Catholic Church Welcoming Aliens?

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UTExan
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Quote:

NASA confirmed the discovery of seven new exoplanets not too far from Earth, bringing humanity one step closer to finding other livable planets and, possibly, extraterrestrial life. Does Catholicism have the means to survive such a discovery? The pope, experts and theologians say yes.

A Crisis of Faith
So, just as a thought exercise, suppose a flying saucer landed in St. Peter's Square during the pope's weekly general audience. What would that mean for the Catholic faith?
As it happens, Pope Francis is three years ahead of us.
"If an expedition of Martians arrives and some of them come to us and if one of them says: 'Me, I want to be baptized!', what would happen?" the pope said during morning Mass in May of 2014.
Simple. For the pope of the peripheries, no matter how distant they may be, the Church does not turn others away.

... According to a 2011 study for the Royal Society, about 90 percent of believers felt that if intelligent life were to be discovered on other planets, they would not have a crisis of faith.

The truth is that religions, being in the business of understanding the place of human beings in the world, are naturally drawn to wonder at the immensity of the sky and the vastness of space.

Speaking to the Pontifical Academy of Sciences in 1996 Pope John Paul II said "truth cannot contradict truth," insisting that the Catholic Church had nothing to fear from scientific advancement and its challenges, and vice versa.

He was quoting Pope Leo XIII, who in 1891 had reestablished the historic Specula Vaticana, the Vatican Observatory. The Latin Dictionary issued by the Holy See even includes the acronym RIV, Res Inesplicata Volantes, meaning Unexplained Flying Object, or UFO.

https://cruxnow.com/global-church/2017/02/23/catholicism-handle-discovery-extraterrestrial-life/
Of course they would welcome alien life. But, a contrary view:

Martin Q. Blank
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We were all once aliens. Some still are.

So then you are no longer strangers and aliens, but you are fellow citizens with the saints and members of the household of God,

They are darkened in their understanding, alienated from the life of God because of the ignorance that is in them, due to their hardness of heart.

And you, who once were alienated and hostile in mind, doing evil deeds,
PacifistAg
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AG
Ol' Tom Horn. BTW, if there is alien life out there, why wouldn't we welcome them? Were they not created by God as well?
“Conquer men by your gentle kindness, and make zealous men wonder at your goodness. Put the lover of justice to shame by your compassion."
--St Isaac the Syrian
Martin Q. Blank
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Cows were also created by God and I welcomed them to my dinner plate tonight.
UTExan
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RetiredAg said:

Ol' Tom Horn. BTW, if there is alien life out there, why wouldn't we welcome them? Were they not created by God as well?
Well,that is an interesting question but I think the telling point would be their opinion of Jesus Christ and whether or not they claimed his blood to cover their sins.
PacifistAg
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AG
UTExan said:

RetiredAg said:

Ol' Tom Horn. BTW, if there is alien life out there, why wouldn't we welcome them? Were they not created by God as well?
Well,that is an interesting question but I think the telling point would be their opinion of Jesus Christ and whether or not they claimed his blood to cover their sins.
How would that be "telling"? There are humans alive that don't believe or don't even know about Jesus. It doesn't mean we don't welcome them.
“Conquer men by your gentle kindness, and make zealous men wonder at your goodness. Put the lover of justice to shame by your compassion."
--St Isaac the Syrian
UTExan
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RetiredAg said:

UTExan said:

RetiredAg said:

Ol' Tom Horn. BTW, if there is alien life out there, why wouldn't we welcome them? Were they not created by God as well?
Well,that is an interesting question but I think the telling point would be their opinion of Jesus Christ and whether or not they claimed his blood to cover their sins.
How would that be "telling"? There are humans alive that don't believe or don't even know about Jesus. It doesn't mean we don't welcome them.
I would be highly suspicious of the intent of an alien civilization that would want to make contact with us.
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PacifistAg
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UTExan said:

RetiredAg said:

UTExan said:

RetiredAg said:

Ol' Tom Horn. BTW, if there is alien life out there, why wouldn't we welcome them? Were they not created by God as well?
Well,that is an interesting question but I think the telling point would be their opinion of Jesus Christ and whether or not they claimed his blood to cover their sins.
How would that be "telling"? There are humans alive that don't believe or don't even know about Jesus. It doesn't mean we don't welcome them.
I would be highly suspicious of the intent of an alien civilization that would want to make contact with us.
Understandable. Just as tribes deep in the Amazon or in the New World hundreds of years ago were suspicious of the intent of missionaries that made contact with them. I'm still not sure why their opinion of Jesus would be telling though. Wouldn't this be an opportunity to share that knowledge with them?

Sorry, maybe I'm missing what point you're trying to make.
“Conquer men by your gentle kindness, and make zealous men wonder at your goodness. Put the lover of justice to shame by your compassion."
--St Isaac the Syrian
PacifistAg
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AstroAg17 said:

What would y'all say if the aliens had had their own Messiah a few thousand years ago? Do you expand the trinity to a foursome?
I'd just assume it's the same Messiah. I think the more interesting question is what would it be like if the alien race never had their "Adam eating the apple" moment.
“Conquer men by your gentle kindness, and make zealous men wonder at your goodness. Put the lover of justice to shame by your compassion."
--St Isaac the Syrian
UTExan
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AstroAg17 said:

What would y'all say if the aliens had had their own Messiah a few thousand years ago? Do you expand the trinity to a foursome?
Call me a conspiracy theorist but that is exactly what I suspect they would want...and more.
UTExan
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RetiredAg said:

AstroAg17 said:

What would y'all say if the aliens had had their own Messiah a few thousand years ago? Do you expand the trinity to a foursome?
I'd just assume it's the same Messiah. I think the more interesting question is what would it be like if the alien race never had their "Adam eating the apple" moment.
Unless one alien was present at that moment in the Garden...

I presume since you commented on this that you are aware of Harvard medical researcher Dr. John Mack and his work on the abduction phenomenon?
PacifistAg
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AG
UTExan said:

AstroAg17 said:

What would y'all say if the aliens had had their own Messiah a few thousand years ago? Do you expand the trinity to a foursome?
Call me a conspiracy theorist but that is exactly what I suspect they would want...and more.

Who would want what?
“Conquer men by your gentle kindness, and make zealous men wonder at your goodness. Put the lover of justice to shame by your compassion."
--St Isaac the Syrian
PacifistAg
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UTExan said:

RetiredAg said:

AstroAg17 said:

What would y'all say if the aliens had had their own Messiah a few thousand years ago? Do you expand the trinity to a foursome?
I'd just assume it's the same Messiah. I think the more interesting question is what would it be like if the alien race never had their "Adam eating the apple" moment.
Unless one alien was present at that moment in the Garden...

I presume since you commented on this that you are aware of Harvard medical researcher Dr. John Mack and his work on the abduction phenomenon?

Not at all.
“Conquer men by your gentle kindness, and make zealous men wonder at your goodness. Put the lover of justice to shame by your compassion."
--St Isaac the Syrian
UTExan
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RetiredAg said:

UTExan said:

AstroAg17 said:

What would y'all say if the aliens had had their own Messiah a few thousand years ago? Do you expand the trinity to a foursome?
Call me a conspiracy theorist but that is exactly what I suspect they would want...and more.

Who would want what?
The worship and subordination of humanity to them contrary to God's plan for man.
UTExan
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RetiredAg said:

UTExan said:

RetiredAg said:

AstroAg17 said:

What would y'all say if the aliens had had their own Messiah a few thousand years ago? Do you expand the trinity to a foursome?
I'd just assume it's the same Messiah. I think the more interesting question is what would it be like if the alien race never had their "Adam eating the apple" moment.
Unless one alien was present at that moment in the Garden...

I presume since you commented on this that you are aware of Harvard medical researcher Dr. John Mack and his work on the abduction phenomenon?

Not at all.
Then perhaps you would find him interesting. He had some interesting conclusions.
Zobel
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AG
No. Christ is the preincarnate word, a unique hypostasis of the pre-existing logos with a human and divine nature.

The godhead didn't expand when Christ was incarnated.
Marco Esquandolas
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But what if god sent other jesuses to other planets to save them?
Frok
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Martin Q. Blank
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Marco Esquandolas said:

But what if god sent other jesuses to other planets to save them?
One and only son.
PacifistAg
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Marco Esquandolas said:

But what if god sent other jesuses to other planets to save them?

Or one Jesus to a bunch of planets.
“Conquer men by your gentle kindness, and make zealous men wonder at your goodness. Put the lover of justice to shame by your compassion."
--St Isaac the Syrian
Zobel
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AG
<Speculation only>

Not sure that applies.

He is the "only-begotten Son", "Begotten of the Father before all worlds". He was "begotten, not made", before He was incarnate and born.

Christ has two natures without confusion, without change, without division, without separation, joined in one person and one unique theandric (i.e., God and man) hypostasis. But the theandric hypostasis did not expand the Trinity to a Quaternary: it was a Trinity before and after the Incarnation.

So, I'm not sure why there couldn't be additional unique, uh... "theexogenic" hypostases.
Martin Q. Blank
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You're saying Christ has two natures, but not limited to two natures? He could also be a God-alien? Of course his natures are, like you said, without division or separation. So he would be a God-man-alien.
Recreational Nuke
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AstroAg17 said:

What would y'all say if the aliens had had their own Messiah a few thousand years ago? Do you expand the trinity to a foursome?
You've pretty much just described the plot of C.S Lewis "Space Trilogy"
Zobel
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AG
No.

I'm saying under this hypothetical there would be the unique hypostasis of the God-man Jesus of Nazareth, and a unique hypostasis of the God-alien Zebchar of Kzzygyzyht.

Neither of those represent an additional person of the Trinity, which existed before all creation.
PacifistAg
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AG

Quote:

Zebchar of Kzzygyzyht
“Conquer men by your gentle kindness, and make zealous men wonder at your goodness. Put the lover of justice to shame by your compassion."
--St Isaac the Syrian
Martin Q. Blank
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The God-man Jesus of Nazareth is the only begotten Son, second person of the Trinity. The God-alien Zebchar of Kzzygyzyht is ...?
UTExan
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k2aggie07 said:

No. Christ is the preincarnate word, a unique hypostasis of the pre-existing logos with a human and divine nature.

The godhead didn't expand when Christ was incarnated.
Correct.
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kurt vonnegut
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AstroAg17 said:

Let's assume we find aliens that aren't sentient. Did God give us dominion over them in Genesis? Or was that only earth animals?

If they taste good, then absolutely. Otherwise, who cares!
PacifistAg
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AstroAg17 said:

Let's assume we find aliens that aren't sentient. Did God give us dominion over them in Genesis? Or was that only earth animals?
Are these aliens made of bacon?
“Conquer men by your gentle kindness, and make zealous men wonder at your goodness. Put the lover of justice to shame by your compassion."
--St Isaac the Syrian
Martin Q. Blank
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They're actually really big shrimp.
Zobel
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AG
I'd look at it this way. There will never be another Jesus of Nazareth, or another theandric hypostasis. But that doesn't necessarily preclude a theexogenic hypostasis.

So you have the divine and uncreated:
one essence subsisting in three persons (Father, Son, Spirit)

The created:
1..n natures

Which, I suppose, could lead to the Incarnation(s):
1..n incarnations.

But each incarnation would still be the Son, and the Son would never be anything but the Son, and the Trinity would never expand.

Martin Q. Blank
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1. No more Jesuses, which I initially said.

2. If the theandric (i.e., God and man) hypostasis is without division or separation, an additional nature (without division or separation) with an additional incarnation, would make him the God-man-alien. The Son cannot be a God-alien because that would divide the theandric hypostasis.
Zobel
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AG
Yeah, there's a disconnect here.

There wouldn't be an addition to the theandric hypostasis. It would be a new unique incarnation.

So you'd have Jesus the Theandric Incarnation, and Zebchar the Theexogenic Incarnation, both of whom would be fully God and fully the Second person of the Trinity, but who would not be identical to each other because the created nature each had would be different.

The only "tricky" bit about this is that He would need to co-locate. But... I mean, that's not really a problem, right? It just raises the question of if "one of Him" could talk without the other speaking in unison.
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