Aggie4Life02 said:

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UTExan said:

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Aggie4Life02 said:

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UTExan said:

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Revelation 20:

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4 And I saw thrones, and they sat on them, and judgment was committed to them. Then I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded for their witness to Jesus and for the word of God, who had not worshiped the beast or his image, and had not received his mark on their foreheads or on their hands. And they lived and reigned with Christ for a[a] thousand years. 5 But the rest of the dead did not live again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection. 6 Blessed and holy is he who has part in the first resurrection. Over such the second death has no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with Him a thousand years.

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Right, the first Resurrection there is referring to the resurrection of Jesus. Believers have part in the first resurrection. The first resurrection is physical for Christ, but spiritual for his people. The 2nd resurrection is physical for everyone.

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Spiritual for his people? Do you mean that our spirits are somehow "resurrected"? (although I can see no need for a spirit to be resurrected)

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1 Thessalonians 4:

13 But we do not want you to be uninformed, brethren, about those who are asleep, so that you will not grieve as do the rest who have no hope.14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so God will bring with Him those who have fallen asleep [k]in Jesus. 15 For this we say to you by the word of the Lord, that we who are alive [l]and remain until the coming of the Lord, will not precede those who have fallen asleep.16 For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a [m]shout, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first. 17 Then we who are alive [n]and remain will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air, and so we shall always be with the Lord. 18 Therefore comfort one another with these words.

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I don't mean to niggle over doctrine, but are you saying that this resurrection is spiritual? Just confused.

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The first resurrection is spiritual. "To be absent from the body is to be present with the Lord."

The 2nd resurrection is physical. Everyone, including those who are going to hell, are physically resurrected. "Multitudes who sleep in the dust of the earth will awake: some to everlasting life, others to shame and everlasting contempt."

The passage in 2 Thessalonians is referring to the 2nd resurrection.

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I don't see support for the 1st resurrection as being spiritual only. It appears from the text that death is to coin a phrase being disembodied (absent from the body and present with the Lord). When our physical bodies are then raised/transformed to be incorruptible would appear to be the actual resurrection although I can see where you might surmise that from John 5:28-29. Is your position taken from a particular doctrinal teaching or denominational influence or did you arrive at it through independent reading of scripture?

The 1st Resurrection is the physical resurrection of Jesus Christ. His resurrection is the guarantee of the 2nd Resurrection. His people take part in the 1st Resurrection. His people could not take part in the 1st Resurrection until it actually happened.

Let me ask you a question? Did David ascend to heaven when he died?

Aggie4Life02 said:

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The 1st Resurrection is the physical resurrection of Jesus Christ. His resurrection is the guarantee of the 2nd Resurrection. His people take part in the 1st Resurrection. His people could not take part in the 1st Resurrection until it actually happened.

Let me ask you a question? Did David ascend to heaven when he died?

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Good question. Paul certainly said that for him to be absent from the body was to be present with the the Lord. However in Acts 2: 34-35 we have the following:

Quote:

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34 "For David did not ascend into the heavens, but he says himself:
'The Lord said to my Lord,
"Sit at My right hand,
35 Till I make Your enemies Your footstool."'

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In summary, it appears a bit confusing chronologically because we do know from Jesus' account of Lazarus that at death, Lazarus (not his body) was taken to the "bosom of Abraham", that pleasant place/"Abode of the Righteous Dead" until the Judgment Day. This indicates to me that the passage in Isaiah 26 portends a place of refuge and rest for the righteous dead until the Second Coming of Jesus. And yet in Jude, there IS contention over the body of Moses. I guess The passage from Revelation makes mention of the 2nd Resurrection I also see some implicit support for your position in Rev.20: 11-15 in which the dead were judged from books: one being the book of life. Yet we also have those saints who will rule and reign with Christ during the Millennium. The question is: are they resurrected bodies or spirit?

UTExan said:

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Aggie4Life02 said:

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The 1st Resurrection is the physical resurrection of Jesus Christ. His resurrection is the guarantee of the 2nd Resurrection. His people take part in the 1st Resurrection. His people could not take part in the 1st Resurrection until it actually happened.

Let me ask you a question? Did David ascend to heaven when he died?

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Good question. Paul certainly said that for him to be absent from the body was to be present with the the Lord. However in Acts 2: 34-35 we have the following:

Quote:

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34 "For David did not ascend into the heavens, but he says himself:
'The Lord said to my Lord,
"Sit at My right hand,
35 Till I make Your enemies Your footstool."'

---

In summary, it appears a bit confusing chronologically because we do know from Jesus' account of Lazarus that at death, Lazarus (not his body) was taken to the "bosom of Abraham", that pleasant place/"Abode of the Righteous Dead" until the Judgment Day. This indicates to me that the passage in Isaiah 26 portends a place of refuge and rest for the righteous dead until the Second Coming of Jesus. And yet in Jude, there IS contention over the body of Moses. I guess The passage from Revelation makes mention of the 2nd Resurrection I also see some implicit support for your position in Rev.20: 11-15 in which the dead were judged from books: one being the book of life. Yet we also have those saints who will rule and reign with Christ during the Millennium. The question is: are they resurrected bodies or spirit?

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I would say that we are in the Millennium now.

Aggie4Life02 said:

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UTExan said:

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Aggie4Life02 said:

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The 1st Resurrection is the physical resurrection of Jesus Christ. His resurrection is the guarantee of the 2nd Resurrection. His people take part in the 1st Resurrection. His people could not take part in the 1st Resurrection until it actually happened.

Let me ask you a question? Did David ascend to heaven when he died?

---

Good question. Paul certainly said that for him to be absent from the body was to be present with the the Lord. However in Acts 2: 34-35 we have the following:

Quote:

---

34 "For David did not ascend into the heavens, but he says himself:
'The Lord said to my Lord,
"Sit at My right hand,
35 Till I make Your enemies Your footstool."'

---

In summary, it appears a bit confusing chronologically because we do know from Jesus' account of Lazarus that at death, Lazarus (not his body) was taken to the "bosom of Abraham", that pleasant place/"Abode of the Righteous Dead" until the Judgment Day. This indicates to me that the passage in Isaiah 26 portends a place of refuge and rest for the righteous dead until the Second Coming of Jesus. And yet in Jude, there IS contention over the body of Moses. I guess The passage from Revelation makes mention of the 2nd Resurrection I also see some implicit support for your position in Rev.20: 11-15 in which the dead were judged from books: one being the book of life. Yet we also have those saints who will rule and reign with Christ during the Millennium. The question is: are they resurrected bodies or spirit?

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I would say that we are in the Millennium now.

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"If we are in the Millennium now, then I would say God has Satan on a very long leash".
-----------------------------source unknown

UTExan said:

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Aggie4Life02 said:

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UTExan said:

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Aggie4Life02 said:

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The 1st Resurrection is the physical resurrection of Jesus Christ. His resurrection is the guarantee of the 2nd Resurrection. His people take part in the 1st Resurrection. His people could not take part in the 1st Resurrection until it actually happened.

Let me ask you a question? Did David ascend to heaven when he died?

---

Good question. Paul certainly said that for him to be absent from the body was to be present with the the Lord. However in Acts 2: 34-35 we have the following:

Quote:

---

34 "For David did not ascend into the heavens, but he says himself:
'The Lord said to my Lord,
"Sit at My right hand,
35 Till I make Your enemies Your footstool."'

---

In summary, it appears a bit confusing chronologically because we do know from Jesus' account of Lazarus that at death, Lazarus (not his body) was taken to the "bosom of Abraham", that pleasant place/"Abode of the Righteous Dead" until the Judgment Day. This indicates to me that the passage in Isaiah 26 portends a place of refuge and rest for the righteous dead until the Second Coming of Jesus. And yet in Jude, there IS contention over the body of Moses. I guess The passage from Revelation makes mention of the 2nd Resurrection I also see some implicit support for your position in Rev.20: 11-15 in which the dead were judged from books: one being the book of life. Yet we also have those saints who will rule and reign with Christ during the Millennium. The question is: are they resurrected bodies or spirit?

---

I would say that we are in the Millennium now.

---

"If we are in the Millennium now, then I would say God has Satan on a very long leash".
-----------------------------source unknown

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Have you seen Satan?

Aggie4Life02 said:

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UTExan said:

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Aggie4Life02 said:

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UTExan said:

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Aggie4Life02 said:

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The 1st Resurrection is the physical resurrection of Jesus Christ. His resurrection is the guarantee of the 2nd Resurrection. His people take part in the 1st Resurrection. His people could not take part in the 1st Resurrection until it actually happened.

Let me ask you a question? Did David ascend to heaven when he died?

---

Good question. Paul certainly said that for him to be absent from the body was to be present with the the Lord. However in Acts 2: 34-35 we have the following:

Quote:

---

34 "For David did not ascend into the heavens, but he says himself:
'The Lord said to my Lord,
"Sit at My right hand,
35 Till I make Your enemies Your footstool."'

---

In summary, it appears a bit confusing chronologically because we do know from Jesus' account of Lazarus that at death, Lazarus (not his body) was taken to the "bosom of Abraham", that pleasant place/"Abode of the Righteous Dead" until the Judgment Day. This indicates to me that the passage in Isaiah 26 portends a place of refuge and rest for the righteous dead until the Second Coming of Jesus. And yet in Jude, there IS contention over the body of Moses. I guess The passage from Revelation makes mention of the 2nd Resurrection I also see some implicit support for your position in Rev.20: 11-15 in which the dead were judged from books: one being the book of life. Yet we also have those saints who will rule and reign with Christ during the Millennium. The question is: are they resurrected bodies or spirit?

---

I would say that we are in the Millennium now.

---

"If we are in the Millennium now, then I would say God has Satan on a very long leash".
-----------------------------source unknown

---

Have you seen Satan?

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Most workdays, yes, in some form. I worked as a cop for 36 years. Sometimes in the actual people encountered in a strangely manifested form. Pure evil or evil incarnated is the only way I can describe it. Going into a metro jail facility to book a prisoner is about the worst. The booking area in any big-city jail facility will look the same I am sure.

UTExan said:

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Aggie4Life02 said:

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UTExan said:

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Aggie4Life02 said:

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UTExan said:

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Aggie4Life02 said:

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The 1st Resurrection is the physical resurrection of Jesus Christ. His resurrection is the guarantee of the 2nd Resurrection. His people take part in the 1st Resurrection. His people could not take part in the 1st Resurrection until it actually happened.

Let me ask you a question? Did David ascend to heaven when he died?

---

Good question. Paul certainly said that for him to be absent from the body was to be present with the the Lord. However in Acts 2: 34-35 we have the following:

Quote:

---

34 "For David did not ascend into the heavens, but he says himself:
'The Lord said to my Lord,
"Sit at My right hand,
35 Till I make Your enemies Your footstool."'

---

In summary, it appears a bit confusing chronologically because we do know from Jesus' account of Lazarus that at death, Lazarus (not his body) was taken to the "bosom of Abraham", that pleasant place/"Abode of the Righteous Dead" until the Judgment Day. This indicates to me that the passage in Isaiah 26 portends a place of refuge and rest for the righteous dead until the Second Coming of Jesus. And yet in Jude, there IS contention over the body of Moses. I guess The passage from Revelation makes mention of the 2nd Resurrection I also see some implicit support for your position in Rev.20: 11-15 in which the dead were judged from books: one being the book of life. Yet we also have those saints who will rule and reign with Christ during the Millennium. The question is: are they resurrected bodies or spirit?

---

I would say that we are in the Millennium now.

---

"If we are in the Millennium now, then I would say God has Satan on a very long leash".
-----------------------------source unknown

---

Have you seen Satan?

---

Most workdays, yes, in some form. I worked as a cop for 36 years. Sometimes in the actual people encountered in a strangely manifested form. Pure evil or evil incarnated is the only way I can describe it. Going into a metro jail facility to book a prisoner is about the worst. The booking area in any big-city jail facility will look the same I am sure.

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How is that Satan? People are pretty depraved on their own, or it could certified be demonic activity. That doesn't make it Satan.

Aggie4Life02 said:

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UTExan said:

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Aggie4Life02 said:

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UTExan said:

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Aggie4Life02 said:

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UTExan said:

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Aggie4Life02 said:

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The 1st Resurrection is the physical resurrection of Jesus Christ. His resurrection is the guarantee of the 2nd Resurrection. His people take part in the 1st Resurrection. His people could not take part in the 1st Resurrection until it actually happened.

Let me ask you a question? Did David ascend to heaven when he died?

---

Good question. Paul certainly said that for him to be absent from the body was to be present with the the Lord. However in Acts 2: 34-35 we have the following:

Quote:

---

34 "For David did not ascend into the heavens, but he says himself:
'The Lord said to my Lord,
"Sit at My right hand,
35 Till I make Your enemies Your footstool."'

---

In summary, it appears a bit confusing chronologically because we do know from Jesus' account of Lazarus that at death, Lazarus (not his body) was taken to the "bosom of Abraham", that pleasant place/"Abode of the Righteous Dead" until the Judgment Day. This indicates to me that the passage in Isaiah 26 portends a place of refuge and rest for the righteous dead until the Second Coming of Jesus. And yet in Jude, there IS contention over the body of Moses. I guess The passage from Revelation makes mention of the 2nd Resurrection I also see some implicit support for your position in Rev.20: 11-15 in which the dead were judged from books: one being the book of life. Yet we also have those saints who will rule and reign with Christ during the Millennium. The question is: are they resurrected bodies or spirit?

---

I would say that we are in the Millennium now.

---

"If we are in the Millennium now, then I would say God has Satan on a very long leash".
-----------------------------source unknown

---

Have you seen Satan?

---

Most workdays, yes, in some form. I worked as a cop for 36 years. Sometimes in the actual people encountered in a strangely manifested form. Pure evil or evil incarnated is the only way I can describe it. Going into a metro jail facility to book a prisoner is about the worst. The booking area in any big-city jail facility will look the same I am sure.

---

How is that Satan? People are pretty depraved on their own, or it could certified be demonic activity. That doesn't make it Satan.

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I am taking it as proof positive we are not in the Millennium. If Satan is bound his residue is so strong that it certainly feels like his presence. And of course, Jesus has not returned yet.

UTExan said:

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Aggie4Life02 said:

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UTExan said:

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Aggie4Life02 said:

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UTExan said:

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Aggie4Life02 said:

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UTExan said:

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Aggie4Life02 said:

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The 1st Resurrection is the physical resurrection of Jesus Christ. His resurrection is the guarantee of the 2nd Resurrection. His people take part in the 1st Resurrection. His people could not take part in the 1st Resurrection until it actually happened.

Let me ask you a question? Did David ascend to heaven when he died?

---

Good question. Paul certainly said that for him to be absent from the body was to be present with the the Lord. However in Acts 2: 34-35 we have the following:

Quote:

---

34 "For David did not ascend into the heavens, but he says himself:
'The Lord said to my Lord,
"Sit at My right hand,
35 Till I make Your enemies Your footstool."'

---

In summary, it appears a bit confusing chronologically because we do know from Jesus' account of Lazarus that at death, Lazarus (not his body) was taken to the "bosom of Abraham", that pleasant place/"Abode of the Righteous Dead" until the Judgment Day. This indicates to me that the passage in Isaiah 26 portends a place of refuge and rest for the righteous dead until the Second Coming of Jesus. And yet in Jude, there IS contention over the body of Moses. I guess The passage from Revelation makes mention of the 2nd Resurrection I also see some implicit support for your position in Rev.20: 11-15 in which the dead were judged from books: one being the book of life. Yet we also have those saints who will rule and reign with Christ during the Millennium. The question is: are they resurrected bodies or spirit?

---

I would say that we are in the Millennium now.

---

"If we are in the Millennium now, then I would say God has Satan on a very long leash".
-----------------------------source unknown

---

Have you seen Satan?

---

Most workdays, yes, in some form. I worked as a cop for 36 years. Sometimes in the actual people encountered in a strangely manifested form. Pure evil or evil incarnated is the only way I can describe it. Going into a metro jail facility to book a prisoner is about the worst. The booking area in any big-city jail facility will look the same I am sure.

---

How is that Satan? People are pretty depraved on their own, or it could certified be demonic activity. That doesn't make it Satan.

---

I am taking it as proof positive we are not in the Millennium. If Satan is bound his residue is so strong that it certainly feels like his presence. And of course, Jesus has not returned yet.

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I'm not sure how that's proof that Satan isn't bound?

Aggie4Life02 said:

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UTExan said:

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Aggie4Life02 said:

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UTExan said:

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Aggie4Life02 said:

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UTExan said:

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Aggie4Life02 said:

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UTExan said:

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Aggie4Life02 said:

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The 1st Resurrection is the physical resurrection of Jesus Christ. His resurrection is the guarantee of the 2nd Resurrection. His people take part in the 1st Resurrection. His people could not take part in the 1st Resurrection until it actually happened.

Let me ask you a question? Did David ascend to heaven when he died?

---

Good question. Paul certainly said that for him to be absent from the body was to be present with the the Lord. However in Acts 2: 34-35 we have the following:

Quote:

---

34 "For David did not ascend into the heavens, but he says himself:
'The Lord said to my Lord,
"Sit at My right hand,
35 Till I make Your enemies Your footstool."'

---

In summary, it appears a bit confusing chronologically because we do know from Jesus' account of Lazarus that at death, Lazarus (not his body) was taken to the "bosom of Abraham", that pleasant place/"Abode of the Righteous Dead" until the Judgment Day. This indicates to me that the passage in Isaiah 26 portends a place of refuge and rest for the righteous dead until the Second Coming of Jesus. And yet in Jude, there IS contention over the body of Moses. I guess The passage from Revelation makes mention of the 2nd Resurrection I also see some implicit support for your position in Rev.20: 11-15 in which the dead were judged from books: one being the book of life. Yet we also have those saints who will rule and reign with Christ during the Millennium. The question is: are they resurrected bodies or spirit?

---

I would say that we are in the Millennium now.

---

"If we are in the Millennium now, then I would say God has Satan on a very long leash".
-----------------------------source unknown

---

Have you seen Satan?

---

Most workdays, yes, in some form. I worked as a cop for 36 years. Sometimes in the actual people encountered in a strangely manifested form. Pure evil or evil incarnated is the only way I can describe it. Going into a metro jail facility to book a prisoner is about the worst. The booking area in any big-city jail facility will look the same I am sure.

---

How is that Satan? People are pretty depraved on their own, or it could certified be demonic activity. That doesn't make it Satan.

---

I am taking it as proof positive we are not in the Millennium. If Satan is bound his residue is so strong that it certainly feels like his presence. And of course, Jesus has not returned yet.

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I'm not sure how that's proof that Satan isn't bound?

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I think we ARE actually seeing Satan manifested more and more with resurgent idolatry, narcissism, paganism, preoccupation with sensuality, preoccupation with the evil supernatural and the turning of the culture from predominant Christianity to multiculturalism and the emergence of other gods; the generational/class and racial animus are simply symptoms of the evil to come IMHO.