Liturgical folks

3,728 Views | 41 Replies | Last: 7 yr ago by BusterAg
BusterAg
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AstroAg17 said:

A lot of the questions you listed either have answers or are somehow not good questions, by the way. The basic idea of general relativity (that space-time is the field of the gravity force) explains a lot of the things you asked.
Let's just take one.

Why is the speed of light the same for all observers? Why doesn't light act just like every other phenomenon in nature, where if two objects are moving relative to eachother, anything that is moving from one object towards the other will have a different relative speed to each of the objects. Why does space-time bend in order to keep this constant?

It really is quite bizarre.
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BusterAg
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AstroAg17 said:


What is the argument? That statement seems almost trivially obvious to me. To disagree with it is to believe that we can wish things into existence, or otherwise affect the universe with our feelings. That just sounds silly.
It's not so much trying to affect the universe with our feelings so much as acknowledging that the universal feelings and desires that human beings possess can be informative on how we understand the universe, and more importantly, our reality.
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BusterAg
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AstroAg17 said:


I need clarification on your last sentence . Do you mean that our feelings and desires can be informative on reality, or do you mean they can be informative about how we understand reality? I agree with the second phrasing, but not the first.

I guess technically since we're part of reality the first phrasing is true, but our feelings shouldn't be viewed as a causal mechanism for anything other than our own actions.
1) I agree that our feelings are unlikely to be a causal impact to anything outside of our own mind and actions.

2) I am not really focusing on the feelings / beliefs of an individual, but mostly arguing that it is acceptable to consider those universal desires and emotional connections of man when trying to understand both the physical universe and the reality that we live in.

Our understanding of the natural world doesn't do a perfect job of explaining all of our experiences. Why can't human beings simply live out lives of contentment? Why does there always have to be something more? Why is the attraction to music so universal? Why can I feel someone standing behind me that is staring at me? Where do all my missing socks go after I put them into the dryer?

In your reality, everything can be explained with an understanding of forces of nature, and any hypothesis to the contrary is DOA. Our decision making process is 100% deterministic based on our genetics and past experiences, even if our own consciousness protests this as impossible. But, such an approach shuts down part of our reality that might actually lead to a better understanding of the Universe, and/or a better understanding of ourselves.

There is a mostly universal belief or hope that there is something out there outside of these four dimensions we live in. We can collectively feel that something else, along with the beauty of whatever we are inside of our beings. One could chalk that up to pre-programming due to Darwinism, but that is only one possible answer. To dismiss all other possibilities outright because they are not easily explained by science feels to me like a cop out.

I am arguing that it is acceptable to believe that there IS something more outside of what we perceive our universe to be with our senses, and that there is sufficient evidence to support that belief, even if it cannot be proven. Our understanding of the universe is not sufficient enough for me to one can prove that there is not something else out there. In the event that neither side is provable, the existence of near universal beliefs along this line are acceptable evidence to consider.
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BusterAg
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AstroAg17 said:


The belief of many doesn't serve as evidence for something any more than the belief of one would.

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To dismiss all other possibilities outright because they are not easily explained by science feels to me like a cop out.
I don't dismiss other possibilities, I merely don't think think evidence supports them.
Yeah. So here is the disagreement.

It is not that a lot of people believe a certain way, so much as humans are pre-programmed from birth to have certain beliefs. That is either informative to our understanding of the universe, or it is not. The way that you approach this question will have an impact on your worldview.

On one hand, you say that this should not be considered as evidence. On the other, you say that you don't dismiss this evidence outright.

That is the entire point. It is a choice / point of view to take this position. This point of view has left many wanting for answers.
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