Orthodoxy
7th Gen is a Christian
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Last: 6 yr ago by BusterAg
k2aggie07 said:
Orthodoxy
A lot of the Orthodox churches seem nice. The Russian Orthodox Church feels just shy of evil.
There is only one Orthodox Church.
k2aggie07 said:
There is only one Orthodox Church.
Fine. Your Russian coreligionists seem near evil in their disregard for LGBT people, abused women, and Syrian and Ukrainian noncombatants.
Dr. Watson said:k2aggie07 said:
There is only one Orthodox Church.
Fine. Your Russian coreligionists seem near evil in their disregard for LGBT people, abused women, and Syrian and Ukrainian noncombatants.
Sorry I can't speak for individual actions but the witness of the Church is constant and unchanging. Those who disregard it do to their own detriment, whether that's a layman or a bishop. Your personal sense of justice and subjective ideas about good or evil notwithstanding.
The king of double standards. May I ask what you and other desists or atheists have done? This gets so tiresome. Christian and white people are held by you to completely different standards than anyone else. The hatred is real.Dr. Watson said:k2aggie07 said:
There is only one Orthodox Church.
Fine. Your Russian coreligionists seem near evil in their disregard for LGBT people, abused women, and Syrian and Ukrainian noncombatants.
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And Father forgive me for falling for the bait.
No material on this site is intended to be a substitute for professional medical advice, diagnosis or treatment. See full Medical Disclaimer.
no, you don't get to "but what about" this topic. The topic is the Orthodox church, and there is a bunch of vile politics in that organization in certain parts of the world.
So what "vile politics"? It is called principles of the Church. Just because you think something is "okay" for subjective reasons does not make it right on Biblical grounds. I applaud the Orthodox Church for keeping constant Biblical principles.Marco Esquandolas said:
no, you don't get to "but what about" this topic. The topic is the Orthodox church, and there is a bunch of vile politics in that organization in certain parts of the world.
No material on this site is intended to be a substitute for professional medical advice, diagnosis or treatment. See full Medical Disclaimer.
dermdoc said:So what "vile politics"? It is called principles of the Church. Just because you think something is "okay" for subjective reasons does not make it right on Biblical grounds. I applaud the Orthodox Church for keeping constant Biblical principles.Marco Esquandolas said:
no, you don't get to "but what about" this topic. The topic is the Orthodox church, and there is a bunch of vile politics in that organization in certain parts of the world.
It's Biblical to support Vladimir Putin? To push for laws making spousal abuse legal so long as no bones are broken? To support a climate against LGBT Russians that has led to extensive violence against the community and to say nothing about the state-sponsored murders of LGBT Chechians? To support the Russian involvement in Syria and Ukraine and to say nothing about Assad's murder of hundreds of thousands of his own people? To support pushing out non-Russian priests and religious groups in Crimea?
The Russian Orthodox Church has wedded itself to Putin and supports the Russian government above just about anything else so long as it grants them growing power.
dermdoc said:The king of double standards. May I ask what you and other desists or atheists have done? This gets so tiresome. Christian and white people are held by you to completely different standards than anyone else. The hatred is real.Dr. Watson said:k2aggie07 said:
There is only one Orthodox Church.
Fine. Your Russian coreligionists seem near evil in their disregard for LGBT people, abused women, and Syrian and Ukrainian noncombatants.
Your persecution complex is impressive. I've never gone to war against Christians or white people. I have against radical Islam. But mean words about racism and religion is just too much for you.
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I do not feel persecuted at all. But I can observe one's posting history. Have a good night!
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Certain people do not constitute the Church. The bishop by himself does not constitute the Church. Even a high ranking administrative bishop like the patriarch doesn't constitute the Church. Nor does he speak for it or on behalf of it.
So please specify who has done these things. The Church has not, even if certain bishops have.
So please specify who has done these things. The Church has not, even if certain bishops have.
You and I know it does not matter with certain posters, Have a great night and God Bless!k2aggie07 said:
Certain people do not constitute the Church. The bishop by himself does not constitute the Church. Even a high ranking administrative bishop like the patriarch doesn't constitute the Church. Nor does he speak for it or on behalf of it.
So please specify who has done these things. The Church has not, even if certain bishops have.
No material on this site is intended to be a substitute for professional medical advice, diagnosis or treatment. See full Medical Disclaimer.
Hiding behind bureaucracy? That's an interesting approach. The officials leading the Russian branch of the Orthodox Church have done and support all these things. If you wish to formally separate them out, fine. Same difference to me and most people.k2aggie07 said:
Certain people do not constitute the Church. The bishop by himself does not constitute the Church. Even a high ranking administrative bishop like the patriarch doesn't constitute the Church. Nor does he speak for it or on behalf of it.
So please specify who has done these things. The Church has not, even if certain bishops have.
http://www.dw.com/en/is-the-russian-orthodox-church-serving-god-or-putin/a-38603157
https://www.nytimes.com/2016/09/14/world/europe/russia-orthodox-church.html
http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2016/apr/4/vladimir-putin-patriarch-kirill-alliance-puts-athe/
Why did you even bother, in that case?
Dr. Watson said:Hiding behind bureaucracy? That's an interesting approach. The officials leading the Russian branch of the Orthodox Church have done and support all these things. If you wish to formally separate them out, fine. Same difference to me and most people.k2aggie07 said:
Certain people do not constitute the Church. The bishop by himself does not constitute the Church. Even a high ranking administrative bishop like the patriarch doesn't constitute the Church. Nor does he speak for it or on behalf of it.
So please specify who has done these things. The Church has not, even if certain bishops have.
http://www.dw.com/en/is-the-russian-orthodox-church-serving-god-or-putin/a-38603157
https://www.nytimes.com/2016/09/14/world/europe/russia-orthodox-church.html
http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2016/apr/4/vladimir-putin-patriarch-kirill-alliance-puts-athe/
Everyone knows the leadership of an organization has no bearing on the organization's responsibilities as a whole!
Do you really think that the Church is summed up in one person? Five? Fifty?
If a bishop chooses to engage in political corruption, has he corrupted the Church or himself?
If a bishop chooses to engage in political corruption, has he corrupted the Church or himself?
The only leader, head, and high priest of the Orthodox Church is Christ as a matter of doctrine. Hth.
k2aggie07 said:
Do you really think that the Church is summed up in one person? Five? Fifty?
If a bishop chooses to engage in political corruption, has he corrupted the Church or himself?
Almost the entire organizational leadership is involved in this to enhance their own power and legislate their view of morality. At some point, appealing to a philosophy is pretty empty when contrasted with the actions of its adherents.
k2aggie07 said:
The only leader, head, and high priest of the Orthodox Church is Christ as a matter of doctrine. Hth.
Gotcha. It's like the reverse of a mafia marriage arrangement. The bride puts everything in the husband's name to avoid negative ownership consequences.
If as you say flaunt the most basic tenet of this "philosophy" they its adherents?
k2aggie07 said:
If as you say flaunt the most basic tenet of this "philosophy" they its adherents?
Are you saying the Inquisition wasn't the responsibility of the Catholic Church? After all, Jesus is their head and he wouldn't have approved. You're trying to make a distinction without a difference.
What does the Roman church have to do with Orthodoxy?
You sorta kinda look like us.k2aggie07 said:
What does the Roman church have to do with Orthodoxy?
Shedding Light on Dark Legends: The True Story of the Inquisition
By Mr. Matthew Rose
The Truth About the Spanish Inquisition
By Thomas F Madden
The Myth of the Spanish Inquisition
By Ellen Rice
From Nobody Expects the Spanish Inquisition to Be Explained Fairly
A Review of Bearing False Witness: Debunking Centuries of Anti-Catholic History
By Mr. Matthew Rose
The Truth About the Spanish Inquisition
By Thomas F Madden
The Myth of the Spanish Inquisition
By Ellen Rice
From Nobody Expects the Spanish Inquisition to Be Explained Fairly
A Review of Bearing False Witness: Debunking Centuries of Anti-Catholic History
Quote:
Stark next turns his attention to the Spanish Inquisition, today a symbol of oppression and persecution. But as Stark makes clear, by the standards of the day, the Spanish Inquisition was actually fairly innocuous. Torture, for instance, was a standard way of getting confessions at the time, and while the Inquisition employed it, it did so within strict guidelines secular courts often lacked. In fact, the Inquisition's reputation was so much better than that of the secular courts that defendants would try to get their trials moved to an Inquisition venue.
Dr. Watson said:dermdoc said:So what "vile politics"? It is called principles of the Church. Just because you think something is "okay" for subjective reasons does not make it right on Biblical grounds. I applaud the Orthodox Church for keeping constant Biblical principles.Marco Esquandolas said:
no, you don't get to "but what about" this topic. The topic is the Orthodox church, and there is a bunch of vile politics in that organization in certain parts of the world.
It's Biblical to support Vladimir Putin? To push for laws making spousal abuse legal so long as no bones are broken? To support a climate against LGBT Russians that has led to extensive violence against the community and to say nothing about the state-sponsored murders of LGBT Chechians? To support the Russian involvement in Syria and Ukraine and to say nothing about Assad's murder of hundreds of thousands of his own people? To support pushing out non-Russian priests and religious groups in Crimea?
The Russian Orthodox Church has wedded itself to Putin and supports the Russian government above just about anything else so long as it grants them growing power.
Yep, Russian Orthodox church is a nightmare. I worry that some of their political positions are partly why 7th Generation might feel an affinity to it, but I hope not. Maybe he will come back in here and explain himself and whether this whole thread is a joke or not.
jkag89 said:
Shedding Light on Dark Legends: The True Story of the Inquisition
By Mr. Matthew Rose
The Truth About the Spanish Inquisition
By Thomas F Madden
The Myth of the Spanish Inquisition
By Ellen Rice
From Nobody Expects the Spanish Inquisition to Be Explained Fairly
A Review of Bearing False Witness: Debunking Centuries of Anti-Catholic HistoryQuote:
Stark next turns his attention to the Spanish Inquisition, today a symbol of oppression and persecution. But as Stark makes clear, by the standards of the day, the Spanish Inquisition was actually fairly innocuous. Torture, for instance, was a standard way of getting confessions at the time, and while the Inquisition employed it, it did so within strict guidelines secular courts often lacked. In fact, the Inquisition's reputation was so much better than that of the secular courts that defendants would try to get their trials moved to an Inquisition venue.
I'm aware of the revisionist history. The existence of a "Black Legend" doesn't explain away all of the actions of the Catholic Church in Spain and across Europe. Besides my point is not about the Inquisition. It's about ignoring the behavior of an institution by blaming only the members. It's like saying, "Enron is a fine, upstanding corporation with the highest ideals. It's just everyone in charge of Enron who had ethical issues."
Dr. Watson, you seem to be very informed on Russian matters and the church in Russia. Out of curiosity how many times have you been to Russia? I assume 10+ but I'd be interested to find out.Dr. Watson said:k2aggie07 said:
Do you really think that the Church is summed up in one person? Five? Fifty?
If a bishop chooses to engage in political corruption, has he corrupted the Church or himself?
Almost the entire organizational leadership is involved in this to enhance their own power and legislate their view of morality. At some point, appealing to a philosophy is pretty empty when contrasted with the actions of its adherents.
I understood the gist of what were trying to convey with mentioning the Inquisition, still believe you could have found a better way of conveying that idea. .Blithely shrugging off what I posted as "revisionist history" does yourself a disservice.Dr. Watson said:jkag89 said:
Shedding Light on Dark Legends: The True Story of the Inquisition
By Mr. Matthew Rose
The Truth About the Spanish Inquisition
By Thomas F Madden
The Myth of the Spanish Inquisition
By Ellen Rice
From Nobody Expects the Spanish Inquisition to Be Explained Fairly
A Review of Bearing False Witness: Debunking Centuries of Anti-Catholic HistoryQuote:
Stark next turns his attention to the Spanish Inquisition, today a symbol of oppression and persecution. But as Stark makes clear, by the standards of the day, the Spanish Inquisition was actually fairly innocuous. Torture, for instance, was a standard way of getting confessions at the time, and while the Inquisition employed it, it did so within strict guidelines secular courts often lacked. In fact, the Inquisition's reputation was so much better than that of the secular courts that defendants would try to get their trials moved to an Inquisition venue.
I'm aware of the revisionist history. The existence of a "Black Legend" doesn't explain away all of the actions of the Catholic Church in Spain and across Europe. Besides my point is not about the Inquisition. It's about ignoring the behavior of an institution by blaming only the members. It's like saying, "Enron is a fine, upstanding corporation with the highest ideals. It's just everyone in charge of Enron who had ethical issues."
Quote:
I'm aware of the revisionist history. The existence of a "Black Legend" doesn't explain away all of the actions of the Catholic Church in Spain and across Europe. Besides my point is not about the Inquisition. It's about ignoring the behavior of an institution by blaming only the members. It's like saying, "Enron is a fine, upstanding corporation with the highest ideals. It's just everyone in charge of Enron who had ethical issues."
That's the problem.
It's not the members.
If the president of the United States engages in corruption, is the United States corrupt?
I have my personal doubts about the integrity of some aspects of the Moscow Patriarchate. There is a reason that St Tikhon instructed the Russian clergy outside of Russia to organize among themselves (which lead to the founding of ROCOR). There is also very little doubt that during the Soviet rule of Russia elements of the godless communists embedded themselves among the clergy.
What of it? What does this have to do with Christ?
The church can't be corrupted by a corrupt bishop alone. And the Russian Church's witness - that of the clergy and the laity at large - is one of martyrs and confessors who have maintained the faith through a century of terror.
I worked at Enron (kind of, intern)
I am not a crook.
The leadership was.
I am not a crook.
The leadership was.