What place do I have in your world?

3,386 Views | 62 Replies | Last: 6 yr ago by 85Photon
americathegreat1492
How long do you want to ignore this user?
I believe that there is more than one kind of truth. One kind of truth is truth about the natural world or truth about the nature of what is. This is the kind of truth science can shed light on. Another kind of truth is how you should act or be in that world. This truth is something science cannot fully answer. Based on my study, I find the mythological, big picture, of Christianity to be the pinnacle of this second kind of truth (Note: I am using the definition of myth that religious scholars use and not using it to demean religion). I have also had multiple direct experiences with the presence of Jesus Christ. In none of my study and in none of my experiences do I find it compelling to use a literalist view of the Bible or of the teachings in it. I do feel compelled to attend church because of the shared mythology and focus on how life should be lived. Where do I fit into your world? Or do I?
Serotonin
How long do you want to ignore this user?
AG
You seem like an interesting guy, welcome to the board!
Aggiefan#1
How long do you want to ignore this user?
AG
Origen????
americathegreat1492
How long do you want to ignore this user?
AstroAg17 said:

Will you share the personal experiences you've had?

I'm not sure I get the question. Are you asking for opinions of your beliefs? Are you asking what people think the role of Christianity (or your brand of it in particular) should be in society?
Sure. I literally imagine Jesus in the room with me and I literally feel his overwhelming presence and love. I will qualify this with the fact that when I am feeling really really low, like in the state of addiction to substances, I feel completely closed off inside and feel nothing. When I am feeling expanded I can feel Jesus when I focus on him.

Opinions? I am curious to hear them. I know they will vary widely.

The third: I do wonder that. Do people think that we live in a place where the archetypal structures of Christianity and near eastern religion have had significant positive influence on how we comport ourselves in society and culture? I of course have an opinion on these things. But, as I think is a most amazing thing about speech, we can state our opinions, receive feedback, and learn where we are wrong and where we are right.
kurt vonnegut
How long do you want to ignore this user?
AG
americathegreat1492 said:

Where do I fit into your world? Or do I?


No matter what you believe or don't believe, there will always be people that don't want you in their world. Personally, there is room in my world for anyone willing to respect individuals regardless of their beliefs.

Regarding your experiences (and forgive me if this sounds accousational) - How certain are you of what you saw or heard or felt? Do you entertain any doubt or considerations that your brain might have conjured these experiences? How certain are you that the God you worship is the correct one . . . Or that He even exists?
Solo Tetherball Champ
How long do you want to ignore this user?
What?
americathegreat1492
How long do you want to ignore this user?
I have no doubts that these experiences were real. There is a quality to them that I cannot put into words that distinguishes them from inner created experiences. An analogy would be like the difference between playing a song in your mind's ear vs. actually listening to the song. It's not a perfect analogy, but it's similar in the sense that both experiences "feel" different in ways that can't be put into words (and some ways that can).


Regarding God, worship, God's existence etc., I don't believe I am qualified to answer those questions to myself. I try to limit the conclusions I draw about spirituality to things I've either rationally entertained and found convincing arguments or evidence for, or things that I have direct experience with.
americathegreat1492
How long do you want to ignore this user?
How do you define decency? If morality isn't objective, is there a place in your experience where the subjectivity bottoms out into objectivity, or is everything subjective in your opinion? This is not to say that religious texts are a good source of objective morality given inconsistencies and reasonable arguments for and against interpretations. I am merely interested in how far down the subjectivity rabbit hole you find yourself.
americathegreat1492
How long do you want to ignore this user?
Would it be fair to say that the highest virtue in your morality is mutual benefit for society?
TexAgs91
How long do you want to ignore this user?
AG
americathegreat1492 said:

I believe that there is more than one kind of truth. One kind of truth is truth about the natural world or truth about the nature of what is. This is the kind of truth science can shed light on. Another kind of truth is how you should act or be in that world. This truth is something science cannot fully answer. Based on my study, I find the mythological, big picture, of Christianity to be the pinnacle of this second kind of truth (Note: I am using the definition of myth that religious scholars use and not using it to demean religion). I have also had multiple direct experiences with the presence of Jesus Christ. In none of my study and in none of my experiences do I find it compelling to use a literalist view of the Bible or of the teachings in it. I do feel compelled to attend church because of the shared mythology and focus on how life should be lived. Where do I fit into your world? Or do I?
So you think Christianity has value as a philosophy, but that's it? Not criticizing, just asking.
dds08
How long do you want to ignore this user?
AG
americathegreat1492 said:

I believe that there is more than one kind of truth. One kind of truth is truth about the natural world or truth about the nature of what is. This is the kind of truth science can shed light on. Another kind of truth is how you should act or be in that world. This truth is something science cannot fully answer. Based on my study, I find the mythological, big picture, of Christianity to be the pinnacle of this second kind of truth (Note: I am using the definition of myth that religious scholars use and not using it to demean religion). I have also had multiple direct experiences with the presence of Jesus Christ. In none of my study and in none of my experiences do I find it compelling to use a literalist view of the Bible or of the teachings in it. I do feel compelled to attend church because of the shared mythology and focus on how life should be lived. Where do I fit into your world? Or do I?
I have pondered on this very thing myself. It seems that there is universal truth that once humanity decided to sin, that the being of humans was doomed for eternity for the whole universe to witness. Because of sin, we have illness, and pestilence, wars, destruction, evil, and death.

The light that we were supposed to experience was gone from the day eve ate the forbidden fruit.

Outside of the Lord and what he tells us and what humans believe to be true, sin led to evil. There would be evil in the universe apart from the Lord. You can choose to believe there is no God, yet what exactly would exist apart from God himself?

The sins we commit are like a mark that we wear that for some reason turns everything in the universe, {including ourselves/mother nature,) meant to be good, enjoyable, pleasurable, attractive, producing of light, producing of warmth, producing of sweet smells, and harmonious sounds, and beautiful images, and love, and good, and righteousness, and peace and terrifyingly sensational experiences all boil down to hollowness and darkness, and disease, and weeping and the transformation of everything good into some counterfeit, fools-gold, sabotaged, watered down, monkey-wrenched, ratcheted, man-made abomination.

Man can only dream of what could have been if we didn't yield to the temptation of sin and chose obedience for eternity.(assuming to never sin was a given ability)

That whatever exists to be in the universe is absolute good or absolute evil or a lifeless entity (ie. dirt)
americathegreat1492
How long do you want to ignore this user?
AstroAg17 said:

I think sacrifice is more noble than mutual gain. Don't you? I award bonus points if the sacrifice is for people you don't know well.
So then sacrifice is your morality's highest virtue?

Quote:

So you think Christianity has value as a philosophy, but that's it? Not criticizing, just asking.

I think it's philosophy is incredibly important. The individual of Jesus Christ has a value beyond philosophy. Adherence to the modern form of Christianity has a value to society beyond a system of thinking.
americathegreat1492
How long do you want to ignore this user?
I think the concept of sin as to "miss the mark" is a very useful one. People may not agree the source of how we should live, or even how we should live, but those who have put some thought into life have all decided that there is a way one should live. If how we should live is the target, we can certainly miss it. I do not consider all sin to be evil, but all sin does in fact miss the target. And so, one way to live, is to become conscious of what you are aiming for, endeavor to hit the target, become conscious of when you miss, and take responsibility for missing when it inevitably happens.
dds08
How long do you want to ignore this user?
AG
It's a good thing the stars are light years away.

To protect other life out there in the universe from the living things on earth.

When people think of pit-bull canine-type species, what do they think of? Well..... humans made them that way.
BusterAg
How long do you want to ignore this user?
AG
In relation to your original question, do you believe that Jesus is the son of God? That this being you have experienced is divine, and is also the author of the Christian "philosophy" as you call it?

If you do, I would say that you are a Christian.

There are plenty of people out there that believe in Jesus, but have some suspicions regarding Biblical inerrancy. I would encourage you not to let that issue be a litmus test for your decision on whether or not to have a relationship with God.

I would say that the issue of Biblical inerrancy is not central to my faith. Whether or not the Bible is literally true doesn't impact my faith, and, honestly, I don't have a strong opinion on it either way. I think that the strongest testament to Jesus's divinity is the inherent truth in his teachings and philosophy. For me, it is easier to believe that Jesus is who he said he is because his teachings are so self-evident.
BusterAg
How long do you want to ignore this user?
AG
americathegreat1492 said:


So then sacrifice is your morality's highest virtue?


Love is morality's highest value. Love, defined as, placing the well being of other people as your highest priority.

True love involves sacrifice.

DirtDiver
How long do you want to ignore this user?

Quote:

I have also had multiple direct experiences with the presence of Jesus Christ. In none of my study and in none of my experiences do I find it compelling to use a literalist view of the Bible or of the teachings in it. I do feel compelled to attend church because of the shared mythology and focus on how life should be lived. Where do I fit into your world? Or do I?

First you fit into our world as a fellow member of the human race, which is highly praised amoungst the works of God (as is everyone else on this board). It pleases me that you know Jesus Christ experientially. I believe this is only possible due to Him being alive and real vs being a myth. In that reguard I can say that you and I both have something very much in common and that is, if Jesus is trutly a myth we both have some serious problems. I look forward to reading more of your posts.
americathegreat1492
How long do you want to ignore this user?
BusterAg said:

In relation to your original question, do you believe that Jesus is the son of God? That this being you have experienced is divine, and is also the author of the Christian "philosophy" as you call it?

If you do, I would say that you are a Christian.

There are plenty of people out there that believe in Jesus, but have some suspicions regarding Biblical inerrancy. I would encourage you not to let that issue be a litmus test for your decision on whether or not to have a relationship with God.

I would say that the issue of Biblical inerrancy is not central to my faith. Whether or not the Bible is literally true doesn't impact my faith, and, honestly, I don't have a strong opinion on it either way. I think that the strongest testament to Jesus's divinity is the inherent truth in his teachings and philosophy. For me, it is easier to believe that Jesus is who he said he is because his teachings are so self-evident.
To the first question, my answer is that I'm not sure. Again, I'm really trying to limit my conclusions about spiritual things to either direct experiences, strong empirical evidence, or solid rational argument. I am certain that characterizing Jesus as divine is an accurate description. I am not sure I would call Jesus the author of Christian philosophy, but he is likely an author. I, as yet, do not know the full extent of the relationship between the Jesus I have direct experience with and the Jesus of the bible. I have reason to think that there is a relationship, but am in the process of exploring the extent of it. Truthfully, I would much rather rely on the direct experience to draw conclusions than interpretation of texts, though I am engaging in that too.
americathegreat1492
How long do you want to ignore this user?
BusterAg said:

americathegreat1492 said:


So then sacrifice is your morality's highest virtue?


Love is morality's highest value. Love, defined as, placing the well being of other people as your highest priority.

True love involves sacrifice.


I am not sure what morality's highest virtue is. I was mostly just asking Astro what his arbitrary morality's highest virtue was in order to understand it, and ultimately, to see if there was anything underpinning it from his perspective. I guess I didn't get around to part 2.
americathegreat1492
How long do you want to ignore this user?
Thanks. I feel strongly that Christ both exists and is a myth. This is not a problem to me. One definition of myth is:

a popular belief or tradition that has grown up around something or someone; especially : one embodying the ideals and institutions of a society or segment of society.


The embodying part being the important part.
Win At Life
How long do you want to ignore this user?
AG
Did 1492 say his feelings of Jesus occurred during sober periods between substance abuses?
americathegreat1492
How long do you want to ignore this user?
Win At Life said:

Did 1492 say his feelings of Jesus occurred during sober periods between substance abuses?
? Not sure what you're asking with this. I've never been a drug abuser. They happened during periods of intense meditation. And by periods, I mean long term times in my life when I meditated daily I could literally call on Christ and he was there. Not explicitly during the meditation, but just during that time of my life in general.
americathegreat1492
How long do you want to ignore this user?
Gator03 said:

You seem like an interesting guy, welcome to the board!
Thanks!
Win At Life
How long do you want to ignore this user?
AG
Then what did you mean by "state of addiction to substances" in your second post on this thread?
americathegreat1492
How long do you want to ignore this user?
If I just went to a party and drank a lot I can't call on Christ. That's not to say it's impossible to in the state of caffeine, alcohol, or other drug use.
Win At Life
How long do you want to ignore this user?
AG
You just said you never did drugs and now your talking about alcohol abuse and doing other drugs. I'm gonna need a decoder ring to continue much conversaconversation with you.
americathegreat1492
How long do you want to ignore this user?
Quote:

You just said you never did drugs and now your talking about alcohol abuse and doing other drugs. I'm gonna need a decoder ring to continue much conversaconversation with you.
Read the bold and then read my statement a couple posts up.




For myself, I'm much harsher than others might be. Some people can get drunk once or twice a week and be fine. I consider myself addicted to a substance with any kind of regular use, even if it is sparingly. My litmus test is whether or not I regret it the next day. Regret is a useful emotion because it means I did something wrong.
Texaggie7nine
How long do you want to ignore this user?
americathegreat1492 said:

Thanks. I feel strongly that Christ both exists and is a myth. This is not a problem to me. One definition of myth is:

a popular belief or tradition that has grown up around something or someone; especially : one embodying the ideals and institutions of a society or segment of society.


The embodying part being the important part.
Well hello Jordon Peterson follower. What is your take on hell?
7nine
Page 1 of 2
 
×
subscribe Verify your student status
See Subscription Benefits
Trial only available to users who have never subscribed or participated in a previous trial.