Aggrad- Failed Ezekiel Prophecy? City of Tyre

3,578 Views | 98 Replies | Last: 6 yr ago by Aggrad08
booboo91
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Aggrad,
Please explain again the failed Ezekiel prophecy? Where is the huge smoking gun? I just don't see it, especially with the clarification made (3) short chapters later. Chapters 26-28 are all about Tyre- lots of symbolic language. Also need to read the text closely! Read more than 30 second sound bite.

1) Ezekiel 26:214: Says city of Tyre will be destroyed, including the mainland Tyre, will be done by many nations, Nebuchadnezzar (Neb) will participate.

Comment- This happened Neb conquers the mainland Tyre and satellite cities, lays siege and then leaves, does not conquer the tiny island just offshore. Roughly 250 years later Alexander the Great comes and destroys the island portion of Tyre by building large rampart- over water. Very important- notice text that say- He and They. He is Neb and They are others. No timeline is given

"Son of man, because Tyre has said of Jerusalem, 'Aha! The gate to the nations is broken, and its doors have swung open to me; now that she lies in ruins I will prosper,' 3 therefore this is what the Sovereign Lord says: I am against you, O Tyre, and I will bring many nations against you, like the seas casting up its waves. 4 They will destroy the walls of Tyre and pull down her towers; I will scrape away her rubble and make her a bare rock. 5 Out in the sea she will become a place to spread fishnets, for I have spoken, declares the Sovereign Lord. She will become plunder for the nations, 6 and her settlements on the mainland will be ravaged by the sword. Then they will know that I am the Lord.

7 "For this is what the Sovereign Lord says: From the north I am going to bring against Tyre Nebuchadnezzar king of Babylon, king of kings, with horses and chariots, with horsemen and a great army. 8 He will ravage your settlements on the mainland with the sword; he will set up siege works against you, build a ramp up to your walls and raise his shields against you. 9 He will direct the blows of his battering rams against your walls and demolish your towers with his weapons. 10 His horses will be so many that they will cover you with dust. Your walls will tremble at the noise of the war horses, wagons and chariots when he enters your gates as men enter a city whose walls have been broken through. 11 The hoofs of his horses will trample all your streets; he will kill your people with the sword, and your strong pillars will fall to the ground. 12 They will plunder your wealth and loot your merchandise; they will break down your walls and demolish your fine houses and throw your stones, timber and rubble into the sea. 13 I will put an end to your noisy songs, and the music of your harps will be heard no more. 14 I will make you a bare rock, and you will become a place to spread fishnets. You will never be rebuilt, for I the Lord have spoken, declares the Sovereign Lord."

3) Ezekiel 29:1820 Only 3 short chapters later, adds this clarification that Nebuchadnezzar did not succeed in his siege but would be offered up Egypt.

Son of man, Nebuchadnezzar, the king of Babylon, has made his army wage a hard campaign against Tyre; their heads grew bald, their shoulders rubbed raw, yet neither he nor his army received compensation from Tyre for all the effort they expended against it. Therefore thus says the Lord GOD: See! I am giving to Nebuchadnezzar, king of Babylon, the land of Egypt! He will carry off its wealth, plundering and pillaging whatever he can find to provide pay for his army. As payment for his toil I give him the land of Egypt oracle of the Lord GOD
booboo91
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Aggrad,

Not that you are a believer, but was Jonah a failed prophet as well? When the city of Nineveh repented? Answer- Nope

Did God lie when he said the line of David would always exist? And yet it took nearly a thousand years to fulfill? Answer- Nope

Samuel 7 11-16
"'The Lord declares to you that the Lord himself will establish a house for you: When your days are over and you rest with your ancestors, I will raise up your offspring to succeed you, your own flesh and blood,and I will establish his kingdom. He is the one who will build a house for my Name, and I will establish the throne of his kingdom forever.I will be his father, and he will be my son. When he does wrong, I will punish him with a rod wielded by men, with floggings inflicted by human hands. But my love will never be taken away from him, as I took it away from Saul, whom I removed from before you. Your house and your kingdom will endure forever before me; your throne will be established forever.
Sapper Redux
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Except none of it happened. He didn't take Tyre, nor did he conquer Egypt.
booboo91
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Dr. Watson said:

Except none of it happened. He didn't take Tyre, nor did he conquer Egypt.
None of it happened? Neb did lay siege to Tyre, he took the mainland. - Ezekiel also tells us this, Neb did not take it! So where is Ezekiel wrong? Where is the smoking gun? When Ezekiel says Neb did not take Tyre?


And yet the many nations- the THEY part of the text shows us - 250 years later Alexander conquered it.

He Neb did not conquer Egypt? What about- Battle of Carchemish
Octogan
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Quote:

14 I will make you a bare rock, and you will become a place to spread fishnets. You will never be rebuilt, for I the Lord have spoken, declares the Sovereign Lord.


It's a bustling city today. The prophecy was false. There is no debate. Only a person that is truly stupid and ignorant of the Bible would even broach this subject. Seems like the perfect topic for booboo.
americathegreat1492
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The settlements were taken, not the island fortifications. No walls were cast down. No ramp was built. No land was ravaged by the sword as the settlements were abandoned when Babylon's army arrived. It was not made a barren rock. It was not made a place for fishnets. It was in fact rebuilt. Case closed and shut.
Aggrad08
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AG
I was in tyre just yesterday, It's no bare rock. The prophecy does not in any way shape or form refer to alexander. It's completely explicit, nebuchadnezzar would destroy tyre. Further, even if you ignore the explicit text, alexander doesn't fulfill the prophecy as the city was fully rebuilt less than a generation after his famous attack. It was a thriving metropolis in Jesus own time. Mainland tyre that was destroyed is actually a separate city. The bible itself acknowledges the failed attack and predicts nebuchadnezzar would utterly destroy Egypt as compensation for the failed attack on tyre.

Further still when he went to invade Egypt he failed, he was defeated by amasis the second I believe (I'm working off memory).

The nile never ran dry, the people of Egypt never adopted the language of Babylon, it's all bunk.

Bustupp tried making these silly arguments in some thread a while back and was forced to retreat to "well Ezekiel was pretty close", which also isn't true.
booboo91
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Aggrad08 said:

I was in tyre just yesterday, It's no bare rock. The prophecy does not in any way shape or form refer to alexander. It's completely explicit, nebuchadnezzar would destroy tyre. Further, even if you ignore the explicit text, alexander doesn't fulfill the prophecy as the city was fully rebuilt less than a generation after his famous attack. It was a thriving metropolis in Jesus own time. Mainland tyre that was destroyed is actually a separate city. The bible itself acknowledges the failed attack and predicts nebuchadnezzar would utterly destroy Egypt as compensation for the failed attack on tyre.

Further still when he went to invade Egypt he failed, he was defeated by amasis the second I believe (I'm working off memory).

The nile never ran dry, the people of Egypt never adopted the language of Babylon, it's all bunk.

Bustupp tried making these silly arguments in some thread a while back and was forced to retreat to "well Ezekiel was pretty close", which also isn't true.
Why were you in Tyre?

1) Winner winner chicken dinner- the bible acknowledges the failed attack! How about 3 short chapters later Ezekiel acknowledges the failed attack! So you can not say this is a failure on part of Ezekiel. Gotta read the entire story, also understand the reason story was made and the symbolism and content.

2) Here are the facts- Neb did circle city/siege, did take mainland Tyre/cities, he did leave as Ezekiel says. 250 years later Alexander did conquer Tyre (Text says many nations). Text changes from He (Neb) to They. Neb did battle and defeat Egypt- did take territory that was formerly in control of Egypt.

3) Gotta read the text- when he says many nations- that leaves open many possiblities, when there is no timeline given this leaves open many possiblities.

I have provided scripture- please quote back scripture- reading the bible will be good for you! Please provide text where Egypt would be utterly destroyed by Neb Include all the associated text that provides more background and meaning.



booboo91
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Aggrad,

As you know Ezekiel is issuing a warning to the various nations to repent and change their ways: Ammonites, Tyre, Egypt, Edom, Gog- Bad things will happen. better repent. This is the purpose of Ezekiel comments. We see similar messages in book of Revelation to the churches, we see it over and over in OT with prophets to Jews to repent.

Repeat- Very Important- No timeline was given- Tyre and Egypt did fall, many times to conqueoring empires.

Neb did play a part, defeat Egypt in battles, Egypt was no longer a world power, he gathers shares of land that Egypt used to hold (Syria?) Did Neb gather some booty? maybe?
Aggrad08
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AG


Quote:

1) Winner winner chicken dinner- the bible acknowledges the failed attack! How about 3 short chapters later Ezekiel acknowledges the failed attack! So you can not say this is a failure on part of Ezekiel. Gotta read the entire story, also understand the reason story was made and the symbolism and content.


Yes, which is why it's clearly not about alexander. It says HE (nebuchadnezzar), would destroy the towers. Not just the many nations. It's explicit HE. So we are clear this never happened. Read exactly the parts that HE would do.

Quote:

2) Here are the facts- Neb did circle city, did take mainland Tyre/cities, he did leave as the Ezekiel says so.


But not as predicted. It's completely explicit.

Quote:

250 years later Alexander did conquer Tyre (Text says many nations).


The many nations is very very clearly a coalition led by nebuchadnezzar. It says nebuchadnezzar would trample the towers and walk through the streets. Not some totally different conqueror in a different attack on a different group of people. And again, the city was rebuilt virtually immediately.

Quote:

Text changes from He to They.

No, it goes back and forth, read again, it's unequivocal that HE would conquer tyre, not just they. And only an idiot would pretend it has anything more to do with alexander than Cyrus, or the Romans, or the British or anyone else who later conquered. And even if we say it's all those nations it still fails.

Quote:

Neb did battle and defeat Egypt- did take territory that was formerly in control of Egypt- speculation


This is demonstrably false. No speculation it's a lie or it's ignorant. Neb did defeat the Egyptian invasion that occurred earlier. Afterward (after tyre), he invaded Egypt and was defeated by amasis II. The bible prediction is false.

Quote:

3) Gotta read the text- when he says many nations- that leaves open many possiblities, when there is no timeline given this leaves open many possiblities.


Not to an honest man. There are many things noted for HIM not the many nations that we know didn't happen. Further, tyre was rebuilt, over and over again. You are terribly dishonest to gloss over this.

Quote:

I have provided scripture- please quote back scripture- reading the bible will be good for you! Please provide text where Egypt would be utterly destroyed.


You didn't even read what you provided correctly. It's right there in your own quote. You further ignored where it says it would never be rebuilt.

And I've obviously read it better than you if you haven't even gotten to the part about Egypt yet. So take your own advice. You quote exactly what it predicts for Egypt. The whole passage. I hate how blindly you argue, it's hardly worth the time.

You protect your own fragile views by being dishonest even with yourself.

booboo91
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Aggrad- agreed Tyre was destroyed many times and rebuilt. The island no longer exists after 2600 years everything has been filled in and tied to the mainland.
booboo91
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Aggrad08 said:

Yes, which is why it's clearly not about alexander. It says HE (nebuchadnezzar), would destroy the towers. Not just the many nations. It's explicit HE. So we are clear this never happened. Read exactly the parts that HE would do.

Aggrad,

It is ok to read the bible. It is ok for you to quote scripture. Let's take a step by step look. Focus like a laser and show me where I am wrong on this verse?

1) Why does it say many nations????? Fact this happened- Tyre fell mainland and island by many nations
2) Why does it say he (NEB) will ravage your settlemens on the mainland! Facit- this happened!
3) He will- Neb will put up siege works - this happened.
4) He will demolish our towers - this happend on the mainland of tyre
5) Very important!!!!- THEY (no longer Neb) will plunder and tear down your walls. Ezekiel 29 confirms this- Neb did not plunder!!

"Son of man, because Tyre has said of Jerusalem, 'Aha! The gate to the nations is broken, and its doors have swung open to me; now that she lies in ruins I will prosper,' 3 therefore this is what the Sovereign Lord says: I am against you, O Tyre, and I will bring many nations against you, like the seas casting up its waves. 4 They will destroy the walls of Tyre and pull down her towers; I will scrape away her rubble and make her a bare rock. 5 Out in the sea she will become a place to spread fishnets, for I have spoken, declares the Sovereign Lord. She will become plunder for the nations, 6 and her settlements on the mainland will be ravaged by the sword. Then they will know that I am the Lord.

7 "For this is what the Sovereign Lord says: From the north I am going to bring against Tyre Nebuchadnezzar king of Babylon, king of kings, with horses and chariots, with horsemen and a great army. 8 He will ravage your settlements on the mainland with the sword; he will set up siege works against you, build a ramp up to your walls and raise his shields against you. 9 He will direct the blows of his battering rams against your walls and demolish your towers with his weapons. 10 His horses will be so many that they will cover you with dust. Your walls will tremble at the noise of the war horses, wagons and chariots when he enters your gates as men enter a city whose walls have been broken through. 11 The hoofs of his horses will trample all your streets; he will kill your people with the sword, and your strong pillars will fall to the ground.

12 They will plunder your wealth and loot your merchandise; they will break down your walls and demolish your fine houses and throw your stones, timber and rubble into the sea. 13 I will put an end to your noisy songs, and the music of your harps will be heard no more. 14 I will make you a bare rock, and you will become a place to spread fishnets. You will never be rebuilt, for I the Lord have spoken, declares the Sovereign Lord."
Aggrad08
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AG
No, get on Google maps. I was there yesterday. The island was turned into a peninsula by alexander but it very much exists right now.

The attack on Egypt failed. And if you read the story it's very clear it's not talking about the distant future, it's punishing those people for what they are doing, not their great great great great....grandkids.

booboo91
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Aggrad08 said:

No, get on Google maps. I was there yesterday. The island was turned into a peninsula by alexander but it very much exists right now.

The attack on Egypt failed. And if you read the story it's very clear it's not talking about the distant future, it's punishing those people for what they are doing, not their great great great great....grandkids.


I got to go to work. But show me some bible verses to back up your claims. I think you are weak on your scripture, and adding things that are not in scripture.

So far we agree- Tyre the island turned peninsula has been destroyed and rebuilt many times.

Aggrad08
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AG
9 He will direct the blows of his battering rams against your walls and demolish your towers with his weapons. 10 His horses will be so many that they will cover you with dust. Your walls will tremble at the noise of the war horses, wagons and chariots when he enters your gates as men enter a city whose walls have been broken through. 11 The hoofs of his horses will trample all your streets; he will kill your people with the sword, and your strong pillars will fall to the ground.

None of that happened. The towers held, the mainland was loosely defended. The gates are on the main city. The mainland city wasn't even called tyre. It's pitifully dishonest booboo.
Aggrad08
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AG
The bible says it will never be rebuilt . Do you deny that?
booboo91
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Aggrad08 said:

No, get on Google maps. I was there yesterday. The island was turned into a peninsula by alexander but it very much exists right now.

The attack on Egypt failed. And if you read the story it's very clear it's not talking about the distant future, it's punishing those people for what they are doing, not their great great great great....grandkids.


Why were you in Tyre?

Please go read bible- and give me your specific bible verses. Quit being vague, with generalities on what you think the bible says.
Aggrad08
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AG
I am going to give Egypt to Nebuchadnezzar kingAM)" style="font-size: 0.625em; line-height: 22px; vertical-align: top;">of Babylon, and he will carry off its wealth. He will loot and plunderAN)" style="font-size: 0.625em; line-height: 22px; vertical-align: top;"> the land as pay for his army.AO)" style="font-size: 0.625em; line-height: 22px; vertical-align: top;"> 20 I have given him EgyptAP)" style="font-size: 0.625em; line-height: 22px; vertical-align: top;"> as a reward for his efforts because he and his army did it for me, declares the Sovereign Lord.AQ)" style="font-size: 0.625em; line-height: 22px; vertical-align: top;">

21 "On that day I will make a hornc]" style="font-size: 0.625em; line-height: 22px; vertical-align: top;">[c]AR)" style="font-size: 0.625em; line-height: 22px; vertical-align: top;"> grow for the Israelites, and I will open your mouthAS)" style="font-size: 0.625em; line-height: 22px; vertical-align: top;">among them. Then they will know that I am the Lord.AT)" style="font-size: 0.625em; line-height: 22px; vertical-align: top;">"

A Lament Over Egypt

30 The word of the Lord came to me: 2 "Son of man, prophesy and say: 'This is what the Sovereign Lord says:

"'WailAU)" style="font-size: 0.625em; line-height: 22px; vertical-align: top;"> and say,
"Alas for that day!"
3 For the day is near,AV)" style="font-size: 0.625em; line-height: 22px; vertical-align: top;">
the day of the LordAW)" style="font-size: 0.625em; line-height: 22px; vertical-align: top;"> is near
a day of clouds,
a time of doom for the nations.
4 A sword will come against Egypt,AX)" style="font-size: 0.625em; line-height: 22px; vertical-align: top;">
and anguish will come upon Cush.d]" style="font-size: 0.625em; line-height: 22px; vertical-align: top;">[d]AY)" style="font-size: 0.625em; line-height: 22px; vertical-align: top;">
When the slain fall in Egypt,
her wealth will be carried away
and her foundations torn down.AZ)" style="font-size: 0.625em; line-height: 22px; vertical-align: top;">

5 Cush and Libya,BA)" style="font-size: 0.625em; line-height: 22px; vertical-align: top;"> Lydia and all Arabia,BB)" style="font-size: 0.625em; line-height: 22px; vertical-align: top;"> Kub and the peopleBC)" style="font-size: 0.625em; line-height: 22px; vertical-align: top;"> of the covenant land will fall by the sword along with Egypt.BD)" style="font-size: 0.625em; line-height: 22px; vertical-align: top;">

6 "'This is what the Lord says:

"'The allies of Egypt will fall
and her proud strength will fail.
From Migdol to AswanBE)" style="font-size: 0.625em; line-height: 22px; vertical-align: top;">
they will fall by the sword within her,
declares the Sovereign Lord.
7 "'They will be desolate
among desolate lands,
and their cities will lie
among ruined cities.BF)" style="font-size: 0.625em; line-height: 22px; vertical-align: top;">
8 Then they will know that I am the Lord,
when I set fireBG)" style="font-size: 0.625em; line-height: 22px; vertical-align: top;"> to Egypt
and all her helpers are crushed.BH)" style="font-size: 0.625em; line-height: 22px; vertical-align: top;">

9 "'On that day messengers will go out from me in ships to frighten CushBI)" style="font-size: 0.625em; line-height: 22px; vertical-align: top;"> out of her complacency. AnguishBJ)" style="font-size: 0.625em; line-height: 22px; vertical-align: top;"> will take hold of them on the day of Egypt's doom, for it is sure to come.BK)" style="font-size: 0.625em; line-height: 22px; vertical-align: top;">

10 "'This is what the Sovereign Lord says:

"'I will put an end to the hordes of Egypt
by the hand of NebuchadnezzarBL)" style="font-size: 0.625em; line-height: 22px; vertical-align: top;">king of Babylon.BM)" style="font-size: 0.625em; line-height: 22px; vertical-align: top;">
11 He and his armythe most ruthless of nationsBN)" style="font-size: 0.625em; line-height: 22px; vertical-align: top;">
will be brought in to destroy the land.
They will draw their swords against Egypt
and fill the land with the slain.BO)" style="font-size: 0.625em; line-height: 22px; vertical-align: top;">
12 I will dry upBP)" style="font-size: 0.625em; line-height: 22px; vertical-align: top;"> the waters of the NileBQ)" style="font-size: 0.625em; line-height: 22px; vertical-align: top;">
and sell the land to an evil nation;
by the hand of foreigners
I will lay wasteBR)" style="font-size: 0.625em; line-height: 22px; vertical-align: top;"> the land and everything in it.

I the Lord have spoken.

It didn't paste well. Read here
https://biblia.com/bible/nlt/Ezek%2029-30


None of that happened.
My scripture is apparently much better than yours
booboo91
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Aggrad08 said:

The bible says it will never be rebuilt . Do you deny that?
Yes we agree city was rebuilt (clarification)- And here is the specific bible verses:

14 I will make you a bare rock, and you will become a place to spread fishnets. You will never be rebuilt, for I the Lord have spoken, declares the Sovereign Lord.....20 Then I will thrust you down with those who go down to the pit, to those of the bygone age; I will make you dwell in the netherworld, in the everlasting ruins, with those who have gone down to the pit, So you will never return or have a place in the land of the living I will make you a horror, and you shall be no more; You shall be sought for, but never found again oracle of the Lord GOD.

We have the literal and then the symbolic messages which includes the after life- you will be destroyed. Remminder- got to read the entire story.
Aggrad08
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AG
I've given you quotes. I was in tyre because I'm in Lebanon right now and I was driving through. I will probably be back later in the week.
Aggrad08
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AG
Quote:


14 I will make you a bare rock, and you will become a place to spread fishnets. You will never be rebuilt, for I the Lord have spoken, declares the Sovereign Lord.


This right here is not talking about the afterlife, it doesn't even make sense in that context. Do people go fishing in the afterlife? Do they rebuild literal cities?
booboo91
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Aggrad08 said:

I've given you quotes. I was in tyre because I'm in Lebanon right now and I was driving through. I will probably be back later in the week.
If you don't mind me asking? Why are you in Lebanon?

Be safe, prayers up (even though you don't believe in that foolishness)
Aggrad08
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AG
I have family here I'm visiting
Aggrad08
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AG
And I'll add again the notion that "they" is anything other than nebuchadnezzars army of many nations makes no sense. Not that it doesn't still fail all over the place, the notion that it's some totally separate event is completely unsupportable in the text or logically.
booboo91
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Aggrad08 said:

9 He will direct the blows of his battering rams against your walls and demolish your towers with his weapons. 10 His horses will be so many that they will cover you with dust. Your walls will tremble at the noise of the war horses, wagons and chariots when he enters your gates as men enter a city whose walls have been broken through. 11 The hoofs of his horses will trample all your streets; he will kill your people with the sword, and your strong pillars will fall to the ground.

None of that happened. The towers held, the mainland was loosely defended. The gates are on the main city. The mainland city wasn't even called tyre. It's pitifully dishonest booboo.
Aggrad, None of this happened? Who is being dishonest? Gotta read the previous verse:

"He will ravage your settlements on the mainland with the sword; he will set up siege works against you, build a ramp up to your walls and raise his shields against you"

We both agree this happened! Neb did in fact take the mainland (which would of been fortified with towers?). People would of been killed. Siege would of been implemented. Also Ezekiel also says Neb did NOT receive his compensation- hints he was not successful on island.


To me makes sense you would have both mainland and island defenses. If you have more info- would want to read it.
booboo91
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Aggrad08 said:

I have family here I'm visiting
Awesome enjoy. Do you feel safe where you are at?
booboo91
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Aggrad08 said:

And I'll add again the notion that "they" is anything other than nebuchadnezzars army of many nations makes no sense. Not that it doesn't still fail all over the place, the notion that it's some totally separate event is completely unsupportable in the text or logically.
1) You have to admit- pretty interesting- Text says HE, HE, HE and then the part Neb does not do (tear down the walls and collect the booty). It sudden changes to THEY. Why not just keep saying HE?

2) In my opinion what weakens your postion/ argument on Ezekiel being a failed prophet is his clarification statement 3 chapters later. You agree with him! Neb did not take the island and collect his booty. Add to that the vagueness, no timeline was given- gives Ezekiel/God great leeway.

3) My take, People do not read bible, and fail to notice these little details.
booboo91
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Aggrad08 said:


This right here is not talking about the afterlife, it doesn't even make sense in that context. Do people go fishing in the afterlife? Do they rebuild literal cities?
Agreed there are literal and symbolic meanings. I do think Ezekiel/God was saying- you will die, the city will be destroyed- literally, but he also ties it to the afterlife. That is why just 7 verses later we get more details and clarification. Note: We agree- city of Tyre, or portions of it were rebuilt, small section under water now?

20 Then I will thrust you down with those who go down to the pit, to those of the bygone age; I will make you dwell in the netherworld, in the everlasting ruins, with those who have gone down to the pit, So you will never return or have a place in the land of the living I will make you a horror, and you shall be no more; You shall be sought for, but never found again oracle of the Lord GOD.

There are (3) chapters on Tyre, if you want to understand context, need to read all of it. It is the common bible theme- repent and change your evil ways- there is a time of reckoning- wheat and weeds (go into fire).
Aggrad08
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AG
Quote:

Aggrad, None of this happened? Who is being dishonest? Gotta read the previous verse:

You.
You are being dishonest. Or just dumb. The mainland wasn't even called tyre it was called ushu or later old tyre and was unprotected. All the walls and towers were around the fortified island city. Ushu I was a mainland suburb. Conquering it was meaningless which is why nebuchadnezzar tried at great cost to actually attack tyre.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.ancient.eu/amp/1-503/

Quote:

We both agree this happened! Neb did in fact take the mainland (which would of been fortified with towers?). People would of been killed. Siege would of been implemented.


Ah no. The mainland was a largly defenseless suburb city of ushu. In times of war they would retreat behind the powerful walls and towers of tyre.

Quote:

Also Ezekiel also says Neb did NOT receive his compensation- hints he was not successful on island.


The island is tyre booboo. Taking ushu is nothing. The population and plunder are behind the city walls.

Quote:

To me makes sense you would have both mainland and island defenses. If you have more info- would want to read it.


No it doesn't, the mainland is a wide open hard to defend suburb. The city is an island fortress, you wouldn't throw men at defending the suburb against a larger army. You get behind the walls and watch them die trying to get you.

The difference in HE and THEY is talking about HIS army. It's very clearly one attack at one time. There is no hundreds of years of break. No other great general.
Aggrad08
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AG
You aren't reading the bible booboo. The they is his army. Pretending it's alexander the great is stupid
Where does it mention or imply That? Why would god punish the great great great grandchildren of the evil doers and give the actual offenders a great victory? How come the city is rebuilt?

The idea that the verse saying the city will never be rebuilt refers to the afterlife cannot be taken seriously by a thinking person.

Further the entire Egypt prophecy failed. The whole of Ezekiel is one big failed prophecy. When was the Egypt prophecy fullfilled?
Polygon
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This is a perfect example of Christians deciding the Bible is right then torturing the facts to try and make the real world match their predetermined belief.
ramblin_ag02
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AG
There's a bit of a difference between prophets who prophecy destruction and wrath and those that prophesy peace. You can see this difference in Jeremiah 28 and Ezekiel 13. The idea is that God's wrath can always be turned aside by humility, confession, and repentence. However, prophecies of peace are not contingent. They are example of grace, and they do not depend on the goodness of the people being blessed. Therefore, it is possible for a prophecy of wrath to go unfulfilled, but it is not possible for a prophecy of peace to go unfulfilled.

There are a few clear examples this principle aside from clear written language in the chapters above. Jonah is a good example. He preached doom to Nineveh, they repented, and no doom came. Jonah goes into a depression over this, because he felt God sent him all the way to Nineveh for nothing. God tries to teach Jonah that He doesn't really want anyone destroyed, but that He wants everyone to relent of wickedness.

Another example is the angel during the plague of David's census. The angel prophecies 3 terrible curses to David's kingdom in 1Chron 21 and makes David pick one. David picks a plague that will spread "through all the borders of Israel". However, just a few verses later God relented due to David's confession, humility, and repentence, and the plague did not spread "through all the borders of Israel". Under your example, the angel speaking to David and causing a supernatural plague is actually a false prophet! But the angel prophecied exactly what would happen if David had not repented.

You can see the fate of Tyre in Ezekiel the same way. For all we know they pulled a Nineveh and repented of wickedness during the Babylonian siege. God showing mercy doesn't make for false prophets.
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ramblin_ag02
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AG
IMO, these gotcha points are pretty tiresome. The Masorites and the Alexandrian Jews lived after the time of Babylon. They knew the history of Tyre, Nebuchadnezzar, and Ezekiel's prophecy before Jesus was even born. They still decided that Ezekiel was a legitimate prophet. Then later the Christian church decided to keep Ezekiel as part of the canon as did the Reformers, despite every single one of them having knowledge of this prophecy. At any point Ezekiel could have been dropped from canon, and then you wouldn't have this little gotcha point to feel smug about.

An intellectual lazy person sees something like Ezekiel's prophecy of Tyre and says that stupid book is so wrong. An inquisitive person would actually do some research and try and figure out why a bunch of adamantly religious people would keep an obviously unfulfilled prophecy in their holy book for over 2000 years despite many opportunities to remove it.

Finally, this unfulfilled prophecy is also a powerful rebuke to the idea nearly all the Old Testament was written after the stated dates to make them seem prophetic by retelling history in the future tense. Ezekiel lived during the Babylonian Exile. If the book was actually written later, then it would be really stupid to put a "prophecy" about a historical event that never happened.
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Texaggie7nine
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So the Bible was not crafted by God's hands through people, yet through flawed people who might be wrong?
7nine
Aggrad08
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AG
Failed prophecies, lack of historical accuracy, evolution, bad morals etc. are very obviously only issues for people who like to pretend it's the perfect word of God dictated via miraculous inspiration. Which is in fact a huge percentage of Christians.
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