Christ-like grace and mercy on display

915 Views | 7 Replies | Last: 6 yr ago by swimmerbabe11
PacifistAg
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Family of Facebook Shooting Victim Tells CNN They Forgive Killer and Speak of God's Love

Quote:

The thing I would take away most from my father is he taught us about God, how to fear God, how to love God and how to forgive. Each one of us forgive the killer, the murderer, we want to wrap our arms around him

I promise you I could not do that (forgive) if I didn't know God, if I didn't know him as my God and my Savior. I could not forgive that man. And I feel no animosity against him at all. I actually feel sadness in my heart for this man.
I'm reminded of the families of the Charleston shootings and their comments to Dylan Roof re: forgiving him. This is what the world needs to see from His church. It's so radical that it draws others to Him.



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The Man Who Murdered Someone In a Facebook Video Has Killed Himself

FlyFish95
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Either he did it himself or someone else would.
PacifistAg
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DryFly said:

Rightful end.
Well, yeah. The wages of sin is death. We will all meet that end because, like him and Saul (Paul) and David and Moses and any other number of murderers throughout history, we are sinners. I had prayed his end would have been much later in life for redemption sake though.
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AstroAg17 said:

Murder-suicide is the worst. Just kill yourself if you're at that point. Don't kill other people.
I totally understand this, but I have some "close to home" experience with this that changed how I view it. I don't know anything about the mental state of this person in Cleveland, but one of my closest friends from the Army had died like this. He was 26, two small kids, and was diagnosed with dementia due to two traumatic brain injuries while in the Army. As was the case w/ many soldiers, especially when the need for soldiers decreases, he was getting hammered for a minor offense and getting chaptered out. He was going to lose all medical benefits for he and his family. Given his recent diagnosis and the fact that he already suffered from severe depression and PTSD, he snapped and lashed out at those he perceived to be wronging him. It was devastating and I still struggle with his and his victim's death.

Obviously nothing justifies it. He took two lives and forever changed the lives of friends and families across the country. I also know, especially struggling with chronic depression myself, how impossible it is to look at things rationally when you're on that end of the issue.

Now, as I said above, I don't know man's history with mental illness. I just know that if we try to look at these from a rational perspective, it'll drive us crazy because it makes no sense.
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Even suicidal people are making rational choices, they're just fooled into thinking there are only two rather than the litany of others. I'd say it's more irrational to assume that this individual made an irrational choice. Disagreeing with or not understanding that choice does not make it irrational.

Further, I find the concept of rational decision making itself problematic for any Christian because it negates the presence of sin in this world influencing our decisions, or that our choices might, in fact, be sinful ones. If we have a sinful nature, it would seem that sinful choices are rational ones for us, would it not?

I think we should be mindful of that in the context of discussing these issues as Christians. This shouldn't challenge our worldview at all as we assume people are inherently sinful and recognize that mental illness isn't needed to make sinful decisions.
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Quote:

Even suicidal people are making rational choices, they're just fooled into thinking there are only two rather than the litany of others.
While this may be the case sometimes, it certainly is not always the case. One could argue it's irrational to only believe there are two choices. Often their actions are the result of mental illness or injury, as was my friend. That decision may appear rational to them, however it does not make it a rational decision, at least as we view it.


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I'd say it's more irrational to assume that this individual made an irrational choice. Disagreeing with or not understanding that choice does not make it irrational.
You are right that disagreeing does not necessarily make it irrational. When the decision-making process is being skewed by mental illness, so is their ability to view things rationally. While it appears rational to them, that does not make it a rational decision to those that do not suffer from mental illness.

I think, though, we're climbing up the same mountain from different sides though.

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Further, I find the concept of rational decision making itself problematic for any Christian because it negates the presence of sin in this world influencing our decisions, or that our choices might, in fact, be sinful ones. If we have a sinful nature, it would seem that sinful choices are rational ones for us, would it not?
Oh, I don't find it problematic at all, nor do I believe it negates the presence of sin in this world. Something can be rational and sinful, just as something can be irrational and sinful. Whether or not a decision is rational or not does not negate whether it is sinful or not.


Quote:

I think we should be mindful of that in the context of discussing these issues as Christians. This shouldn't challenge our worldview at all as we assume people are inherently sinful and recognize that mental illness isn't needed to make sinful decisions.
I don't think anyone is claiming that mental illness is needed to make sinful decisions. This man in Cleveland may have not had any history of mental illness, as I had said previously. He may have though. My friend certainly did, and that absolutely impacted his decision-making process.
swimmerbabe11
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Quote:

In one of his "Table Talks," Martin Luther himself commented: "I don't have the opinion that suicides are certainly to be damned. My reason is that they do not wish to kill themselves but are overcome by the power of the devil." Luther goes on, however, to express concern that this statement not be misunderstood or misused in a way that would downplay the danger and seriousness of this sin in the minds of people

We never know what happens in those final moments of a person's life.
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