Supremecy - ecumenical council or Pope?

1,328 Views | 12 Replies | Last: 7 yr ago by Zobel
Martin Q. Blank
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Catholics, who has absolute supremacy in the church - an ecumenical council or the Pope?
booboo91
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Martin Q. Blank said:

Catholics, who has absolute supremacy in the church - an ecumenical council or the Pope?
Don't understand where you are going. The (2) usually go hand in hand.

Jesus gave authority to church- Apostles- Apostles handed this down (layin of hands) to the Bishops. the Bishops recognized the authority of Peter's chair (Authority of Pope).

The Bishops/Pope attend the councils and make decisions. The majority may agree but not everyone agrees with the councils decisions. If you are upset with the decision- Back to Jesus- he gave authority to church. See Judiaziers and Aranisim and other Heresies through the centuries.
Zobel
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AG
Yeah the popes are in charge. Just ask em!
BusterAg
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AG
Protestant view: Jesus and the Bible.
Furlock Bones
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AG
BusterAg said:

Protestant view: Jesus and the Bible (which was formed through councils, early theologians and tradition, but we ignore that now)
Martin Q. Blank
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booboo91 said:

Martin Q. Blank said:

Catholics, who has absolute supremacy in the church - an ecumenical council or the Pope?
Don't understand where you are going. The (2) usually go hand in hand.
In the unusual circumstance that they differ, who has absolute supremacy?
jkag89
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Martin Q. Blank said:

booboo91 said:

Martin Q. Blank said:

Catholics, who has absolute supremacy in the church - an ecumenical council or the Pope?
Don't understand where you are going. The (2) usually go hand in hand.
In the unusual circumstance that they differ, who has absolute supremacy?
Since the situation hasn't occurred it is one of those aspects that hasn't been settled. Maybe you should pose the question to Frankie, he might convene an ecumenical council to settle the question.
Martin Q. Blank
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jkag89 said:

Martin Q. Blank said:

booboo91 said:

Martin Q. Blank said:

Catholics, who has absolute supremacy in the church - an ecumenical council or the Pope?
Don't understand where you are going. The (2) usually go hand in hand.
In the unusual circumstance that they differ, who has absolute supremacy?
Since the situation hasn't occurred it is one of those aspects that hasn't been settled. Maybe you should pose the question to Frankie, he might convene an ecumenical council to settle the question.
You don't know your church history.
jkag89
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I guess I don't, help me here and point me exactly to that area you want to discuss.
Martin Q. Blank
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Western Schism
Pope Urban VI & Pope Clement VII
Council of Pisa
Council of Constance
Pope Martin V
Council of Basel
Beginning of the Papacy
First Vatican Council
AgLiving06
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Furlock Bones said:

BusterAg said:

Protestant view: Jesus and the Bible (which was formed through councils, early theologians and tradition, but we ignore that now)


To be fair...The Pope was a great teacher in how to blaze your own path
jkag89
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Western Schism was driven by politics, not theology. Do I know the minutiae of this period? No. Where in this rather short period was a valid ecumenical council trumped by any of the papal claiments?

Beginning of the Papacy - ? Exactly what are you alluding to here?

First Vatican Council was the ecumenical council in which defined papal primacy and infallibility. I'm unaware that it settled the question in which you posed in your OP.
booboo91
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Martin Q. Blank said:


In the unusual circumstance that they differ, who has absolute supremacy?
The first among equals, the Head of the House of Representatives (K2 example). That is why you have leaders. The chair of Peter. That is why Jesus gave his church authority.

What I find amusing, is folks think there has to be 100% agreement- and yet we see all through history, there rarely is: disciples leave Jesus (did not agree with Jesus- John 6), Judiaziers do not agree with Apostles and St. Paul (Acts and Galatians and Paul's on going disputs), Arianism, ect.

Not all agree But the authority remains.
Zobel
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AG
I posted this in another thread with the same topic by mistake.

Eugenius IV issued the papal bull Etsi non dubitemus, which says the pope has superiority over the councils. Question closed, at least for Roman Catholics. I have tried to find a translation or even latin version of it, but I can't. So, going off of what I can find people say it says -- not much to go on.

Look at it this way. Old councils were called (both by emperors and Popes) but the Council's ruling was what "mattered", given that the church (bothclergy and laity) accepted it. Pope Eugene's bull made Councils non-authoritative, because only the Pope's ruling mattered. No ecumenical council can possibly happen under this structure, because it won't be a council...just an advisory committee.

Edit: And truthfully, the answer to the OP's question is "neither".

The test of a councils ecumenicity-ness is not who attends (some were smaller than others) or who calls it, or what they say, or how they say it. Some councils were self-referential in their authority, while the canons of others were not. The test is simply Truth, and that is determined only by the Spirit of God.
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