http://www.foxnews.com/world/2017/01/06/christians-most-persecuted-group-in-world-for-second-year-study.html

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Christians continued to be the most persecuted group across the globe in 2016, according to a study.

The upcoming report from Italian-based Center for Studies on New Religions, determined that 90,000 Christians were killed for their beliefs worldwide last year and nearly a third were at the hands of Islamic extremists like ISIS. Others were killed by state and non-state persecution, including in places like North Korea.

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The study also found that as many as 600 million Christians were prevented from practicing their faith in 2016.

The findings continue a disturbing trend from the previous year in which Christians around the world endured horrific acts of persecution, including imprisonment and beheadings.

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RetiredAg said:

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AGC said:

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So persecution must meet your personal arbitrary threshold to be considered valid? Because that's about all this highlights, other than perhaps your lack of empathy for other Christians.

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I gave two examples that people cry persecution on. Neither of those examples are actually persecution. It's not a lack of empathy. A business saying "Happy Holidays" isn't persecution. A school district cancelling Charlie Brown's Christmas isn't persecution, especially given that it was because the school couldn't justify the hours spent on preparing under new state guidelines. I'm sure there are examples of actual persecution in America, but the bulk of what we hear from those screaming loudest isn't remotely persecution.

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That's a much better response that I take no issue with, mainly because it doesn't discount the existence of it here.

AGC said:

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RetiredAg said:

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AGC said:

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So persecution must meet your personal arbitrary threshold to be considered valid? Because that's about all this highlights, other than perhaps your lack of empathy for other Christians.

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I gave two examples that people cry persecution on. Neither of those examples are actually persecution. It's not a lack of empathy. A business saying "Happy Holidays" isn't persecution. A school district cancelling Charlie Brown's Christmas isn't persecution, especially given that it was because the school couldn't justify the hours spent on preparing under new state guidelines. I'm sure there are examples of actual persecution in America, but the bulk of what we hear from those screaming loudest isn't remotely persecution.

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That's a much better response that I take no issue with, mainly because it doesn't discount the existence of it here.

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I don't deny that there may be examples of it here, but those are really few and far between. Nobody is prevented from practicing their faith freely here, as far as I'm aware. What examples of persecution are you referring to?

Martin Q. Blank said:

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Can we focus on the persecution in the OP instead of how Americans are not?

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The OP mentioned Christians being the most persecuted group on the globe. Is America not on the globe?

But yes, my apologies. We can focus on actual persecution around the globe though. What would you like to discuss regarding it?

The suffering being endured by Christians in Syria and the middle east is really sad. What's more sad is how unknown it is for most Christians in America.

k2aggie07 said:

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The suffering being endured by Christians in Syria and the middle east is really sad. What's more sad is how unknown it is for most Christians in America.

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Agreed. Do you follow Voice of the Martyrs? They do great work in chronicling persecution in these regions. Preemptive Love is another great organization.

No, I don't. But I'll be honest, I find it kind of tough to read from time to time.

Then again, they are victorious. It just difficult for us here to deal with.

k2aggie07 said:

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The suffering being endured by Christians in Syria and the middle east is really sad. What's more sad is how unknown it is for most Christians in America.

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You literally cannot talk about persecution without people crapping on the American church.

Guess who is most likely to help the persecuted abroad? Who funds most the missionaries over there?

Who's crapping on the churches?

The truth is, most Americans are a lot like me... seeing news of martyrdom, people being kidnapped or crucified, all that is kind of "over there" and difficult to imagine. The only reason it hits close to home for me is because my particular church is Antiochian. We have two bishops who were kidnapped years ago that we remember in our prayers, along with those suffering in Syria and the Middle East. Our priests have visited over there and have told us first hand about some of the incredible difficulties members of my church are going through there. And I still don't have much appetite for news.

Most people don't know because we (myself included) don't really want to. If we did, the news would report it.

k2aggie07 said:

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Who's crapping on the churches?

The truth is, most Americans are a lot like me... seeing news of martyrdom, people being kidnapped or crucified, all that is kind of "over there" and difficult to imagine. The only reason it hits close to home for me is because my particular church is Antiochian. We have two bishops who were kidnapped years ago that we remember in our prayers, along with those suffering in Syria and the Middle East. Our priests have visited over there and have told us first hand about some of the incredible difficulties members of my church are going through there. And I still don't have much appetite for news.

Most people don't know because we (myself included) don't really want to. If we did, the news would report it.

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Sorry. I think that's my fault. By pointing out that this makes what we call persecution in the US look silly, some took that as me crapping on the church in America. It wasn't my intent, but clearly some took it that way. I thought it would just help put things in perspective, but I guess I can see how some could take it otherwise.

I certainly don't think my comment justified MQB's personal attack though.

We pray weekly for persecuted Christians around the globe. Our priest is very thorough in telling us about all the ways Christians are persecuted abroad.

And yes any Christian who says they're persecuted because someone says Happy Holidays is being silly. But there is plenty of persecution in the US - the millions ripped to shreds in the womb come to mind.

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But there is plenty of persecution in the US - the millions ripped to shreds in the womb come to mind.

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That seems like a very broad definition of persecution. That's like saying the person killed in an armed robbery is being persecuted. Murder? Yes. Persecution? I don't see it.

I guess all there is to do is talk about how Americans are not persecuted. As RetiredAg said, what else is there to discuss?

Martin Q. Blank said:

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I guess all there is to do is talk about how Americans are not persecuted. As RetiredAg said, what else is there to discuss?

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Actually I said: "We can focus on actual persecution around the globe though. What would you like to discuss regarding it?"

Preferably we can do this without personal attacks though. Deal? What would you like to discuss regarding persecution around the globe, outside the US?

Is it that hard to come up with something? Someone tells you their daughter is sick with cancer and your response is "You know some people think they have cancer, but they really don't. What would you like to discuss regarding your daughter?"

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Is it that hard to come up with something?

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You tell me. It's your thread and you seem to take exception to the course it took. So please, steer us back to towards the direction you would like us to go. And do so without personal attacks or horribly flawed analogies.

RetiredAg said:

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Is it that hard to come up with something?

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You tell me.

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Yes, it is...for some.

wbt5845 said:

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We pray weekly for persecuted Christians around the globe. Our priest is very thorough in telling us about all the ways Christians are persecuted abroad.

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That's really great.

Should I start a companion thread about people who are persecuted BY Christians?

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What's more sad is how unknown it is for most Christians in America.

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That's pretty much by choice, though, as the news and data on religious persecution (for any religious beliefs) is readily available and easily so through official channels for most denominations. I think a large part of the American population, Christian or otherwise, tends to not want to gaze too far past the borders. Which is certainly also true in many other parts of the world. So some Americans channel their energy into a phony war on Christmas , which must sound strange to Christians living in certain other areas of the world. Big difference between first world and third world problems.

Note that the definition of globe is a spherical three dimensional representation of Earth or any other celestial body. Just thought that was worth mentioning since the term globe was incorrectly used above. Suffering and persecution can be worldwide, around the world, on Earth, but really not around or on the globe.

Marco Esquandolas said:

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Should I start a companion thread about people who are persecuted BY Christians?

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I wouldn't bother. Compared to some others, Christians aren't so bad. . . . That's less of compliment than it sounds like. Most people are *******s.

Martin Q. Blank said:

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RetiredAg said:

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Is it that hard to come up with something?

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You tell me.

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Yes, it is...for some.

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It's your thread. What do you want to discuss? What direction do you want the discussion to go? It's not that hard. You personally attacked me because I apparently went in a direction you didn't appreciate, so please, provide some guidance here.

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That's pretty much by choice, though, as the news and data on religious persecution (for any religious beliefs) is readily available and easily so through official channels for most denominations. I think a large part of the American population, Christian or otherwise, tends to not want to gaze too far past the borders. Which is certainly also true in many other parts of the world. So some Americans channel their energy into a phony war on Christmas , which must sound strange to Christians living in certain other areas of the world. Big difference between first world and third world problems.

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Agree with this. Tribalism leads us to put blinders on. As for the phony war on Christmas and claims of persecution in the US, I think much of it stems from Christians knowing deep down that as followers of Christ, we should expect suffering. We should expect to be hated and reviled by the world. But, we live in a cushy nerf-world and I think we want to feel as though we are suffering for His sake in the States.

Before anyone says my comment is an attack on the American church or America in general, tribalism doesn't affect just Americans. We see it around the world.

RetiredAg said:

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k2aggie07 said:

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Who's crapping on the churches?

The truth is, most Americans are a lot like me... seeing news of martyrdom, people being kidnapped or crucified, all that is kind of "over there" and difficult to imagine. The only reason it hits close to home for me is because my particular church is Antiochian. We have two bishops who were kidnapped years ago that we remember in our prayers, along with those suffering in Syria and the Middle East. Our priests have visited over there and have told us first hand about some of the incredible difficulties members of my church are going through there. And I still don't have much appetite for news.

Most people don't know because we (myself included) don't really want to. If we did, the news would report it.

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Sorry. I think that's my fault. By pointing out that this makes what we call persecution in the US look silly, some took that as me crapping on the church in America. It wasn't my intent, but clearly some took it that way. I thought it would just help put things in perspective, but I guess I can see how some could take it otherwise.

I certainly don't think my comment justified MQB's personal attack though.

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My comment isn't really directed at anyone in particular. I just hear this all the time. However what always seems to be overlooked is how generous the American church and Americans in general are. Yes we get upset over stupid things. Guilty as charged.

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I gave two examples that people cry persecution on. Neither of those examples are actually persecution. It's not a lack of empathy. A business saying "Happy Holidays" isn't persecution.

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How about a Christian (or Muslim for that matter) either participating in a religious event that violates her long standing religious convictions, or being fined $100,000 and forced out of business? Does that qualify as persecution?

letters at random said:

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I gave two examples that people cry persecution on. Neither of those examples are actually persecution. It's not a lack of empathy. A business saying "Happy Holidays" isn't persecution.

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How about a Christian (or Muslim for that matter) either participating in a religious event that violates her long standing religious convictions, or being fined $100,000 and forced out of business? Does that qualify as persecution?

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No

diehard03 said:

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How about a Christian (or Muslim for that matter) either participating in a religious event that violates her long standing religious convictions, or being fined $100,000 and forced out of business? Does that qualify as persecution?

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It depends on how broad you want to make "participating" in order to feel persecuted. For me personally, I can see being forced to marry a gay person as being labeled persecution. I have a hard time seeing that baking a cake for one really qualifies.

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Except that nobody is declining to bake cakes for gay people. They're declining to bake cakes that will be used in a religious ceremony that violates their longstanding religious conviction.


I'm waiting for the first news story of somebody walking into a flower shop to buy a rose and the shopowner saying, "hey! You're gay! We don't serve your kind here!"

letters at random said:

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Dr. Watson said:

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letters at random said:

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I gave two examples that people cry persecution on. Neither of those examples are actually persecution. It's not a lack of empathy. A business saying "Happy Holidays" isn't persecution.

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How about a Christian (or Muslim for that matter) either participating in a religious event that violates her long standing religious convictions, or being fined $100,000 and forced out of business? Does that qualify as persecution?

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No

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Got it. So the state can force people to be involved in religious ceremonies that violate their longstanding religious convictions, and that's NOT persecution. Glad to know it. I was totally confused by that. I guess we have to actually send them to jail or lop their heads off, not merely take away their money and livelihood, for that to count as persecution.

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Those people are violating the law as businesspeople. No one is infringing on their personal freedom to religion. But as a business they are required to provide equal service to customers (minis exceptional individual acts or behavior that reasonably constitute a danger or distraction to the business).