Happy is the one who has not walked in the advice of the wicked,
nor stood in the way of sinners,
nor sat in the seat of scoffers.

2 But his delight is in the Torah of Adonai,
and on His Torah he meditates day and night.

3 He will be like a planted tree over streams of water,
producing its fruit during its season.
Its leaf never droops
but in all he does, he succeeds.

4 The wicked are not so.
For they are like chaff that the wind blows away.

5 Therefore the wicked will not stand during the judgment,
nor sinners in the congregation of the righteous.

6 For Adonai knows the way of the righteous,
but the way of the wicked leads to ruin.

Who are the wicked?

Psalm 119:155 - Salvation is far from the wicked,
for they do not seek after Your decrees.

Delight is God's Torah, meditate on it! It is the way of the righteous!

I'm just thrilled that faith in Christ came and we are no longer under a tutor (Law). Also, that I'm a descendant of Abraham because I have been baptized into and belong to Christ.

KJV and NIV both say "Law" instead of Torah.

What version do you have?

Is the Bible a living Bible or a dead Bible. God said His Torah is forever! Did He not mean it?

looks like TLV

Tree of Life - TLV

This version uses the transliterate words for certain words. Like Torah and Adonai. Funny, you didn't ask about Adonai, but you your flesh is at war with...

agie95 said:

---

Delight is God's Torah, meditate on it! It is the way of the righteous!

---

not saying you are wrong, per se but:

2 Corinthians 5:
16 So from now on we recognize no one according to the flesh. Even though we have known Messiah according to the flesh, yet now we no longer know Him this way. 17 Therefore if anyone is in Messiah, he is a new creation. The old things have passed away; behold, all things have become new. 18 Now all these things are from God, who reconciled us to Himself through Messiah and gave us the ministry of reconciliation. 19 That is, in Messiah God was reconciling the world to Himself, not counting their trespasses against them; and He has entrusted the message of reconciliation to us. 20 We are therefore ambassadors for Messiah, as though God were making His appeal through us. We beg you on behalf of Messiah, be reconciled to God. 21 He made the One who knew no sin to become a sin offering on our behalf, so that in Him we might become the righteousness of God.

One of my favorite from the Scottish Psalter set to St. Peter tune.

1 That man hath perfect blessedness,
who walketh not astray
In counsel of ungodly men,
nor stands in sinners' way,

2 Nor sitteth in the scorner's chair:
But placeth his delight
Upon God's law, and meditates
on his law day and night.

3 He shall be like a tree that grows
near planted by a river,
Which in his season yields his fruit,
and his leaf fadeth never:

4 And all he doth shall prosper well
The wicked are not so;
But like they are unto the chaff,
which wind drives to and fro.

5 In judgment therefore shall not stand
such as ungodly are;
Nor in th' assembly of the just
shall wicked men appear.

6 For why? the way of godly men
unto the Lord is known:
Whereas the way of wicked men
shall quite be overthrown.

This prompted me to read some Galatians this morning. Man, what a great letter that is.

If you keep reading the next chapter you will understand why Paul included the word "might become the righteousness of God".

v14 - Do not be unequally yoked with unbelievers. For what partnership is there between righteousness and lawlessness?

People think believers or unbelievers means you believe and that is good. That is not the mindset. For believing is never enough. For even demons believe. One must combine faith with works. For Faith without works is dead. Now, works are mitzvot or deeds of following the commandments.

Hence v14, Paul equates unbelievers with lawlessness. Which is what John says as well in 1 John 2: 3Now we know that we have come to know Him by thisif we keep His commandments. 4 The one who says, "I have come to know Him," and does not keep His commandments is a liar, and the truth is not in him. 5 But whoever keeps His word, in him the love of God is truly made perfect. We know that we are in Him by this 6 whoever claims to abide in Him must walk just as He walked.

Since unbelievers are equated with lawlessness, believers are those who keep the Torah.

How did Yeshua walk? He followed Torah. Therefore you should.

Are you going to discuss something or be a smart elic? If you think Paul was teaching against Torah then you don't know Paul.

agie95 said:

---

Are you going to discuss something or be a smart elic? If you think Paul was teaching against Torah then you don't know Paul.

---

How am I being a "smart elic"? I have posted twice. First with a reference from Galatians. Then just a thought I had about how awesome Galatians is while reading Galatians. You've said before that you won't engage me anymore, so I wasn't expecting a discussion with you. If you want to believe a person is "wicked" because they eat shrimp, go right ahead. I would disagree with your interpretation, but we've been down that road before brother.

Don't call me your brother, b/c I ain't anything of the sort.

You say you simply posted that Galatians was awesome on a post about Torah. Everyone knows full well the mocking nature that was in your post. Don't act innocent.

agie95 said:

---

Don't call me your brother, b/c I ain't anything of the sort.

You say you simply posted that Galatians was awesome on a post about Torah. Everyone knows full well the mocking nature that was in your post. Don't act innocent.

---

Yes, Galatians is awesome. Your post prompted me to read Galatians this morning. It wasn't "mocking". Sure, it may be signaling that I disagree with your interpretation, but disagreement isn't mocking.

And if you place your faith in Christ Jesus, you're my brother.

No you are wrong. Yeshua said I never knew you, depart from me you workers of lawlessness.

The one who says, "I have come to know Him," and does not keep His commandments is a liar, and the truth is not in him. 1 John 2:4

Truth is Torah.

agie95 said:

---

No you are wrong. Yeshua said I never knew you, depart from me you workers of lawlessness.

---

Okay. You're more than welcome to believe that Christ doesn't know me because I eat shrimp. I disagree, and continue to put my faith and trust in my Savior and serve Him daily. Because of Him, I am no longer under a tutor.

When someone is under a tutor they learn something. After the tutor is gone, do they forget everything they learned? Or do they continue to apply what they have learned? Besides you misunderstand who/what the tutor is.

You can't really discuss something with any intelligence. More smart elic comments.

Being smart elic is showing love? I am not angry. I get frustrated with stupidity.

Debate 1:

1. The law is of no use to a Christian.
2. The law is a rule of life to a Christian, but laws according to the Levitical priesthood/worship and Israel nation-state have been abrogated.
3. The entire law from the previous will/testament are applicable to the new will/testament.

Debate 2:

A. Observance of the law has no bearing on a person's salvation.
B. Observance of the law is evidence of salvation.
C. Observance of the law justifies a person in the sight of God.

I take it agie95 is 3B and RetiredAg is 1A?

chuckd said:

---

Debate 1:

1. The law is of no use to a Christian.
2. The law is a rule of life to a Christian, but laws according to the Levitical priesthood/worship and Israel nation-state have been abrogated.
3. The entire law from the previous will/testament are applicable to the new will/testament.

Debate 2:

A. Observance of the law has no bearing on a person's salvation.
B. Observance of the law is evidence of salvation.
C. Observance of the law justifies a person in the sight of God.

I take it agie95 is 3B and RetiredAg is 1A?

---

I wouldn't say the law is of no use to a Christian. All Scripture is useful and points to Christ. While we are no longer under the law, there are aspects that can certainly be useful for us today. But it's all summed up with loving God w/ all our heart, soul and mind and loving our neighbors as ourselves. And I also believe that, while works aren't a requirement for salvation, they are evidence of salvation. Faith without works is dead. Works don't save, but they are the natural outpouring of one's faith. So I don't even know that I'd fit easily even in the categories above.

dermdoc said:

---

I always thought it was smart alec.

---

I googled and it looks like it can also be 'smart aleck'. The term always makes me think of Alex Trebek though.

For me it is correct. If you love God, you will follow His commandments.

Quote:

---

While we are no longer under the law, there are aspects that can certainly be useful for us today. But it's all summed up with loving God w/ all our heart, soul and mind and loving our neighbors as ourselves.

---

"we are no longer under the law" can mean two things:
1. We are no longer under the curse of the law: do this and live, else die.
2. We are no longer under the law as a rule of faith and practice. Either there is a new law that takes its place, or the entirety of it has been abolished.

Also, if the law is summarized in two commandments, where are the specific commandments?

agie95 said:

---

For me it is correct. If you love God, you will follow His commandments.

---

Then it seems you and RetiredAg agree on this point and should focus on Debate 1. Is there a new testament? Does it include doing away with old worship? Where is the tabernacle? Must ministers come after the order of Aaron? Are there political laws related to Israel as a nation-state that are applicable to all Christian nation-states? etc.

This seems like quarreling!

God don't like his believers to be quarreling!

It's amazing how no one has mentioned obedience.

Obedience to the Lord is a world in an of itself in a way.

Obedience. Intelligence, Creativity, Strength and Power, Direction & Management, Safety, Communication & Relationship, Life, the fruit of the Spirit

All facets. Pardon my babbling.

I digress.

Obedience is the whole question. Obedient to what? Christians say not to Torah. That is a problem.

agie95 said:

---

Obedience is the whole question. Obedient to what? Christians say not to Torah. That is a problem.

---

Honest question. What would change for you regarding the bible if you believed Christ was/is God? How would you interpretation of older scriptures be altered? My understanding is that you believe Christ was a prophet, but not God or the son of God?

agie95 said:

---

Obedience is the whole question. Obedient to what? Christians say not to Torah. That is a problem.

---

Obedience does not bring salvation. Faith does.

americathegreat1492 said:

---

agie95 said:

---

Obedience is the whole question. Obedient to what? Christians say not to Torah. That is a problem.

---

Honest question. What would change for you regarding the bible if you believed Christ was/is God? How would you interpretation of older scriptures be altered? My understanding is that you believe Christ was a prophet, but not God or the son of God?

---

If the Messiah was God in the flesh, nothing would change. Well, that is not entirely true but that is a different topic. Nothing would change as regard to what God expects of people.

The Messiah is a manifestation of God. While He is considered a prophet, He is an agent of God so to speak. We are told that when you see Joseph, it was as if you were looking at Pharaoh. You were to follow his word as if Pharaoh said the decree. Even Pharaoh followed Joseph's words. Joseph is a type. That happened for a reason. We were told those things for a reason. When we see the Messiah it is as if we are looking at God. He was sinless. He called people to repent. Turn from sins. Yet people today use God's grace as if it is a license to sin.

dermdoc said:

---

agie95 said:

---

Obedience is the whole question. Obedient to what? Christians say not to Torah. That is a problem.

---

Obedience does not bring salvation. Faith does.

---

Faith without works is dead. In other words you have no faith. I never said obedience brings salvation, neither does the Torah or the prophets.