There is only one way to defeat Islam...The Holy Roman Catholic Church

8,043 Views | 164 Replies | Last: 6 yr ago by Amazing Moves
BlackGoldAg2011
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AG

Glad you liked it

also, fun fact, google translate censors your Spanish post.

Quote:

At what point would you ever tell someone they were wrong because they can't read Greek?
Only when their theology is based on an English translation of a Latin translation of the Greek..
AGC
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AG
Soy la leche!

Though, we have older texts now to confirm our translations from Latin from Greek. We're not limited in our source material nearly as much as they were. But I digress.
Zobel
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AG
Yes, to translate is to change by definition.
BlackGoldAg2011
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AG
In response to OP though, no, the only ways to "defeat Islam" are for Muslims to come to a saving faith and knowledge in Jesus Christ, or the second coming of Christ
Solo Tetherball Champ
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Quote:

Which is understandable, but unfortunately not what I was talking about. At what point would you ever tell someone they were wrong because they can't read Greek?
I'm no greek scholar, so I wouldn't. But anyone who knows how to read could pick up an ESB, NIV, NKJ, or even a King James and see the differences between each translation.
americathegreat1492
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The literal reading is those who engage in homosexual acts must be put to death.
Zobel
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AG
The flip side is the Church collectively (east and west) said that the demand that only trilingual scripture is authentic (Hebrew Latin and Greek) is a heresy.

The scriptures should be translated to the native tongue of all people. The divine services should be performed in the tongue of all people. But these translations must be faithful and authentic to the tradition and meaning of the originals.
Solo Tetherball Champ
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Quote:

The difference here is in some schools of Islamic theology, the Koran in any other language than the original Arabic is no longer the Koran. Valuable, but not the Koran. that is why a number of Muslims around the world can recite the Koran in Arabic even though they don't speak Arabic. This then forces them to rely upon Imams to tell them the meaning. Which now that I type that sounds an awful lot like the days of the Bible only being available in Latin...
I'm sure that I already pissed off the Catholics enough on this thread, so I'm not going to chime in on your last sentence....

But I agree with a lot of what you've said. I think it is primarily a Sunni doctrine that holds that the Koran is only the Koran in Arabic, but I can't be sure. I'm just assuming it is them because Iran is largely Shi'a and they speak Farsi over there.

When you get down to it, that can be a great Cultural unifier:
  • Koran must be in Arabic
  • Koran is meant to be spoken/chanted/sung, etc.

Therefore, you end up with a lot of Arabic speakers (cultural unity contrasted with Christendom) and it stops the language from evolving too much, though I'm no linguist.


Quote:

But I agree with the basic premise, which is why I keep a Greek interlinear out when studying the new testament and don't just completely trust one translation.
Zobel
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Also keeping a Greek interlinear is not really a valid check for a layman against a translation. Translating is really really hard work. An art. Seeing a single word or even a sentence as a layman doesn't really necessarily help you understand.
Solo Tetherball Champ
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k2aggie07 said:

Also keeping a Greek interlinear is not really a valid check for a layman against a translation. Translating is really really hard work. An art. Seeing a single word or even a sentence as a layman doesn't really necessarily help you understand.
Agreed.

Short of learning Ancient Hebrew, Greek, etc, the best most can do is have several different translations and a browser ready to Google and an educated pastor/priest on speed dial.
Zobel
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AG
Honestly even your typical pastor/priest isn't going to be all that effective. To get a really authentic translation you need someone who works in the field or does it for a living. Some clergy do, some don't. I'm fortunate that a childhood friend of mine is a classics professor and is fluent in Greek.
BlackGoldAg2011
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k2aggie07 said:

Also keeping a Greek interlinear is not really a valid check for a layman against a translation. Translating is really really hard work. An art. Seeing a single word or even a sentence as a layman doesn't really necessarily help you understand.
agreed, by itself an interlinear is essentially useless if you don't speak Greek. but i have found it to help clarify things when used in conjunction with several lexicons and Greek concordances.
BlackGoldAg2011
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americathegreat1492 said:

The literal reading is those who engage in homosexual acts must be put to death.
yes i get that, but why is that particularly offensive over other things like the killing of apostates?
Solo Tetherball Champ
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k2aggie07 said:

Honestly even your typical pastor/priest isn't going to be all that effective. To get a really authentic translation you need someone who works in the field or does it for a living. Some clergy do, some don't. I'm fortunate that a childhood friend of mine is a classics professor and is fluent in Greek.
I just meant that many priests/pastors have studied Greek, Latin, or hebrew as part of their seminary education. Sure, many have not, which is why I italicized the word "educated".
canadiaggie
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Solo Tetherball Champ said:


Quote:

The difference here is in some schools of Islamic theology, the Koran in any other language than the original Arabic is no longer the Koran. Valuable, but not the Koran. that is why a number of Muslims around the world can recite the Koran in Arabic even though they don't speak Arabic. This then forces them to rely upon Imams to tell them the meaning. Which now that I type that sounds an awful lot like the days of the Bible only being available in Latin...
I'm sure that I already pissed off the Catholics enough on this thread, so I'm not going to chime in on your last sentence....

But I agree with a lot of what you've said. I think it is primarily a Sunni doctrine that holds that the Koran is only the Koran in Arabic, but I can't be sure. I'm just assuming it is them because Iran is largely Shi'a and they speak Farsi over there.

When you get down to it, that can be a great Cultural unifier:
  • Koran must be in Arabic
  • Koran is meant to be spoken/chanted/sung, etc.

Therefore, you end up with a lot of Arabic speakers (cultural unity contrasted with Christendom) and it stops the language from evolving too much, though I'm no linguist.


Quote:

But I agree with the basic premise, which is why I keep a Greek interlinear out when studying the new testament and don't just completely trust one translation.


The Shi'a view is that the Imam is the final interpreter of the Qur'an. Ismaili Shi'a take it to the extreme and believe that the Imam is the speaking, human version of the Qur'an.

It's debatable as to whether the Qur'an in the written form is the Qur'an at all, because the written Uthmanic Qur'an is arbitrarily ordered and grouped together. It was done so by the Caliph Uthman, with a good deal of disapproval by Muhammad's family and particularly Ali, the first Shi'a Imam.

An alternative view that I've seen in some Shi'a writings is that the Qur'an we have today is just the Arabic translation of divine speech as Muhammad experienced it... and the only way to truly experience the Qur'an for yourself is by the Imam's guidance as Muhammad's heir.
AGC
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AG
Thanks for clarifying. It's been a few years since I've read it and some of the western criticisms.
Solo Tetherball Champ
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Thanks for the insight and correction.

Blue Star to you, sir.
americathegreat1492
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BlackGoldAg2011 said:

americathegreat1492 said:

The literal reading is those who engage in homosexual acts must be put to death.
yes i get that, but why is that particularly offensive over other things like the killing of apostates?
They're both offensive. Those are just the quotes I grabbed first.
mesocosm
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"There is only one way to defeat Islam...The Holy Roman Catholic Church"

Ok then - but how do we defeat Catholicism?

schmendeler
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mesocosm said:

"There is only one way to defeat Islam...The Holy Roman Catholic Church"

Ok then - but how do we defeat Catholicism?


prohibition
747Ag
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schmendeler said:

mesocosm said:

"There is only one way to defeat Islam...The Holy Roman Catholic Church"

Ok then - but how do we defeat Catholicism?


prohibition
PacifistAg
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mesocosm said:

"There is only one way to defeat Islam...The Holy Roman Catholic Church"

Ok then - but how do we defeat Catholicism?


"With a marxist Pope!"
- TexAgs Politics Board
Doc Daneeka
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The only way to defeat Islam is to open the borders to Middle East and allow Mexican immigration. The place will be Catholic in 100 years.
kurt vonnegut
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mesocosm said:

"There is only one way to defeat Islam...The Holy Roman Catholic Church"

Ok then - but how do we defeat Catholicism?




Purple Parrot
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Amazing Moves
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It's funny when cults call each other cults.
 
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