?
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dermdoc
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In reply to PacifistAg • 11:28a, 10/3/17
AG
RetiredAg said:
dermdoc said:
For whom? Robertson or those of us reading it? I firmly believe that if one is liberal they are going to read his statements totally differently than someone who is conservative.
I'm not a liberal. I'm not a conservative. I'm not reading them through a partisan lens. I'm reading his comments as he said them. He was asked why are these types of things happening, then responded by citing "disrespect of Trump" and "disrespect of the anthem" as an answer to why these things are happening. I'm not sure how you can hear it any other way.


Quote:
And that does not make one a "sinner" or a lesser Christian. It just makes one different.
I assume you hold the same leniency towards LGBT-affirming ministers then, right?


I do not agree with them Biblically but I am going to at least listen to what they say. And I already said I am conservative and read what Robertson said totally different than liberals do. And I still can't find where Robertson blamed the kneeler for the shooting, in fact, I can not even find where he mentioned the kneelers or the NFL. And frankly, I do not care for Pat Robertson. I just wish we could love the Lord and each other, be joyful, and not be bothered by this stuff. Sorry.
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Frok
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11:31a, 10/3/17
AG
Quote:
I assume you hold the same leniency towards LGBT-affirming ministers then, right?


I do. Pat Robertson is a false teacher and so are LGBT-affirming ministers.
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dermdoc
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11:32a, 10/3/17
AG
One more thing. If any church is forced to condone stuff they do not believe in whether it be LGBT stuff, military service, whatever, then I will be upset. Folks like Robertson and Lib religious folks can spout off all they want. And imho, the "church" and Christianity have a lot more eggs to fry than be concerned about what these guys say.
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PacifistAg
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In reply to dermdoc • 11:36a, 10/3/17
AG
dermdoc said:
RetiredAg said:
dermdoc said:
For whom? Robertson or those of us reading it? I firmly believe that if one is liberal they are going to read his statements totally differently than someone who is conservative.
I'm not a liberal. I'm not a conservative. I'm not reading them through a partisan lens. I'm reading his comments as he said them. He was asked why are these types of things happening, then responded by citing "disrespect of Trump" and "disrespect of the anthem" as an answer to why these things are happening. I'm not sure how you can hear it any other way.


Quote:
And that does not make one a "sinner" or a lesser Christian. It just makes one different.
I assume you hold the same leniency towards LGBT-affirming ministers then, right?


I do not agree with them Biblically but I am going to at least listen to what they say. And I already said I am conservative and read what Robertson said totally different than liberals do. And I still can't find where Robertson blamed the kneeler for the shooting, in fact, I can not even find where he mentioned the kneelers or the NFL. And frankly, I do not care for Pat Robertson. I just wish we could love the Lord and each other, be joyful, and not be bothered by this stuff. Sorry.
He blamed the kneelers when he talked about "disrespect to the anthem". That's the false narrative about refusing to stand that's been spread ever since the kneeling started. It is clear to anyone who he's talking about when he references "disrespect to the anthem". And how does a conservative read this differently than a liberal? Why does conservative or liberal even matter? Those aren't the lenses we are to use as Christians.

And I agree that we should love each other and love the Lord. Anything that damages the witness of His church should bother us though. Blaming people who don't share your politics for the evil in Vegas tarnishes the witness of the church. I guess I'm just confused by the fact that you don't think Robertson's comments should be a concern, but calling out his comments does seem to concern you on this thread.
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dermdoc
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11:38a, 10/3/17
AG
Cool. Do you think religious leaders supporting gay marriage damages the church?
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PacifistAg
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In reply to dermdoc • 11:45a, 10/3/17
AG
dermdoc said:
Cool. Do you think religious leaders supporting gay marriage damages the church?
I've long said that if my church performed a same-sex marriage, I'd find a new church. I would sit down and talk to the leadership before leaving to hear their side, but barring something unforeseen, I'd find a new church body. It's similar to how we left our previous church, albeit over another issue. I also believe there is a way of recognizing that sexual orientation is not a choice while also holding to the biblical tenets of Christian marriage. I think the church has missed the mark on singleness and celibacy.

Now, I have no issue with a church leader supporting legal SSM because that's a whole different topic than marriage ordained through the church.
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kurt vonnegut
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In reply to Martin Q. Blank • 11:46a, 10/3/17
P.C. Principal
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12:27p, 10/3/17
I think people are rightfully disgusted by that Robertson said (and by what he's said about past disasters and shootings), but I think what he's said is waaaaaay more offensive than people give him credit for.

He's pretty much attributing this to disrespect to Trump, the anthem, 'murica, etc. A terrorist killing 59 innocent concert-goers from afar, with a root problem in disrespect for "muh flag" and "muh president" and of course, God.

That's repulsive on so many levels. Imagine being in the middle of all those bullets, chaos, and dead bodies. Imagine you're with your wife or girlfriend and she's shot and killed right in front of you. And you take a bullet but survive. You're in shock and completely devastated by it all. Then you turn on the TV and hear an old guy say "well if we'd all start being respectful to Trump...." when talking about this shooting.

Does Robertson even think about what he says? Did Michelle Bachman think about what she said when she said hurricanes and natural disasters are God's punishment for __________? What about Mike Huckabee blaming Sandy Hook on getting rid of school prayer?

It's such a horrible, insulting thing to say.

The notion that 59 people would die in such a horrible, random, gruesome way and many more left suffering because of disrespect for the flag and the president is such a ****ing obscene and offensive thing to say. I know most good Christian people don't agree with that notion, but my God it is so sickening there are big prominent figures like Robertson who still talk like that.

Pat Robertson is a terrible person.
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Aggrad08
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1:33p, 10/3/17
AG
Goaltending for pat Robertson? Way to politics board a thread r&p.
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NonReg85
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In reply to PacifistAg • 2:30p, 10/3/17
AG
RetiredAg said:
Pat Robertson Blames Shooting on People Who 'Disrespect' Trump, National Anthem

A great example of the dangers Americanized Christianity sprinkled with cherry-picked verses from the Scriptures. Of course, this isn't his first time to spew garbage like this, but it's usually the "gays" and others that he tries to scapegoat. NFL kneelers and people that don't support Trump is a new one.
I pretty much disagree with Pat Robertson on most of his commentary so I didn't bother clicking the link. I was just struck by your scapegoating of "Americanized Christianity" as harmful to the church while denouncing Robertson's scapegoating of gays, kneelers, and clintonistas.
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PacifistAg
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In reply to NonReg85 • 2:55p, 10/3/17
AG
NonReg85 said:
RetiredAg said:
Pat Robertson Blames Shooting on People Who 'Disrespect' Trump, National Anthem

A great example of the dangers Americanized Christianity sprinkled with cherry-picked verses from the Scriptures. Of course, this isn't his first time to spew garbage like this, but it's usually the "gays" and others that he tries to scapegoat. NFL kneelers and people that don't support Trump is a new one.
I pretty much disagree with Pat Robertson on most of his commentary so I didn't bother clicking the link. I was just struck by your scapegoating of "Americanized Christianity" as harmful to the church while denouncing Robertson's scapegoating of gays, kneelers, and clintonistas.
I'm confused. How am I scapegoating? It's something that is harmful to the church. It's not the only problem, but it's something that is damaging. Would you disagree? If I said porn is harmful to the church body, I'm not scapegoating porn. I'm not sure how this is much different.
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