The Rapture-An Exposition on a Critical Christian Doctrine

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UTExan
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Chuck Missler discusses the Rapture, the scriptural references to it in the Old and New Testaments and the parallels between Jesus returning for His Church and the ancient Jewish wedding customs and protocols. Comfort and reassurance for God's people:

It is better to light a flamethrower than to curse the darkness- Sir Terence Pratchett
“ III stooges si viveret et nos omnes ad quos etiam probabile est mittent custard pies”
Aggie4Life02
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AG
The rapture takes place at the resurrection of the dead.
UTExan
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Aggie4Life02 said:

The rapture takes place at the resurrection of the dead.
The first resurrection or the second resurrection?
It is better to light a flamethrower than to curse the darkness- Sir Terence Pratchett
“ III stooges si viveret et nos omnes ad quos etiam probabile est mittent custard pies”
Sapper Redux
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Well, we know it hasn't happened yet:
Quote:

Polygamist Fugitive Captured, Disproving Lawyer's Theory that He Disappeared in the Rapture


http://www.slate.com/blogs/xx_factor/2017/06/15/polygamist_fugitive_lyle_jeffs_captured_after_year_on_the_run.html
Aggie4Life02
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AG
UTExan said:

Aggie4Life02 said:

The rapture takes place at the resurrection of the dead.
The first resurrection or the second resurrection?


The first resurrection was the resurrection of Jesus. The second resurrection is the general resurrection.
UTExan
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Revelation 20:
Quote:

4 And I saw thrones, and they sat on them, and judgment was committed to them. Then I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded for their witness to Jesus and for the word of God, who had not worshiped the beast or his image, and had not received his mark on their foreheads or on their hands. And they lived and reigned with Christ for a[a] thousand years. 5 But the rest of the dead did not live again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection. 6 Blessed and holy is he who has part in the first resurrection. Over such the second death has no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with Him a thousand years.
It is better to light a flamethrower than to curse the darkness- Sir Terence Pratchett
“ III stooges si viveret et nos omnes ad quos etiam probabile est mittent custard pies”
Dad-O-Lot
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AG
UTExan said:

Aggie4Life02 said:

The rapture takes place at the resurrection of the dead.
The first resurrection or the second resurrection?
People of integrity expect to be believed, when they're not, they let time prove them right.
Aggie4Life02
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AG
UTExan said:

Revelation 20:
Quote:

4 And I saw thrones, and they sat on them, and judgment was committed to them. Then I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded for their witness to Jesus and for the word of God, who had not worshiped the beast or his image, and had not received his mark on their foreheads or on their hands. And they lived and reigned with Christ for a[a] thousand years. 5 But the rest of the dead did not live again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection. 6 Blessed and holy is he who has part in the first resurrection. Over such the second death has no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with Him a thousand years.



Right, the first Resurrection there is referring to the resurrection of Jesus. Believers have part in the first resurrection. The first resurrection is physical for Christ, but spiritual for his people. The 2nd resurrection is physical for everyone.
swimmerbabe11
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P.C. Principal
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it would suck to be on a plane with Christian pilots when the rapture happens
swimmerbabe11
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I remember getting confused in my christian elementary school when kids would be talking about the rapture and what they would do if they were "left behind" and having prep plans..

"Um guys, I don't believe in it, but aren't the rules that if you get left behind something went wrong? I mean...um... I don't think rapture is a thing, but if there is one... I supposed buh bye suckers"
Aggie4Life02
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AG
The Rapture happens on judgement day. It's the least of your worries.
UTExan
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Aggie4Life02 said:

The Rapture happens on judgement day. It's the least of your worries.
Perhaps you would benefit from the first 45 minutes of the video.
It is better to light a flamethrower than to curse the darkness- Sir Terence Pratchett
“ III stooges si viveret et nos omnes ad quos etiam probabile est mittent custard pies”
Aggie4Life02
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AG
UTExan said:

Aggie4Life02 said:

The Rapture happens on judgement day. It's the least of your worries.
Perhaps you would benefit from the first 45 minutes of the video.


I've watched it. He is mistaken.
Woody2006
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AG
As if anyone knows when the fanciful rapture will happen.
FTACo88-FDT24dad
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AG
From a history of theology perspective, when did the idea of the Rapture first appear?

Thanks.
Aggie4Life02
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AG
XUSCR said:

From a history of theology perspective, when did the idea of the Rapture first appear?

Thanks.


The Rapture is in the Bible. The question is when does it occur. The left behind narrative is very new to Christianity.
UTExan
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Aggie4Life02 said:

UTExan said:

Aggie4Life02 said:

The Rapture happens on judgement day. It's the least of your worries.
Perhaps you would benefit from the first 45 minutes of the video.


I've watched it. He is mistaken.
Well that certainly is an authoritative answer.
It is better to light a flamethrower than to curse the darkness- Sir Terence Pratchett
“ III stooges si viveret et nos omnes ad quos etiam probabile est mittent custard pies”
UTExan
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Aggie4Life02 said:

XUSCR said:

From a history of theology perspective, when did the idea of the Rapture first appear?

Thanks.


The Rapture is in the Bible. The question is when does it occur. The left behind narrative is very new to Christianity.
Actually no. The incorrect critique is that John Darby originated it ca. 1830. He only popularized it.
The Book of Revelation, 1 Thessalonians and other references point to it. It was known in the Reformation.
Enoch and Elijah were both "raptured" (caught up) without tasting death. Daniel 12:1-2 speaks of it. Matthew 24:30-31 does too.Philippians 3:20-21, 1 Corinthians 15:51-53, Luke 13:24-27, Mark 13:24-27, Isaiah 26:20 can all be used to construct a case for rapture. There are more references as well.
Quote:

The concept of the rapture, in connection with premillennialism, was expressed by the 17th-century American Puritans Increase and Cotton Mather. They held to the idea that believers would be caught up in the air, followed by judgments on earth, and then the millennium.[url=https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rapture#cite_note-r-Kyle-1998-24][24][/url][url=https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rapture#cite_note-r-Boyer-1992-25][25][/url] Other 17th-century expressions of the rapture are found in the works of: Robert Maton, Nathaniel Homes, John Browne, Thomas Vincent, Henry Danvers, and William Sherwin.[url=https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rapture#cite_note-26][26][/url] The term rapture was used by Philip Doddridge[url=https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rapture#cite_note-27][27][/url] and John Gill[url=https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rapture#cite_note-28][28][/url] in their New Testament commentaries, with the idea that believers would be caught up prior to judgment on earth and Jesus' second coming.

Hate to use Wiki, but it contains footnotes on citation by scholars you can check out
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rapture

It is better to light a flamethrower than to curse the darkness- Sir Terence Pratchett
“ III stooges si viveret et nos omnes ad quos etiam probabile est mittent custard pies”
Aggie4Life02
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AG
UTExan said:

Aggie4Life02 said:

XUSCR said:

From a history of theology perspective, when did the idea of the Rapture first appear?

Thanks.


The Rapture is in the Bible. The question is when does it occur. The left behind narrative is very new to Christianity.
Actually no. The incorrect critique is that John Darby originated it ca. 1830. He only popularized it.
The Book of Revelation, 1 Thessalonians and other references point to it. It was known in the Reformation.
Enoch and Elijah were both "raptured" (caught up) without tasting death. Daniel 12:1-2 speaks of it. Matthew 24:30-31 does too.Philippians 3:20-21, 1 Corinthians 15:51-53, Luke 13:24-27, Mark 13:24-27, Isaiah 26:20 can all be used to construct a case for rapture. There are more references as well.
Quote:

The concept of the rapture, in connection with premillennialism, was expressed by the 17th-century American Puritans Increase and Cotton Mather. They held to the idea that believers would be caught up in the air, followed by judgments on earth, and then the millennium.[url=https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rapture#cite_note-r-Kyle-1998-24][24][/url][url=https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rapture#cite_note-r-Boyer-1992-25][25][/url] Other 17th-century expressions of the rapture are found in the works of: Robert Maton, Nathaniel Homes, John Browne, Thomas Vincent, Henry Danvers, and William Sherwin.[url=https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rapture#cite_note-26][26][/url] The term rapture was used by Philip Doddridge[url=https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rapture#cite_note-27][27][/url] and John Gill[url=https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rapture#cite_note-28][28][/url] in their New Testament commentaries, with the idea that believers would be caught up prior to judgment on earth and Jesus' second coming.

Hate to use Wiki, but it contains footnotes on citation by scholars you can check out
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rapture




You completely ignored the controversy and stated what everyone agrees on.

All Christians agree three is a Rapture. It's in the Bible. The question is when does it occur. The idea that the Rapture takes place prior to the Second Coming is a new idea in church history.
UTExan
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Aggie4Life02 said:

UTExan said:

Aggie4Life02 said:

XUSCR said:

From a history of theology perspective, when did the idea of the Rapture first appear?

Thanks.


The Rapture is in the Bible. The question is when does it occur. The left behind narrative is very new to Christianity.
Actually no. The incorrect critique is that John Darby originated it ca. 1830. He only popularized it.
The Book of Revelation, 1 Thessalonians and other references point to it. It was known in the Reformation.
Enoch and Elijah were both "raptured" (caught up) without tasting death. Daniel 12:1-2 speaks of it. Matthew 24:30-31 does too.Philippians 3:20-21, 1 Corinthians 15:51-53, Luke 13:24-27, Mark 13:24-27, Isaiah 26:20 can all be used to construct a case for rapture. There are more references as well.
Quote:

The concept of the rapture, in connection with premillennialism, was expressed by the 17th-century American Puritans Increase and Cotton Mather. They held to the idea that believers would be caught up in the air, followed by judgments on earth, and then the millennium.[url=https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rapture#cite_note-r-Kyle-1998-24][24][/url][url=https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rapture#cite_note-r-Boyer-1992-25][25][/url] Other 17th-century expressions of the rapture are found in the works of: Robert Maton, Nathaniel Homes, John Browne, Thomas Vincent, Henry Danvers, and William Sherwin.[url=https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rapture#cite_note-26][26][/url] The term rapture was used by Philip Doddridge[url=https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rapture#cite_note-27][27][/url] and John Gill[url=https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rapture#cite_note-28][28][/url] in their New Testament commentaries, with the idea that believers would be caught up prior to judgment on earth and Jesus' second coming.

Hate to use Wiki, but it contains footnotes on citation by scholars you can check out
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rapture




You completely ignored the controversy and stated what everyone agrees on.

All Christians agree three is a Rapture. It's in the Bible. The question is when does it occur. The idea that the Rapture takes place prior to the Second Coming is a new idea in church history.


Okay, I understand your point now. It is the old pre- mid- post-trib or concurrency issue. That would be a fruitless discussion. I am preparing for anything but obviously hope for pre-trib.
It is better to light a flamethrower than to curse the darkness- Sir Terence Pratchett
“ III stooges si viveret et nos omnes ad quos etiam probabile est mittent custard pies”
Aggie4Life02
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AG
Good news: 90% of Revelation has already taken place. The tribulation happened in the 1st century. It refers to the persecution Christians suffered under the Roman Empire.
Doc Daneeka
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Chuck Missler is awesome!!
UTExan
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Aggie4Life02 said:

Good news: 90% of Revelation has already taken place. The tribulation happened in the 1st century. It refers to the persecution Christians suffered under the Roman Empire.
On that we will disagree, other than the nature of the churches addressed. That is a preterist point of view with which I do not agree nor do I find sufficient evidence for your assertion historically.
It is better to light a flamethrower than to curse the darkness- Sir Terence Pratchett
“ III stooges si viveret et nos omnes ad quos etiam probabile est mittent custard pies”
Win At Life
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AG
He mentions the Jewish wedding but fails to say the groom returns with a "shout" when he "snatches " the bride away.

He then tells us the bride and groom return to the bridal chamber but fails to mention they're sequestered there for seven days.

He brings up Yeshua's reference to Noah as a picture of the rapture but fails to mention after Noah and his family are "removed " from the earth that they sit there seven days before the destruction comes.

Both of these seven day periods point to the rapture occurring before the seven years of tribulation.
UTExan
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Win At Life said:

He mentions the Jewish wedding but fails to say the groom returns with a "shout" when he "snatches " the bride away.

He then tells us the bride and groom return to the bridal chamber but fails to mention they're sequestered there for seven days.

He brings up Yeshua's reference to Noah as a picture of the rapture but fails to mention after Noah and his family are "removed " from the earth that they sit there seven days before the destruction comes.

Both of these seven day periods point to the rapture occurring before the seven years of tribulation.
That was my takeaway as well. Not sure he is right on that but his ideas make me re-think the rapture. Isaiah 26:20 is a rather cryptic verse which may point to the rapture of the church:
Quote:

Come, my people, enter you into your chambers, and shut your doors about you: hide yourself as it were for a little moment, until the indignation be over. Authorized KJV
It is better to light a flamethrower than to curse the darkness- Sir Terence Pratchett
“ III stooges si viveret et nos omnes ad quos etiam probabile est mittent custard pies”
ramblin_ag02
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AG
My rapture to raptor word replacement comes through again! These threads are a lot of fun

No material on this site is intended to be a substitute for professional medical advice, diagnosis or treatment. See full Medical Disclaimer.
Solo Tetherball Champ
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Raptors had feathers! See, the bible is not accurate you're believing a LIE!!!!
swimmerbabe11
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Quote:


Missler has also written the foreword to Exo-Vaticana, a book that uses evidence to draw attention to the Vatican and its practices. The book loosely presents the possibility that the Vatican is communicating with extraterrestrial life.[url=https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chuck_Missler#cite_note-aliensvat-12][12][/url]



woah.
ramblin_ag02
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AG
It's just a baby raptor. The feathers aren't big enough to see yet
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Amazing Moves
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Why does he have sun rays popping through clouds behind him?
AgDotCom
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swimmerbabe11 said:

Quote:


Missler has also written the foreword to Exo-Vaticana, a book that uses evidence to draw attention to the Vatican and its practices. The book loosely presents the possibility that the Vatican is communicating with extraterrestrial life.[url=https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chuck_Missler#cite_note-aliensvat-12][12][/url]



woah.
According to the Pope's M.I.T.-educated astronomer, it's just a matter of time.

Not sure I believe everything Chuck Missler says, but he's a smart dude and I like the way he drills down into biblical Hebrew when he gives his many of his presentations.
FTACo88-FDT24dad
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AG
I always thought the Science of God by Gerald Schroeder was a well-written exposition on astro-physics and Genesis. If you have not read it, give it a shot. He's an MIT physicist and a Hebrew Bible scholar.

The science of God
https://g.co/kgs/zzAY7c
UTExan
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Aggie4Life02 said:

UTExan said:

Revelation 20:
Quote:

4 And I saw thrones, and they sat on them, and judgment was committed to them. Then I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded for their witness to Jesus and for the word of God, who had not worshiped the beast or his image, and had not received his mark on their foreheads or on their hands. And they lived and reigned with Christ for a[a] thousand years. 5 But the rest of the dead did not live again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection. 6 Blessed and holy is he who has part in the first resurrection. Over such the second death has no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with Him a thousand years.



Right, the first Resurrection there is referring to the resurrection of Jesus. Believers have part in the first resurrection. The first resurrection is physical for Christ, but spiritual for his people. The 2nd resurrection is physical for everyone.
Spiritual for his people? Do you mean that our spirits are somehow "resurrected"? (although I can see no need for a spirit to be resurrected)


Quote:

1 Thessalonians 4:

13 But we do not want you to be uninformed, brethren, about those who are asleep, so that you will not grieve as do the rest who have no hope.14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so God will bring with Him those who have fallen asleep [k]in Jesus. 15 For this we say to you by the word of the Lord, that we who are alive [l]and remain until the coming of the Lord, will not precede those who have fallen asleep.16 For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a [m]shout, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first. 17 Then we who are alive [n]and remain will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air, and so we shall always be with the Lord. 18 Therefore comfort one another with these words.
I don't mean to niggle over doctrine, but are you saying that this resurrection is spiritual? Just confused.
It is better to light a flamethrower than to curse the darkness- Sir Terence Pratchett
“ III stooges si viveret et nos omnes ad quos etiam probabile est mittent custard pies”
Aggie4Life02
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AG
UTExan said:

Aggie4Life02 said:

UTExan said:

Revelation 20:
Quote:

4 And I saw thrones, and they sat on them, and judgment was committed to them. Then I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded for their witness to Jesus and for the word of God, who had not worshiped the beast or his image, and had not received his mark on their foreheads or on their hands. And they lived and reigned with Christ for a[a] thousand years. 5 But the rest of the dead did not live again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection. 6 Blessed and holy is he who has part in the first resurrection. Over such the second death has no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with Him a thousand years.



Right, the first Resurrection there is referring to the resurrection of Jesus. Believers have part in the first resurrection. The first resurrection is physical for Christ, but spiritual for his people. The 2nd resurrection is physical for everyone.
Spiritual for his people? Do you mean that our spirits are somehow "resurrected"? (although I can see no need for a spirit to be resurrected)


Quote:

1 Thessalonians 4:

13 But we do not want you to be uninformed, brethren, about those who are asleep, so that you will not grieve as do the rest who have no hope.14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so God will bring with Him those who have fallen asleep [k]in Jesus. 15 For this we say to you by the word of the Lord, that we who are alive [l]and remain until the coming of the Lord, will not precede those who have fallen asleep.16 For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a [m]shout, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first. 17 Then we who are alive [n]and remain will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air, and so we shall always be with the Lord. 18 Therefore comfort one another with these words.
I don't mean to niggle over doctrine, but are you saying that this resurrection is spiritual? Just confused.


The first resurrection is spiritual. "To be absent from the body is to be present with the Lord."

The 2nd resurrection is physical. Everyone, including those who are going to hell, are physically resurrected. "Multitudes who sleep in the dust of the earth will awake: some to everlasting life, others to shame and everlasting contempt."

The passage in 2 Thessalonians is referring to the 2nd resurrection.
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