I assume the majority of atheists don't go to church or Sunday School.

If they do well, kind of a contradiction ey?

How exactly do they develop moral compasses?

Morality is a priviledged set of principles or values, imo, priviledged over other sets. Of course, one could argue there is no set absolutely priviledged over another, only relatively priviledged over another. I'm curious how people deal with those two possibilities without drawing on some conception of god.

Ok well I am just going to check the box E.


Your parents tell you when you are a kid what's right and wrong.

Once you become an adult, you're on your own.

TexAgs91 said:

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dds08 said:

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I assume the majority of atheists don't go to church or Sunday School.

If they do well, kind of a contradiction ey?

How exactly do they develop moral compasses?

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It's simple: Do unto others as you'd have others do unto you. Why is this so hard? Even chimpanzees understand this.

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Then why the hell do chimps always try to bite off your nuts when they escape from their cage???? Monkeys suck

gordo97 said:

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TexAgs91 said:

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dds08 said:

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I assume the majority of atheists don't go to church or Sunday School.

If they do well, kind of a contradiction ey?

How exactly do they develop moral compasses?

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It's simple: Do unto others as you'd have others do unto you. Why is this so hard? Even chimpanzees understand this.

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Then why the hell do chimps always try to bite off your nuts when they escape from their cage???? Monkeys suck

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I see them as very similar to pubescent humans.

dds08 said:

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I assume the majority of atheists don't go to church or Sunday School.

If they do well, kind of a contradiction ey?

How exactly do they develop moral compasses?

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To OP- Yep- those are the typical answers one might expect from folks who do not recognize there is a God and that God calls us to love. And many of their responses are not entirely wrong ( just incomplete) . It is true we are born with a moral compass (conscience). Where we disagree is how this moral compass was created :random dumb luck (laws of science are random without intelligence behind them,could of formed another way (there does not need to be order, but yet there is) or with intelligence design= God.

1) Question If there is No God and we are just a collection of trillion atoms that come together for a limited time for no purpose.

• why do we have empathy? Comment: So what if a monkey has empathy? from a Christian perspective universe was designed by God- everything in universe is " tainted" by God's design.
• Why do we have Gratitude? Who are we thankful too? why are we thankful?
• Why do we feel so good when we help "love" others, especially when we receive nothing in return?

Comment: My take all of these are little clues to existance of God. It is God's way of patting us on the back and saying good job on loving and appreciating the gift we have been given.

2) It is fun to debate and discuss, but the best way to spread Jesus to others, is the way we live our lives. Like the early Christians were called "They Way". The way you live your life with love.

Eventually at some point our atheist brothers will fall, they will struggle (could take years and could take decades, the devil is very patient) and at that time you can point atheist friends to Jesus (God).

There is a God, go to church today and pray. Open invitation to go church with me and my family in West Houston.

I wonder how gordo woukd react if he were caged.

Yes booboo91, I understand that.

I am just curious, that's all.

There is no need for you to speak for the atheists. I wanted their prospective. I just wanted a friendly discussion.



I am under monumental pressure to tell the truth and be honest, even when it hurts or when I would be severely disadvantaged/inconvenienced, because the Father, Spirit, and Son are always watching. I along with my brothers/sisters in Christ answer to the Lord!

The same goes for loving and being kind to people, instead of exploiting/taking advantage of, people/animals/fellow creatures of this earth.


What incentive do atheists have to be kind, loving, and truthful? What is the driving force behind them not taking advantage or using anyone, for their own selfish gain or evil intentions?

Who do they answer to? If they answer to no one, freedom goes so far till you start breaking laws. I doubt man made laws dictate the direction for their life.

Unless they do their best to live within the man made laws, then I guess that's their life. Perhaps they rely on what they are innately attracted to/drawn to for inspiration.

I could respect their decision making if they act in a way that allows them to progress in a fashion that leaves them in a better predicament than in the past. They have goals in certain areas and they try to build something worthwhile, be it friendships, wealth, political power, vocational, intellectual, or philanthropic. Once we get here though, purpose becomes a big question. Why? Why do these things.

My direction comes from the Lord.

How do you go about deciding what your goals are? Are your goals for good or for evil?

Once you make up your mind and decide what your goals are, be they are evil or good, how do you decide whether you will use a good means or evil means of attaining them?


Then again, I am a goal oriented person. Not everyone is. Some are people oriented, some are wealth, others are intellectually oriented and some like rules/routine/order.


Some people are lifestyle oriented instead of goal oriented.


I digress. Let's get back to the discussion. With all that said, how do atheists do life in general?

Just a reminder, this is an open discussion. No need to be ashamed of evil.

Us Christians have had leaders to temporarily follow Satan ourselves now. Leaders who may have followed their own fleshly desires.


King David indeed committed adultery and had someones husband killed to cover up the sin till Nathan approached him. He paid dearly for it (unfortunately/consequently the resulting child to come of the adultery, his/her life was cut short), however, I'm sure the Lord forgave him. I feel sad for the baby though.




No one is perfect. If you do evil, you do evil. No judging anyone.

Now that I'm giving it thought though, I find it awfully coincidental that, from a christian looking out, our faith seems to coexist awfully well with the United States laws. Even Jesus said, give to Caesar what is Caesars's.

If you do what the Lords wants you to do, then you would hardly if ever break and US laws. Excluding perhaps Jim Crow or superior/subordinate (military) laws.

dds08 said:

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What incentive do atheists have to be kind, loving, and truthful? What is the driving force behind them not taking advantage or using anyone, for their own selfish gain or evil intentions?

Who do they answer to? If they answer to no one, freedom goes so far till you start breaking laws. I doubt man made laws dictate the direction for their life.

Unless they do their best to live within the man made laws, then I guess that's their life. Perhaps they rely on what they are innately attracted to/drawn to for inspiration.

I could respect their decision making if they act in a way that allows them to progress in a fashion that leaves them in a better predicament than in the past. They have goals in certain areas and they try to build something worthwhile, be it friendships, wealth, political power, vocational, intellectual, or philanthropic. Once we get here though, purpose becomes a big question. Why? Why do these things.

My direction comes from the Lord.

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My 2 cents:
1) Point #1- We are all unique and different and learn differently, one size does not fit all (this applies to everyone Christian to Atheist). We learn at different speeds. I know personally it was not until I had kids of my own in 30s and had some maturity that I really started focusing and understanding Catholic faith and God.

Would say Atheist see nothing wrong in how they are living. I know personally I acted as a selfish jackass in my teens and 20s and while doing so thought I was a good guy. It was only when I realized how I should really be living my life (compared my self to Jesus), Did it hit me to repent and change my ways.

Example: Amazing Grace- John Newton (bad dude, slave trader) probably did not realize who he was until he had time to reflect and compare himself to Jesus. " Who saved a wretch like me"

Question-I wonder if Hitler,Stalin,Pablo Escobar ever thought they were bad guys? Easy for us to fall into trap and believe we are the gods and get into false worship of self- ME, ME, ME, it is all about ME. This is why it is important to go to church and pray, keeps us in proper alignment.

2) Point #2 - St. Paul, says even the ignorant, nonbelievers have right and wrong written on our heart. " Even Gentiles, who do not have God's written law, show that they know his law when they instinctively obey it, even without having heard it." Romans 2:14

3) Point #3- Agree with your final point- "my direction comes from the Lord". Christians have a huge advantage, as does the Western Christian culture (way the truth and the life) of having Jesus as our Lord as our goal on how to live our life.

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1) Point #1- We are all unique and different (example finger prints) we act and respond differently (one size does not fit all). This applies to both Atheist and Christians alike. Some atheist/ Christians are blessed with a pleasant and good natured personality and others are not.

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That's why I mentioned the different types of people in my earlier post. Some people are people oriented, intellectually oriented, wealth/ambition, relationships, rules/routine/order, goal oriented, lifestyle oriented. Some are stubborn, or grumpy, some are kind. There are all flavors/colors out there.

Quote:

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2) Point #2 - St. Paul, even the ignorant, nonbelievers we have right and wrong written on our heart. " Even Gentiles, who do not have God's written law, show that they know his law when they instinctively obey it, even without having heard it." Romans 2:14

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I know the law of the Lord, yet not everyone believes or is saved. So does the Lord's laws apply to the unsaved as well? I'm sure it does, however I'm sure there are exceptions.

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I wonder if Hitler,Stalin,Pablo Escobar ever thought they were bad guys? Easy for us to fall into trap and believe we are the gods and get into false worship of self- ME, ME, ME, it is all about ME. This is why it is important to go to church and pray, keeps us in proper alignment.

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This is why I mentioned evil.

For the discussion's sake I will even admit that I have done evil. I have lied, cheated and stolen even when I knew it was wrong and I was indeed a born again believer. I have done more than my fair share of fornicating, and lusting over women. I'm no pedo. I've succumbed to bad habits and compulsiveness. I'm not proud of my sin, yet I have realized that I am forgiven and I do my best to repent.

Truth is, not one man may boast to another. Again, only Jesus was perfect/may boast if He so chooses to, which I doubt he would, but He could!

I'm not ashamed of my sin, nor am I proud of it either.

I'm somewhere in between. I regret sinning and turning my back on Him.

Life is a journey. Along the way I believe all humans experiment.


We all earn our stripes, through our experiences.

AstroAg17 said:

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All of the behaviors you mentioned are evolutionarily advantageous. Research the evolution of empathy and kin selection and you'll find answers to all three of your questions.

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1) Yep, I know everything whether true or not can be wrapped up into the evolution response. Typical response: It is just the way we evolved. Some traits survived and others did not. Pretty weak in my book, as I know my responses are to you that God did it.

As I see it, they are the catch all answers- God did it (intelligent design), or Evolution (no intelligence just the way it unfolded).

2) Help me understand gratitude. why should we feel grateful? For what? to whom?

dds08 said:

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2) Point #2 - St. Paul, even the ignorant, nonbelievers we have right and wrong written on our heart. " Even Gentiles, who do not have God's written law, show that they know his law when they instinctively obey it, even without having heard it." Romans 2:14 - I know the law of the Lord, yet not everyone believes or is saved. So does the Lord's laws apply to the unsaved as well? I'm sure it does, however I'm sure there are exceptions.

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I think there are different levels of truth and there is the fullness of truth. So all people who obey the Golden rule- written on heart- Christian, JEw, Muslim, Atheist are loving neighbor- get that right. But when you fail to recognize there is a God, Jesus, you get that wrong.

We need to strive for fullness of truth. There are consequences of sin, of bad behavior.

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This is why I mentioned evil.

For the discussion's sake I will even admit that I have done evil. I have lied, cheated and stolen even when I knew it was wrong and I was indeed a born again believer. I have done more than my fair share of fornicating, and lusting over women. I'm no pedo. I've succumbed to bad habits and compulsiveness. I'm not proud of my sin, yet I have realized that I am forgiven and I do my best to repent.

Truth is, not one man may boast to another. Again, only Jesus was perfect/may boast if He so chooses to, which I doubt he would, but He could!

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Agreed- we have advantage in Jesus not only as Lord but also as role model. Jesus is a compass to help us stay on track, also advantage of church and fellowship- people to slap you up the head and make you stay on track.

Aggrad08 said:

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If you found out with certainty today that the Christian faith is demonstrably false to an absolute certainty. What sins would you commit tomorrow?

I'd wager none that truly harmed your fellow man. And especially your loved ones. The idea that religion solely dictates morality flies in the face of history which shows us a great many cultures and moral views all with the same religions dominating those cultures.

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Aggrad,

I kind of agree with your comments but then don't. Today we can easily see how our society says it is now ok to:

1) Looking at porn and sleep around
2) Don't get married, have out of wedlock kids and don't take care of them.
3) Abort (murder your baby)- after all it is your choice!
4) "Get your unfair share". The logic is everyone else is doing it. This gets you into lying and cheating (easy to cheat on your taxes- everyone else does it).
5) Then you watch crap internet/tv and start coveting other peoples stuff.

I heard this story from Ed Young at 2nd Baptist. He said the devil is sneaky. If he asked you to immediately to rob a bank, you would laugh at him. But he gets you in small baby steps (the devil is patient). He gets you to start stealing a few matierals at work ( in your mind you justify it: the company is rich they can afford it) , you start lying on your time sheet at work and expenses (again you justifying your bad behavior, after all you are a good guy, they won't care).

Pretty soon you are robbing the bank.

Aggrad08 said:

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If you found out with certainty today that the Christian faith is demonstrably false to an absolute certainty. What sins would you commit tomorrow?

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I would probably be a victim of endless compulsiveness of my own fleshy desires and a victim of all the great evils of the flesh of the people I had to grow up with who I had no choice to be around. The kind of evil that haunts you for the entire duration of your life.

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I'd wager none that truly harmed your fellow man. And especially your loved ones.

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I would make an Idol out of life and worldly pleasures and desires. I would follow human intelligence of horoscopes and play the lotto and place faith in gambling and alcohol and sex.

Quote:

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The idea that religion solely dictates morality flies in the face of history which shows us a great many cultures and moral views all with the same religions dominating those cultures.

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Please reword.



All in all the second quote is kind of off in my opinion. I do not agree with your assumption that some sins, ( be it personal and committed in the absence of people, meant solely for a solitary person) may not affect others. I believe all sins affect others. When I lust over a woman, though it may be in the act of watching porn, that is using that woman and devaluing her reputation, even if she consents to it. Moreover, that hurts the companionship I may have with all women in my life and all women I may meet in my future. Objectification of women is not something that should be taken lightly, casually.

The same applies with other evils I'm sure.

The problem with following humans is that human knowledge and direction is fallible.

I wouldn't want to place my direction, life, and freedom in my own knowledge, let alone some other human.

Yes I know this sounds crazy, but I'm being honest.


You wanna know where my best thinking got me?

Into compulsiveness of pornography and alcohol.


I figured out real quick that my thinking is flawed and could get me into a hole so deep, progress is lost. There is no hope for progress or freedom in that life.

Advancement and the capacity to reach human potential and self-actualization is incredibly diminished.

THIS is what I fear most. Not advancing. Plateauing and degrading.

Forget faith and atheism and beliefs for a second.

IF all this doesn't speak to you as a human, I dunno what does/will.

kurt vonnegut said:

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Once upon a time, I found booboos posts to be well meaning nonsense. But it's Clearly all self righteous, holier than thou bull*****

Watch out for that porn, aggrad! Next thing you know you'll be robbing banks and then committing genocide like hitler.

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Easy there kurt, question was asked what sins would we commit if we were not a Christian.

And my answer is just look just at our modern society. And then add to that, it typically starts in baby steps.

Question- So do you think porn is a good thing?

Aggrad08 said:

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If you found out with certainty today that the Christian faith is demonstrably false to an absolute certainty. What sins would you commit tomorrow?

I'd wager none that truly harmed your fellow man. And especially your loved ones. The idea that religion solely dictates morality flies in the face of history which shows us a great many cultures and moral views all with the same religions dominating those cultures.

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Aggrad, I could spin this the other way around.

From the outside looking in, I'm pondering how would your actions change if it was certain that there was a omnipotent, omnipresent, omniscient being out there who was the supreme ruler of the universe watching you.


For a moment here I'm just realizing that there is a chance that you're living life in a world/galaxy/universe and perhaps multiverse with the fatal notion there is indeed no supreme ruler.

So in the grand hierarchy and scheme of things, you are your own person. You answer to no one and you are kind of your own master/god. You believe this, however, from my perspective, it's not true. Though we are free and you're indeed free to believe what you want. Yet you cannot control your own fate.

Show me the man that has lived as long as he has wanted to. Show me the 200 year old man alive today!

When I lived in California none of the religious people I knew went to church. Now that I'm on the east coast, all the atheists I know go to church regularly.

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Easy there kurt, question was asked what sins would we commit if we were not a Christian.

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You would commit essentially the same sins either way. Is there a sin that no Christian or non-Christian has ever done?

booboo91 said:

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Question- So do you think porn is a good thing?

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In many ways, I think it's an unhealthy thing. But, I don't think it's an inherently immoral thing.

booboo91 said:

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Easy there kurt, question was asked what sins would we commit if we were not a Christian.

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Right, and your response was to point to the worst of humanity and blame it on not having enough God. To which I correctly, I believe , criticized you for.